OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

[simple]

They are just waiting for smart cars to fix all the problems so they don't have to. Remember?

They need smart trucks first. Then moron drivers will not be such pussies about passing them.

[Lightning1911]

^ they're really doubling down on the half a lane strategy... Makes sense... obviously, the road that they claim is so treacherous that no one could properly maintain it, and mostly driven on by rwd cars with bald tires, is best served by lanes that are too narrow to meet federal highway specifications, and offer no shoulder for emergency stopping or access. Brilliant strategy.

#ColoradoNative

[Name Redacted]

They need smart trucks first. Then moron drivers will not be such pussies about passing them.

A Smart truck wouldn't try to drive I70 on a weekend in a snow storm. It would park at Sapp Bros and wait it out.

[WTF is dat]

I think you're biased because you don't know what real success looks like. Sure, the PPSL helps a little... And if they'd laid another 3' of asphalt, they'd have a real lane that could be open all the time, that could always be generating toll income, and that they wouldn't have to pay someone to administer accessibility. The overall impact of the project would have been nearly identical, and the incremental cost for completion of the addition lane width would have been tiny compared to the overall cost of the project. Instead, we pay 95% of the cost, and suffer 100% of the impact for a half assed solution that doesn't even really fix today's problems, let alone the problems we'll have 5 years from now. So while it helps a little, in the long run the PPSL is a collosal waste of money that guarantees there will be another major road project in the area long before the road would otherwise require significant maintenance. Talk about so close, and yet so far.

Agreed, although it seems like you fail to understand that there was no money for the additional 10' - 12' feet of asphalt that would have been required (per national highway standards) for a permanent third lane. The P3 was the only workable solution immediately available.

I understand your frustration, but the fact of the matter is that the tolled express lane was CDOT's best option, given budget constraints.

Once again, are you opposed to incremental improvements along I-70?

[hatchgreenchile]

Shoulder lane was meant to be a band aid, and I think it's working slightly better than expected.
Bring on ze sumart karz

[wolfelot]

In my observation the toll lane has been a positive.

[stfu&gbtw]

Agreed, although it seems like you fail to understand that there was no money for the additional 10' - 12' feet of asphalt that would have been required (per national highway standards) for a permanent third lane. The P3 was the only workable solution immediately available.

I understand your frustration, but the fact of the matter is that the tolled express lane was CDOT's best option, given budget constraints.

Once again, are you opposed to incremental improvements along I-70?

I'm opposed to financially redundant improvement projects along I70. The 232-243 corridor is only 3' away from forming three normal lanes. 12' would create a full shoulder as well, and as that's not a requirement for the existing project, it's incredibly obtuse to state it would be a requirement for another project. There are plenty of 11 mile stretches of unshouldered roadway in this country that are open for more than 72 days/year.

This is just more of the same attempt at justifying the unjustifiable. CDOT spent $75+M building a road that does not meet basic specifications. Either it's CDOT's intent to complete the full project before the required equipment and crew are redeployed, meaning that there will only be an incremental additional cost for completing a one year project over two years... Or the project will be completed at a much later date, meaning that all the costs for assembling and staging equipment and crews will be fully duplicated. In either case, in the long run, this project will have only succeeded in wasting money.

[simple]

Roads are icy as fuck

[WTF is dat]

I'm opposed to financially redundant improvement projects along I70. The 232-243 corridor is only 3' away from forming three normal lanes. 12' would create a full shoulder as well, and as that's not a requirement for the existing project, it's incredibly obtuse to state it would be a requirement for another project. There are plenty of 11 mile stretches of unshouldered roadway in this country that are open for more than 72 days/year.

Right, but not interstate highways. I-70 is an interstate highway and therefore must have 12' of shoulder.

The reason a full shoulder is not required for the now finished p3 is that the express lane is not technically considered a lane, and it serves as a shoulder when the lane is not open. This is why the express lane is only open 72 days a year. It's not really a "lane".

[stfu&gbtw]

Right, but not interstate highways. I-70 is an interstate highway and therefore must have 12' of shoulder.

The reason a full shoulder is not required for the now finished p3 is that the express lane is not technically considered a lane, and it serves as a shoulder when the lane is not open. This is why the express lane is only open 72 days a year. It's not really a "lane".

For someone trying to sound very familiar with this stuff, you don't seem to be very familiar with this stuff... Minimum shoulder width is 10' on the outside and 4' on the inside, and there are so many exceptions granted to that standard that it isn't even worth discussing. What is worth discussing is the minimum lane width of 12', which the PPSL nearly adheres to, but doesn't, resulting in its classification as a "shoulder".

Good stuff, that.

[WTF is dat]

For someone trying to sound very familiar with this stuff, you don't seem to be very familiar with this stuff... Minimum shoulder width is 10' on the outside and 4' on the inside, and there are so many exceptions granted to that standard that it isn't even worth discussing. What is worth discussing is the minimum lane width of 12', which the PPSL nearly adheres to, but doesn't, resulting in its classification as a "shoulder".

Good stuff, that.

Through mountainous areas shoulder width is permitted at 12' total

[stfu&gbtw]

Through mountainous areas shoulder width is permitted at 12' total

Lol... In many areas, shoulders are permitted at a 0' total.

#ColoradoNative

[wolfelot]

Zero issues for me up or down to WP today. Great day!

[stfu&gbtw]

Skiing has been great at AB and basically zero traffic problems... It's been a great week.

No 183 BROS yet though...

[Danno]

Lol... In many areas, shoulders are permitted at a 0' total.

#ColoradoNative

on interstates?

[stfu&gbtw]

0' is an exaggeration... but inches would not be. The standard is 10/4, and in practice, they'll create an exception for almost any reason - accessibility, environmental, whatever. It's not plausible to say that completing the third lane would require 15' of additional paving just because that's what's written down.

[This End Up]

Armchair civil engineering is fun

[stfu&gbtw]

Armchair civil engineering is fun

Obviously, paving an 11 mile long, completely flat stretch of I70 is just too complex for anyone to understand. Best leave it to the experts at CDOT.

#ColoradoNative

[WTF is dat]

Lol... In many areas, shoulders are permitted at a 0' total.

0' is an exaggeration... but inches would not be. The standard is 10/4, and in practice, they'll create an exception for almost any reason - accessibility, environmental, whatever. It's not plausible to say that completing the third lane would require 15' of additional paving just because that's what's written down.

#ColoradoNative

Now you are just making shit up to support your narrative.

10' and 4' is the standard through non mountainous areas, correct. But, 12' is permitted through mountainous areas.

It's only open for a limited number of days per year because that's the condition the FHWA has put on it. "Just getting the Feds to allow a 0' shoulder" sounds real easy; not unlike how RTD "should've just gotten the railroads to give them the right of way to Boulder." The real world is harder. Who knows if that can change, though, depending on how well operations go (and so far it's working really well). There's no precedent for a lane like that, so it's sort of guess and check

As to your claim that 3 feet would have been enough to bring it up to full federal standards, no it wouldn't.... and "just adding 3 feet" isn't as easy as it sounds in a narrow mountain corridor. You're talking many millions of dollars, new walls and structures, etc. Have you rafted Clear Creek in the spring? After you do that, lets discuss how easy it is to find an additional 3 feet through there (on the super cheap).

[stfu&gbtw]

^ Hard to believe you whiners are the descendants of people who walked here.

[WTF is dat]

^ Hard to believe you whiners are the descendants of people who walked here.

Nope, I'm not whining. I'm actually quite happy with the new express lane, and as others in this thread have noted, it seems to have actually helped traffic somewhat on the weekends. It will be even more helpful in the summertime, when traffic is actually worse.

If anything, it seems like you are the one whining, with your constant bitching about CDOT and Colorado natives.

I am simply being realistic about what CDOT has accomplished. You are making shit up, the most egregious lie you made up was that the Feds regularly allow sections of interstate highway with 0' shoulders.

[fastfred]

ok you bitches the shoulder is four or five feet wide in glenwood canyon and to top it off some guys awning on the side of his rv decided to come loose fucking thing was blowing in the breeze and getting totally mangled expected to see a piece come loose and impale someone but for some messed up reason it didn't

most people didn't have a problem getting too close to him but I stayed way the fuck back to watch the massacre. Since there wasn't a shoulder big enough (my guess) he didn't stop till we got out of the canyon. Classic I70 classic

[DasBlunt]

The toll lane is compliant because it is only open a small number of days.

Again, they had some creek erosion east of 40 and needed to fix it and upgrade a bit.

I don't get what is wrong with a longterm workable fix in such a tight location in addition to the Idaho Springs tunnel work? Did you want the double decker highway there? there really is no room unless a full reroute and people own the land on the other side of the creek.

It has really helped, well that and better plow crews. Seems hit and miss year after year

[stfu&gbtw]

Nope, I'm not whining. I'm actually quite happy with the new express lane, and as others in this thread have noted, it seems to have actually helped traffic somewhat on the weekends. It will be even more helpful in the summertime, when traffic is actually worse.

If anything, it seems like you are the one whining, with your constant bitching about CDOT and Colorado natives.

I am simply being realistic about what CDOT has accomplished. You are making shit up, the most egregious lie you made up was that the Feds regularly allow sections of interstate highway with 0' shoulders.

Accomplished? You're a fan of throwing money away of half assed non-solutions? Sorry, what am I saying? You're a Colorado Native. "Call it good" is your general philosophy.

Your whining is the result of perceiving every regulatory or procedural challenge as being completely insurmountable. If you want to perceive my insistence that a real solution is achievable as "whining", so be it. You're going to end up living in south east Wyoming when property in CO starts trading for what it's worth. C-ya, loser.

[WTF is dat]

Accomplished? You're a fan of throwing money away of half assed non-solutions? Sorry, what am I saying? You're a Colorado Native. "Call it good" is your general philosophy.

Your whining is the result of perceiving every regulatory or procedural challenge as being completely insurmountable. If you want to perceive my insistence that a real solution is achievable as "whining", so be it. You're going to end up living in south east Wyoming when property in CO starts trading for what it's worth. C-ya, loser.

Lol