Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[Kinnikinnick]

It's up to you if you want to be a hater. It's a pseudo-free country. But I don't go in the IPA thread to start calling people a bunch of drunks and say that Pliny the Elder has no value.


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I called you some derogatory name?


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[summit]

It's up to you if you want to be a hater. It's a pseudo-free country. But I don't go in the IPA thread to start calling people a bunch of drunks and say that Pliny the Elder has no value.

Seriously? Crypto is just a personal taste like beer and you are emotionally attached such that you are offended if someone question its merits?

Crypto is no more sacred than any financial or political topic.

[digitaldeath]

Btc bears and boars

[RShea]

Anyone concerned about the Japanese Exchange that was hacked and ended up with $530 million missing?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-j...-idUSKBN1FF29C

Ouch!!

[stalefish3169]

Anyone concerned about the Japanese Exchange that was hacked and ended up with $530 million missing?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-j...-idUSKBN1FF29C

Ouch!!

The exchange is refunding users.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinc...munity-support

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[splat]

WIRED Magazine 1.27.18

The era of the Silk Road—the online black market for every kind of nefarious good and deed imaginable—is over. But that doesn’t mean your youthful indiscretions were necessarily expunged from the record when the Silk Road was torn from the dark web. If you spent any bitcoin buying illegal drugs there, evidence of that drug deal is likely staring law enforcement in the face.

But wait, isn’t cryptocurrency supposed to be inherently, uh, cryptic? Well, it’s true that because bitcoin answers to no bank or government, it’s very difficult to connect someone’s bitcoin hoard to their IRL identity. But unless you carefully launder your payments, bitcoin’s so-called retroactive operational security is so low that your information is easy for hackers (or the feds) to dredge up. “The public ledger of bitcoin transactions known as the blockchain also serves as a record of every bitcoin transaction from one address to another,” writes senior security reporter Andy Greenberg. “Find out someone's address, and discovering who they're sending money to or receiving it from becomes trivial.”

[neckdeep]

It's up to you if you want to be a hater. It's a pseudo-free country. But I don't go in the IPA thread to start calling people a bunch of drunks and say that Pliny the Elder has no value.


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Beer is a product. Bitcoin is not a product. Why can't you stop using flawed analogies to justify your speculation?

If you need unquestioning positivity in this thread, well, that speaks volumes about the thin reed of sentiment upon which the crypto market balances. Have you maxed out your credit cards and taken out a second mortgage to "invest" in cryptos? I suggest you do so and start a new thread called, "Crypto speculation, who's gone all in on it - no haters allowed." Until you do so, we can safely assume that you too have unacknowledged, gnawing doubts about whether this is all a massive pump and dump. If you truly believe even half the crap you've been parroting, go all in. From what you've been saying, fiat currency is doomed, cryptos are the future. Go all in!

[DBdude]

you could say that at the moment bitcoin is a financial product.

[neckdeep]

you could say that at the moment bitcoin is a financial product.

Really? Financial products are based on contracts. Foremost, Bitcoin is clearly an object of speculation; if I had to analogize it, I'd say it was being treated as if it were a newly discovered, extremely rare commodity for which there was great industrial demand. But, it is not rare. And, the demand for it beyond speculators is still unclear. It's just an early iteration of an emergent technology. To me, hording Bitcoin makes about as much sense as hording copies of Windows 2.0 when you should have been buying Microsoft.

[reckless toboggan]

To me, hording Bitcoin makes about as much sense as hording copies of Windows 2.0 when you should have been buying Microsoft.

Great analogy.

[DBdude]

What is a 'Financial Instrument'?
Financial instruments are assets that can be traded. They can also be seen as packages of capital that may be traded. Most types of financial instruments provide an efficient flow and transfer of capital all throughout the world's investors. These assets can be cash, a contractual right to deliver or receive cash or another type of financial instrument, or evidence of one's ownership of an entity.

i think the definition above covers bitcoin as a financial instrument

the above definition from https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f...instrument.asp

[neckdeep]

What is a 'Financial Instrument'?
Financial instruments are assets that can be traded. They can also be seen as packages of capital that may be traded. Most types of financial instruments provide an efficient flow and transfer of capital all throughout the world's investors. These assets can be cash, a contractual right to deliver or receive cash or another type of financial instrument, or evidence of one's ownership of an entity.

the above definition from https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f...instrument.asp

You, however, used the term financial "product", not financial "instrument". Financial instrument is a far more encompassing term. I stand on the statement that bitcoin is not a financial product, either by definition or by how it is traded. It is being traded as though it is a rare commodity for which great future applications are anticipated but not yet present. Even the underlying tech, blockchain, is being over-promoted as if we just discovered tantalum yesterday and now the digital age can take its quantum leap forward. That is hype, to say the least.

But, let us say cryptos are the new tantalum. Answer me this. What's more valuable: a piece of tantalum, shares in a tantalum refiner, or shares in Apple, which uses tantalum to make its products. Capiche?

[DBdude]

my mistake - sorry

[digitaldeath]

Beer is a product. Bitcoin is not a product. Why can't you stop using flawed analogies to justify your speculation?

If you need unquestioning positivity in this thread, well, that speaks volumes about the thin reed of sentiment upon which the crypto market balances. Have you maxed out your credit cards and taken out a second mortgage to "invest" in cryptos? I suggest you do so and start a new thread called, "Crypto speculation, who's gone all in on it - no haters allowed." Until you do so, we can safely assume that you too have unacknowledged, gnawing doubts about whether this is all a massive pump and dump. If you truly believe even half the crap you've been parroting, go all in. From what you've been saying, fiat currency is doomed, cryptos are the future. Go all in!

Crypto is similar to fiat money, it’s production is just different



Crypto has no inherent utility

[couloirman]

I bet alot of people will disagree, but at the moment, I'm not thinking of cryptocurrency as an actual currency-- I think it's a bad name. To me, when I'm buying into an ICO or a penny coin, I am just helping fund tech startups and hoping the coin will turn into the next BTC/ETH/LTC or whatever. A coin (to me) is a share of stock I am buying in a company that has a mission that I believe in. Calling it a currency makes it hard for people to wrap their brains around what the hell this whole movement is about.

[basinbeater]

Sort of agree with couloirman. When you buy into a coin or a crypto currency, you could be speculating, but the value of the coin is determined by the functionality of the network. Bitcoin blew up because people initially liked the security and the anonymity provided by the network. Other networks and coins have different functionality that provides a different value to a different set of people. If you believe in the functionality of a network and thinks others will too, it may be a good idea to "invest" in the network by buying some of the coins. Is there speculation going on? Yep. Doesn't mean there is no inherent value to these things, because there is.

[stalefish3169]

Beer is a product. Bitcoin is not a product. Why can't you stop using flawed analogies to justify your speculation?

If you need unquestioning positivity in this thread, well, that speaks volumes about the thin reed of sentiment upon which the crypto market balances. Have you maxed out your credit cards and taken out a second mortgage to "invest" in cryptos? I suggest you do so and start a new thread called, "Crypto speculation, who's gone all in on it - no haters allowed." Until you do so, we can safely assume that you too have unacknowledged, gnawing doubts about whether this is all a massive pump and dump. If you truly believe even half the crap you've been parroting, go all in. From what you've been saying, fiat currency is doomed, cryptos are the future. Go all in!

Lighten up man. The IPA comment was a joke. I was trying to convey that most threads don't have people that post vociferously just to cunt them up. To be fair though, you must admit that you can buy a shitload of beer with a Bitcoin. And...it's ironic that you keep harping about analogies while haters keep saying Bitcoin over and over to generalize the entire crypto space.

I said before earlier in this thread that I treat all of my positions as something I can afford to lose entirely. I never said fiat is doomed either. What I've said is that people keep coming in here acting like dollars have never ever been used nefariously and that the people running the show now are magnanimous saints. To reiterate what I've already said...there will be many failures, but there will also be the next Google, Visa, Amazon, etc. My biggest fear for this space is that over-regulation will be crypto's downfall. I suspect the owners of fortunes made over thousands of years, probably with >50% through some sort of illegal and/or unethical means, will do much to impede competition.

[Kinnikinnick]

I suspect the owners of fortunes made over thousands of years, probably with >50% through some sort of illegal and/or unethical means, will do much to impede competition.

So you don’t think that a good % of the use in a nominally anonymous asset transfer system is by those engaging in illegal and/or unethical activities? You don’t think that some of the biggest fans of this are Despots and oligarchs from criminal enterprise and undemocratic countries who can more easily transfer their funds around without the bit me of sanctions and law enforcement monitoring that would occur if they were forced to use the mainstream banking systems?




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[basinbeater]

So you don’t think that a good % of the use in a nominally anonymous asset transfer system is by those engaging in illegal and/or unethical activities? You don’t think that some of the biggest fans of this are Despots and oligarchs from criminal enterprise and undemocratic countries who can more easily transfer their funds around without the bit me of sanctions and law enforcement monitoring that would occur if they were forced to use the mainstream banking systems?




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They were just the early adopters. Just like prone helped decide the battle between VHS and beta max.

[Kinnikinnick]

More talk out there about whether Tether has been printing funny money and inflating Bitcoin.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashabl...leged-scam.amp


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[couloirman]

Anyone on bittrex and can send me an invite? they are only letting 'select invitees' on right now...

[ICantLogIn]

Im not sure we need a narrative but..

U.S. Regulators Subpoena Crypto Exchange Bitfinex, Tether

[Boomer28]

Another totally NORMAL 10% swing in crypto today....

[ICantLogIn]

Sorry looks like the CFTC did subpoena Bitfinex and Tether -- though the subpoena was delivered on December 6. Old news FUD.

[Kinnikinnick]

Tried to better understand the Tether USDT thing this morning but I’m missing something about it. So you buy USDT from them for USD (although I read somewhere that the retail means to do so no longer works ?) so that you have a coin pegged to the USD. For what purpose ? Shouldn’t you just buy BTC or Ether or whatever if you want crypto and if you want USD then stay in USD assets.

And on the Tether side if they take USD and are supposed to keep it in reserve, what can they then do. If it’s a fractional reserve thing - ie a bank then I’d understand, but if they are supposed to keep the whole amount as reserve, what do they do?


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