Slide at Keystone (?)

[Grizzled]

I do believe she may have climaxed...

[totaliboard]

you mean the chick or the avalanche..

[simplypow]

you mean the chick or the avalanche..

or perhaps the grizzles alter ego is referring to the pacific jets gracing us with all this nice pow-since these recently elevated temps are beginning to cause problems? We need charts that are more specific to freeze elevations like the canadians use. I know we have them, but they're just not as user friendly. Something that is very quick and easy like. minimum freeze boundary of 11,000. As soon as we start getting melting along the lower margins of these huge slabs there are going to be some unexpectedly large releases.

[newbreak]

CAIC updated the accident details yesterday.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/ac...=524&accfm=inv

Two parties, 2 skiers in each, were involved. Party 1 fell through a cornice (twice!) And triggered 2 avalanches on party 2 below.

Yikes, that could have been avoidable.

[adrenalated]

Jeez. Fucking shitshow.

[Grizzled]

Civil suit will be forthcoming unless the cornice flippers are essentially judgement proof.

[COpow]

Civil suit will be forthcoming unless the cornice flippers are essentially judgement proof.

That's what homeowners/renters insurance is for.

But really, assumption of the risk, comparative negligence is in play...

[MakersTeleMark]

This dentist was thinking negligent homicide actually.

[Trace Hardslab]

Group A on group B avy incident? Surprised we haven't seen more of these in recent years.

[DasBlunt]

Junkshow at 12,000ft, skiers dropping in on other skiers in Summit county?

[smitchell333]

Yeah right, SUE, SUE, SUE!!!

[FiveLarge]

I still wonder if either/both parties knew at all where they were at and what they were getting into. As previously mentioned, not the easiest area to get out of once you drop down into that drainage. Report doesn't state if Group 2 had any avy gear, but Group 1 did not. Doesn't sound like either group had much avalanche awareness, based on their behavior. Even though Group 1 skirted the top of the slide path through the trees, they still went back into the path, just further down. When skier C spoke with A & B about plans, did this come up so C&D would know not to drop in on top of them? Do we even know if C & D intended to drop into Vega, or simply ended up there because they fell through the cornice peeking over the edge? Obviously, I'm not expecting any concrete answers unless someone knows any of the surviving skiers.

[fastfred]

everyone mentions what do we take away from an accident in these forums as some sort of constructive thought

here is my take away, usually there is a WHY? why were people there, why did they do what they did, and why did it happen, the accident report leaves the why out of the equation, mostly because it's a report and it is not designed to offer opinion or point fingers, it's just a boring report on what happened

after reading the report I was pretty much left with a wow. missing was the typical chain of events that led to the accident, although you can easily point out the many errors, thats the cheap shot that anyone can do

here are some thoughts and observations

on any ridge line in summit and surround areas through the past 4 week storm cycle it was almost impossible to see on most days, wind, heavy snow, and major flat light made (especially for me) depth perception, slope angle, and judging distance difficult. I had my share of am I standing still, on flat ground or at an angle over those past couple weeks. In bounds and in the backcountry.

the photos show a nice day, with sun, I'm assuming that the day before was one of those crappy light lots of snow days

the last 1-2 ft of any cornice was very soft snow at the time and actually being able to see the edge was probably difficult

The slope angle was listed 35, right below the cornice was probably closer to 40, that's really not that steep.

The haul out from the location is around 2-3 miles to "good times" and the end of tiger rd, it's another 1/2 mile plus to the nearest parking area. The run out would have been pretty fast and fun in places on a groomed snowmobile track, but then your a 20 min car ride back to keystone on a good day.

stopping and waiting always freaks me out, one at a time, where do you stop that is safe and wait for the next skier

communication between different groups in the same area, my best feeling is, if you talk to another group and they make you uneasy, maybe YOU need to be the one to get out of there

[Scotty1974]

Jeez. Fucking shitshow.

Exactly... Read the report this morning and that about sums it up. Both skiers in the second group stepping through the cornice at different times, no avy gear etc etc.

I feel for the families loss, but as others have said it sounds totally avoidable.

Be safe out there.

[oldskibum]

Thoughtfully constructed synopsis, thanks!

everyone mentions what do we take away from an accident in these forums as some sort of constructive thought

here is my take away, usually there is a WHY? why were people there, why did they do what they did, and why did it happen, the accident report leaves the why out of the equation, mostly because it's a report and it is not designed to offer opinion or point fingers, it's just a boring report on what happened

after reading the report I was pretty much left with a wow. missing was the typical chain of events that led to the accident, although you can easily point out the many errors, thats the cheap shot that anyone can do

here are some thoughts and observations

on any ridge line in summit and surround areas through the past 4 week storm cycle it was almost impossible to see on most days, wind, heavy snow, and major flat light made (especially for me) depth perception, slope angle, and judging distance difficult. I had my share of am I standing still, on flat ground or at an angle over those past couple weeks. In bounds and in the backcountry.

the photos show a nice day, with sun, I'm assuming that the day before was one of those crappy light lots of snow days

the last 1-2 ft of any cornice was very soft snow at the time and actually being able to see the edge was probably difficult

The slope angle was listed 35, right below the cornice was probably closer to 40, that's really not that steep.

The haul out from the location is around 2-3 miles to "good times" and the end of tiger rd, it's another 1/2 mile plus to the nearest parking area. The run out would have been pretty fast and fun in places on a groomed snowmobile track, but then your a 20 min car ride back to keystone on a good day.

stopping and waiting always freaks me out, one at a time, where do you stop that is safe and wait for the next skier

communication between different groups in the same area, my best feeling is, if you talk to another group and they make you uneasy, maybe YOU need to be the one to get out of there

[spook]

all i'd have to see is that bing map and i'd know it was above my pay grade.

[Jethro]

I really don't get the phrase "dropping in on them". Obviously I know what it means, but the party below needs to assess if their location is safe regardless if anyone is, or could be, around them (assuming they are ascending). If I skin up a route, and drop into a face where I cannot see everything below me, I'd say I am responsible for my safety. One cannot possibly know what is below every convex rollover or around a corner in a slide path. Basically if you don't want to be "dropped in on", then choose safer up routes. About the only time it is a valid complaint is if one group starts skiing after another group has entered the slope. Any thoughts?

[summit]

Inability to be seen by other groups or lack of faith that other groups will abide by safe travel... these are reasons that I don't ski some areas I otherwise would. Many areas in East Vail come to mind.

[spook]

they should have posts at the top where you can leave notes. "dropped in at 2pm. no avy gear. if we kill anybody below us, we're sorry. if anybody kills us, fuck them. if we're not known to be dead, to those to whom we just said fuck them, please look for us for a little while. peace out/420 "

[Grizzled]

they should have posts at the top where you can leave notes. "dropped in at 2pm. no avy gear. if we kill anybody below us, we're sorry. if anybody kills us, fuck them. if we're not known to be dead, to those to whom we just said fuck them, please look for us for a little while. peace out/420 "

That is awesome!