OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

[simple]

Better than your situation shack in the woods with a tinfoil hat. I mean come on. The guy with the GED education above is smarter than you at understanding how infrastructure funding and allocation goes in this state. You sure you live here?

[summit]

Be sure to vote for the proposed tax increases/TABOR amendments... Either that or leave. That's one good way to reduce the state's population. I hear Jarbidge, NV has very little planned infrastructure improvement, and space to accommodate several other people.

I'd consider voting yes for gas tax for infrastructure. I'll vote for specific things for infrastructure.

But I'll fight repealing TABOR tooth and nail because there are a shit-ton of tax-and-spend fuckheads who all want to implement the greatest social spending plans they got from the good idea fairy and there has to be some way to keep things reigned in. The fact that suicidal Amendment 69 got as many votes as it did doesn't make me want to trust any more money to public control without specific earmarks and controls.

So should we spend more when we aren't even maximizing our existing infrastructure because we refuse to enact non-construction based improvements like traffic restrictions, rule enforcement, and new safety requirements that could offer good problem solving and safety gains?

What do we get for infrastructure spending? Does it encourage me to want to throw more money at the problem?

Retarded ideas like the $1.2 billion dollar "let's bury I-70 and put a park over it" project in NE Denver that nobody wants and has massive associated costs not included in the big number. It is a prime example of wasting at ton of money on unnecessarily expensive, complex, projects that result in lengthy traffic-disrupting construction. I'd put that "sometimes almost an extra toll lane" in the same bucket. Yea we can call it a mixed success... but how long did it take to add 1/2 a lane along 13 miles? 5+ years of construction traffic! And then everyone goes "well things got better!" Yea... the construction zone went away! Can I piss in your cheerios, add some milk, and tell you it's an improvement?

And then I see the cluster in the Breck/Frisco expansion...

Yea I want more infrastructure... yea I'm willing to throw down $, I'm willing to support rule changes to make contractors work earlier in the year... but I want to see better execution and results before I vote big $, and I sure don't want to write a blank check for whatever the gov wants to spend on.

[stfu&gbtw]

I'd consider voting yes for gas tax for infrastructure. I'll vote for specific things for infrastructure.

But I'll fight repealing TABOR tooth and nail because there are a shit-ton of tax-and-spend fuckheads who all want to implement the greatest social spending plans they got from the good idea fairy and there has to be some way to keep things reigned in. The fact that suicidal Amendment 69 got as many votes as it did doesn't make me want to trust any more money to public control without specific earmarks and controls.

So should we spend more when we aren't even maximizing our existing infrastructure because we refuse to enact non-construction based improvements like traffic restrictions, rule enforcement, and new safety requirements that could offer good problem solving and safety gains?

What do we get for infrastructure spending? Does it encourage me to want to throw more money at the problem?

Retarded ideas like the $1.2 billion dollar "let's bury I-70 and put a park over it" project in NE Denver that nobody wants and has massive associated costs not included in the big number. It is a prime example of wasting at ton of money on unnecessarily expensive, complex, projects that result in lengthy traffic-disrupting construction. I'd put that "sometimes almost an extra toll lane" in the same bucket. Yea we can call it a mixed success... but how long did it take to add 1/2 a lane along 13 miles? 5+ years of construction traffic! And then everyone goes "well things got better!" Yea... the construction zone went away! Can I piss in your cheerios, add some milk, and tell you it's an improvement?

And then I see the cluster in the Breck/Frisco expansion...

Yea I want more infrastructure... yea I'm willing to throw down $, I'm willing to support rule changes to make contractors work earlier in the year... but I want to see better execution and results before I vote big $, and I sure don't want to write a blank check for whatever the gov wants to spend on.

Vote. Campaign for candidates. Run for office. Only YOU can create a government that serves your interests.

[summit]

Vote. Campaign for candidates. Run for office. Only YOU can create a government that serves your interests.

Rest assured I vote. I advocate. However, I am no politician.

[stfu&gbtw]

Everyone has their own CBA on government service. I'm no politician either. But that doesn't change the fact that asking someone to do something for us is a relatively ineffective substitute for doing it ourselves.

[summit]

Everyone has their own CBA on government service. I'm no politician either. But that doesn't change the fact that asking someone to do something for us is a relatively ineffective substitute for doing it ourselves.

Is that known as the Other tragedy of the commons?

[doebedoe]

Everyone likes to bitch about the efficiency of the government. Very few people want to dedicate their life to working in it/with it extensively to make it better -- all for below-market wages (for professional staff) and a public that mostly thinks what you do is shit.

[simple]

...Find me a politician with real power who doesn't have their strings pulled by big money capitalists....

[stfu&gbtw]

At some point, this is a zero-sum game.

[simple]

Exactly. You may do well in the rat race but you are still a rat in a maze chasing that cheedar.

I rather be car free but my Lincoln Town car gets me laid.

[doebedoe]

...Find me a politician with real power who doesn't have their strings pulled by big money capitalists....

Find me a politician who is the person who actually estimates project costs, manages vendors, and ensures a projects success. They don't. That's what civil servants are for. You want those projects to run better, get better civil servants and insulate them more from crazy politicians.

[Danno]

Everyone likes to bitch about the efficiency of the government. Very few people want to dedicate their life to working in it/with it extensively to make it better -- all for below-market wages (for professional staff) and a public that mostly thinks what you do is shit.

I work in state government, and almost everyone I have encountered here is a smart dedicated public servant. Government isn't perfect, but it's far from the retarded cesspool that people like to think it is. I have nothing to do with CDOT, and maybe those guys are idiots, I don't know, but until you walk a mile in their shoes and understand the challenges they face with the budgetary constraints they have, you're just another bloviating asshole.

I will cop to being a bloviating asshole on occasion as well, because who doesn't bitch about organizations -- public or private -- that don't serve their needs and don't seem to do what you'd think they should be doing. But I always recognize that I'm just full of hot air when I do so.

And until people like Summit are willing to vote to overturn TABOR, we're fucked, plain and simple. Governments need the power to tax and adjust taxes as needed; our control on that is supposed to be voting them out. Direct democracy does not work. There's a reason it wasn't part of our federal constitution.

[Soups]

I work in state government, and almost everyone I have encountered here is a smart dedicated public servant. Government isn't perfect, but it's far from the retarded cesspool that people like to think it is. I have nothing to do with CDOT, and maybe those guys are idiots, I don't know, but until you walk a mile in their shoes and understand the challenges they face with the budgetary constraints they have, you're just another bloviating asshole.

I will cop to being a bloviating asshole on occasion as well, because who doesn't bitch about organizations -- public or private -- that don't serve their needs and don't seem to do what you'd think they should be doing. But I always recognize that I'm just full of hot air when I do so.

And until people like Summit are willing to vote to overturn TABOR, we're fucked, plain and simple. Governments need the power to tax and adjust taxes as needed; our control on that is supposed to be voting them out. Direct democracy does not work. There's a reason it wasn't part of our federal constitution.

x1,000

In the same shoes as Danno and agree with everything stated. Everyone I work with is top notch and very smart. The large majority love what they do and do it as a public service above anything else. Very rarely do we get praise and just about 100% of the time we will get shit on, both from politicians and the general public. Regarding Tabor people would be amazed at how much more could be done effectively with out it, it's a big hinderance that sounds cool on paper but is very limiting with the exponential growth the state is seeing.

[simple]

Get rid of politicians and the general public!!! If you don't own land get out! Ride more bicycles! Learn how to speak Mexican! We don't need help! MLK worked for the CIA!!

[doebedoe]

x1,000

In the same shoes as Danno and agree with everything stated. Everyone I work with is top notch and very smart. The large majority love what they do and do it as a public service above anything else. Very rarely do we get praise and just about 100% of the time we will get shit on, both from politicians and the general public. Regarding Tabor people would be amazed at how much more could be done effectively with out it, it's a big hinderance that sounds cool on paper but is very limiting with the exponential growth the state is seeing.

And x1000. I'm in the same shoes (state government but not transportation.)

I will cop to the fact no everyone I work with is top notch and incredibly talented. (Newsflash: neither are all workers in the private sector.) The vast majority are well meaning public servants. And the higher up you go, the more common incredibly talented, hard-working people are. It is much more meritocratic than any private sector company I've worked for.

[summit]

I've worked as a fed. I've worked for a county. I've been in the private sector and contracted. I still serve a county. I work in the non-profit sector.

The fact that there are many competent dedicated public servants cannot always overcome the systemic problems of government and its bureaucracy/contracting, and whacky politicians. Thus I do not trust the government while I still applaud its better civil servants.

TABOR should only be repealed if it is replaced with a highly restrictive system. The tendency of taxes and governmental spending is to TREND up and up. I support the idea of TABOR which is taxes should be fixed to inflation and population except by referendum. We pass referendums all the time. I look at my county and can't remember the last time they voted down a tax increase, mill levy, etc, even stupid ones. I vote yes sometimes, no sometimes. But it keeps me from paying literally twice as much in taxes to the state. If I wanted that, I'll move to CA. You can. Tahoe is deep.

Yea the founding fathers didn't have direct referendum on national taxes, but states and cities did. And there were no income taxes either back then. It was all ad valorum (duties, tarrifs, excise tax, and levies) for the feds. It wasn't until 1943 when income tax became the number 1 source of government revenue, and it has remained so ever since... seems like our control over the state should increase with our financial burden to the state.

But there are smart ways to modify TABOR. Here is an article from today:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...o-change-tabor

[fastfred]

...Find me a politician with real power who doesn't have their strings pulled by big money capitalists....

feel free to read todays denver post editorial, it made me sick, they made excuses for senator gardner not meeting with his consitiuents in a town hall meeting, but they go on to mention that senator gardner met with consittuients like "colorado heath care association, AARP, and CEO's from colorado's tech companies" WTF! Those are are voters? Those are people paying the poltiicians off, they are lobbyists and lawyers. pretty sad on the denver posts part, at least bennent was on an all expense paid vacation to cuba to sort out deals for big business corporations that's ok too

[fastfred]

At some point, this is a zero-sum game.

right, with your new york city shit, 15 bucks to drive a car through a tunnel 85 bucks to drive a semi through the same tunnel

this is good stuff keep it up guys

[Danno]

. The tendency of taxes and governmental spending is to TREND up and up. [/url]

History doesn't bear that out. If it did we would have reached the 90% tax bracket long before TABOR became law.

That said, I'll read the article you posted when I get a chance. I'm not against good tax policy, who wants to give away all their money, but TABOR is not such a policy.

[WTF is dat]

The work on 36 was a patch job for what CDOT actually promised voters (and will never deliver on)... light rail to Boulder and Longmont.

Uhhh that was RTD, not CDOT.

2 totally different entities.

[Name Redacted]

Uhhh that was RTD, not CDOT.

2 totally different entities.

They are both part of the same system and work together.

TREX was RTD and CDOT for instance: http://www.rtd-denver.com/FF-SoutheastCorridor.shtml

[WTF is dat]

Yeah I understand that they occasionally work together but my comment was addressing the claim that CDOT promised voters lightrail to boulder and Longmont.

CDOT never promised voters that, RTD did, was all I was saying

[Danno]

Yeah I understand that they occasionally work together but my comment was addressing the claim that CDOT promised voters lightrail to boulder and Longmont.

CDOT never promised voters that, RTD did, was all I was saying

And some of the work on 36 was a patch job for what RTD promised voters.

[WTF is dat]

But I'll fight repealing TABOR tooth and nail because there are a shit-ton of tax-and-spend fuckheads who all want to implement the greatest social spending plans they got from the good idea fairy

I'd put that "sometimes almost an extra toll lane" in the same bucket. Yea we can call it a mixed success... but how long did it take to add 1/2 a lane along 13 miles? 5+ years of construction traffic! And then everyone goes "well things got better!" Yea... the construction zone went away! Can I piss in your cheerios, add some milk, and tell you it's an improvement?

That is fine, if we can't work to repeal TABOR, Colorado will just stay at 49th in the nation for K-12 spending as a percentage of personal income. We can just live with higher education funding down more than 30% per resident student from where it was in the 90's. We can make do with our university funding at 48th in the nation as a percentage of personal income. That way we don't have to repeal Tabor, so that the big bad government doesn't see any more of our money!!!


Of course, the most ironic part of this is you citing the I-70 P3 express lane as an example of the failure of government construction without realizing the I-70 expansion was so half assed because of TABOR. I'm sure the irony is lost on you, but TABOR is the reason why we had to settle for such a half assed measure through that section of I70.


And, you are completely forgetting that a major part of that project was boring the tunnels so that if we ever did want to expand I70 in a meaningful way that it would be easier to do, and the fact that the express lanes have been proven as effective in reducing traffic -


http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/05...nes-cdot-says/

[summit]

That is fine, if we can't work to repeal TABOR, Colorado will just stay at 49th in the nation for K-12 spending as a percentage of personal income. We can just live with higher education funding down more than 30% per resident student from where it was in the 90's. We can make do with our university funding at 48th in the nation as a percentage of personal income. That way we don't have to repeal Tabor, so that the big bad government doesn't see any more of our money!!!

Weird... my county has no trouble passing large funding initiatives for our schools and our community college... maybe someone should get some more school funding on the ballot?

But you don't want to talk about the potential for abusive tax/spend cycles if we eliminate TABOR. Maybe we can have huge state taxes like CA? Oh wait... you'll tell me to just vote those people out... because the ballot works for that but not for tax initiatives?

And, you are completely forgetting that a major part of that project was boring the tunnels so that if we ever did want to expand I70 in a meaningful way that it would be easier to do, and the fact that the express lanes have been proven as effective in reducing traffic -

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/05...nes-cdot-says/

Seriously. You are the type of person I was referring to when I asked "Can I pee in your cherios, then add some more milk and tell you I've improved things?"

From the article "Compared to the three previous winters’ average peak travel time, that’s about three minutes shorter."

WOW! It is 3 minutes faster than when it was a fucking construction zone!!! They really think everyone is stupid to blatantly admit they used construction traffic in their data. Or they are stupid. Or both.