Swinging wet flies...

[gretch6364]

I started fly fishing about 5 years ago in the peak of the nymph fishing craze. I fish a lot with small beadheads double rigged with some weight and a yarn indicator or thingamabobber. I also dry fly fish and have been trying to do more streamer fishing. I have never swung a wet fly or nymped without an indicator, but recently have been very intrigued about going back to this classic style. I am hoping it will be a good intro into some of the euro-style nymphing that is becoming so popular, which I have also never done.

I do not see many people here in Colorado using this traditional style of fishing, and was hoping some of the mags could help me out. My first question, what would be a good fly line to use for these types of fishing? It would seem that a line like the Rio Indicator would be good for swinging wet flies and nymphing without an indicator, but the new euro-nymphying lines seem to have very thin heads, rather than the long body of the nymphing lines. Is this a correct observation? Are the two style lines in conflict with each other and I should just buy a Rio Gold and use it for both?

I recently purchased a 10ft 4wt that I want to use as a dedicated nymphing rig, and I need a line for it and am having a hard time deciding. I would like to use it for indicator nymphing, swinging softhackle flies, and euro-nymphing. Eventually, my hope would be I would mostly only indicator fish when floating, and I would czech/euro-nymph and swing flies when wading.

After solving the line question, my next question is what flies for our western waters. Will I be able to have success with swinging traditional wet flies on tail waters like the Blue and S. Platte, or should I use this method more for waters like the Colorado, Clear Creek, etc., which tend to be less technical? The soft hackle flies seem to be pretty simple, and I would like to tie a selection this winter. Any pattern suggestions? With beads or no beads? The tradition is to not use any weight and use mends to get the flies down, the idea being to use this method when the fish are suspended in the water column, correct?

On the czech nymphing side, which I was thinking would augment swinging the traditional flies when the fish are deeper and in the pools rather than the ripples, are any mags doing this? I am thinking of just buying this DVD/Kit first and going from there for tying:

http://www.bluequillangler.com/Produ...ng-Starter-Kit


I want to load a simple 6 compartment aluminum box with soft hackle wets in the compartments and my czech nymphs in the flat foam on the other side. Sorry this post is long winded, but I don't know shit about either of these types of fishing and would like to add them to my arsenal. Thank you for any help.

[snapt]

Hey Man

Funny you should write this. I'm actually boxing up 6 new RIO Euro Nymph lines designed by Steve Parrot to take to the Denver Show this weekend as we speak. If anyone is at the Denver show stop by RIO and say hi.

It's a tricky question as far as what line, Steve is probably the best resource in the country to talk to.

For Euro Style (Czech/Polish/French etc) nymphing guys are going to as thin a line as possible. They're using the weight of the flies/weight/whatever to load the rod, and the supple low stretch line is ideal for strike detection. For trying to turn over indi rigs they wont work, at all.

Any traditional line that will work for regular Indi nymphing you can cross over and use it for your Euro type stuff but your casting will be based of using the line to load instead of the flies. For something all around the Perception would be a good choice. It's slightly heavy to turn over your Indi rigs, it's also fairly short headed and will load up close for your Euro style stuff. The low stretch core is nice for fast hook sets for either style of nymphing. A gold or Grand would honestly work fine as well.

As far as soft hackles go, most times I'm nymphing my bottom (3rd usually) fly is a soft hackle and I'll let that swing around after the dead drift. It can be deadly. Peacock bodied Soft hackles, pmd's, hares ear's, all tied soft hackle style are my go to's.

It's an odd niche, ideally you'd have 2 lines, but a standard line will cross over where as the Euro specific won't really.
Hopefully this makes sense!

[gretch6364]

Thanks Snapt. Maybe I will stop in to discuss. Is this new line different than the one sold by the Blue Quill that Steve designed? I met him a while back before he released his video and book. Nice guy, but we didn't talk about czech nymphing. The line pricing is pretty good (at least currently), and I am putting a Battenkill on it, so spools are cheap, making it not out of the question to use two different lines and carry an extra spool.

I too have used a softhackle while indicator nymphing to emulate an emerger at the end of my drift. Mostly during the morning when I am expecting a caddis or pmd hatch. I was thinking it would be fun to get all traditional and swing flies for trout without an indicator. The deal cabela's is running on the rio gold is great, and I purchased one for my 6wt to replace a sharkskin. I am fully on the Rio bandwagon now across all my rods as I have been unsatisfied with my SA lines, whose tips seem to sink easily and their loops break off.

I was under the impression when swinging flies I would be best with a brighter colored line so I could better see takes, since I am not using an indicator. Too bad the steelhead line doesn't come in 4 or 5wt. The perception has kind of an olive color too. Will brighter fly lines spook the trout we see on the super clear tailwaters?

[jma233]

Something else to consider: if your intent is to swing then you might want to experiment with single hand spey casts. In my experience, the SHS casts are relatively easy to learn by yourself (double hand is another story). These casts have literally transformed the way I fish...I even use them when fishing dries now, but they are especially suited to swinging wets or streamers.

As far as fishing goes, I think pretty much any line is suitable for swinging. For SHS casts, however, a triangle taper where the head gets heavier near the back is best. I learned using a Wulff Ambush line which was made for SHS but usually use a SA steelhead line now which OH casts better. I know nothing about Euro nymphing but I don't think these lines would be ideal.

[snapt]

Thanks Snapt. Maybe I will stop in to discuss. Is this new line different than the one sold by the Blue Quill that Steve designed? I met him a while back before he released his video and book. Nice guy, but we didn't talk about czech nymphing. The line pricing is pretty good (at least currently), and I am putting a Battenkill on it, so spools are cheap, making it not out of the question to use two different lines and carry an extra spool.

I too have used a softhackle while indicator nymphing to emulate an emerger at the end of my drift. Mostly during the morning when I am expecting a caddis or pmd hatch. I was thinking it would be fun to get all traditional and swing flies for trout without an indicator. The deal cabela's is running on the rio gold is great, and I purchased one for my 6wt to replace a sharkskin. I am fully on the Rio bandwagon now across all my rods as I have been unsatisfied with my SA lines, whose tips seem to sink easily and their loops break off.

I was under the impression when swinging flies I would be best with a brighter colored line so I could better see takes, since I am not using an indicator. Too bad the steelhead line doesn't come in 4 or 5wt. The perception has kind of an olive color too. Will brighter fly lines spook the trout we see on the super clear tailwaters?

Nope, this is Steve's line brought to a wider market.

As far as color, when swinging you primarily go by feel (why I like the Perception) so it doesn't really matter. A loft of good soft hackle fisherman add in a tiny bit of action with their stripping hands as well. Plus you're fishing for aggressive fish who are chasing down moving bugs so they tend to not be very shy at all.

Learning to SHS isn't a bad idea, but opens a whole nother can of worms!

[neckdeep]

After solving the line question, my next question is what flies for our western waters. Will I be able to have success with swinging traditional wet flies on tail waters like the Blue and S. Platte, or should I use this method more for waters like the Colorado, Clear Creek, etc., which tend to be less technical? The soft hackle flies seem to be pretty simple, and I would like to tie a selection this winter. Any pattern suggestions? With beads or no beads? The tradition is to not use any weight and use mends to get the flies down, the idea being to use this method when the fish are suspended in the water column, correct?

IMHO, swinging flies is most important for the hatches where the species spends no time riding the surface film to break the shuck and unfurl its wings. So, obviously this covers most pupating caddis flies species. Pink Alberts are the one common mayfly I know of that flies right off the surface. Other mayfly species like BWOs and gray drakes, however, are free swimmers and swinging flies will take lots of fish before and during the hatch. Perhaps the most important "swinging hatch" I encounter are the little yellow or orange craneflies that are very common around here during the first month after runoff. They can hatch in large numbers and just zoom up to the surface and into the air. At those times, a dead drifted nymph near the bottom won't catch much but a #16 partridge and yellow soft hackle swung fast to the surface kills it.

Thing is tho, on the freestone streams I fish in the summer and fall, the stoneflies are so ridiculously abundant that there's usually not much point indicator nymphing anything besides a single #6-10 Turd with rubberlegs because, regardless of what the fish are focused on subsurface, they'll still take the Turd. The large fish just get conditioned to grab big stonefly nymphs, simple as that. Only reason to change from the Turd is the fish have moved to surface feeding and won't leave the thingamabobber alone. Sure, I fish midge nymphs on the Hank from February til April but once runoff starts, its all about stoneflies and a single heavy fly is easier to work in close around cover and structure. As a result, I don't "get" the need for the czech nymph system; seems more complicated than I need it to be, I guess, but that's just for around here, probably. What's the advantage that would make me want to tie all those extra knots? Using small beadheads? Great choice, if I want to spend half the day unhooking whitefish instead of big trout. It's a fact, whities just can't leave beadheads alone.

[gretch6364]

If I wanted to go with the Wulff triangle taper, should I overline to a 5wt? The rod is a Grey Streamflex 10ft 4wt.

[jma233]

I know the Wulff Ambush lines are already overweight (like 215 grains or so for a 5 wt) so people don't overline the Ambush lines. As far as the regular TT lines I guess it's up to the individual to decide for themselves. For the whole SHS thing I think it's easiest to learn with a heavier line but I know in my case I enjoy fishing with a lighter line.

[gretch6364]

Thing is tho, on the freestone streams I fish in the summer and fall, the stoneflies are so ridiculously abundant that there's usually not much point indicator nymphing anything besides a single #6-10 Turd with rubberlegs because, regardless of what the fish are focused on subsurface, they'll still take the Turd. The large fish just get conditioned to grab big stonefly nymphs, simple as that. Only reason to change from the Turd is the fish have moved to surface feeding and won't leave the thingamabobber alone. Sure, I fish midge nymphs on the Hank from February til April but once runoff starts, its all about stoneflies and a single heavy fly is easier to work in close around cover and structure. As a result, I don't "get" the need for the czech nymph system; seems more complicated than I need it to be, I guess, but that's just for around here, probably. What's the advantage that would make me want to tie all those extra knots? Using small beadheads? Great choice, if I want to spend half the day unhooking whitefish instead of big trout. It's a fact, whities just can't leave beadheads alone.

We don't have the white fish on the S. Platte here, which is where I would be czech nymphing. I was thinking about it primarily because our water is so skinny, and the fish seem to be so trained on indicator fishing with size 20 and 22 midge patterns, that changing it up might work.

I am guessing you could use the stonefly nymphs as your heavy fly for czech nymphing.

[neckdeep]

the fish seem to be so trained on indicator fishing with size 20 and 22 midge patterns, that changing it up might work.

For that, I like to drop shot a bouyant nymph under an indicator. The split shot ticks along the bottom and the nymph is, hopefully, floating somewhere above the bottom, swirling in front of the fish's face at dead drift. Technically, I'd say you are fishing the split shot more than the fly because if you don't get the shot ticking along just right then the current just pushes the nymph to the bottom. If you are lucky, however, the fly gets snagged in a trout's mouth until the shot passes by and tension tugs the indicator. I don't use this presentation in truly "skinny" water; its more for when trout are stacked on the bottom of holes in cold weather. Shame you don't have whitefish on the Platte, they do add a load of fertilizer.

[adipose]

Hey Man

Funny you should write this. I'm actually boxing up 6 new RIO Euro Nymph lines designed by Steve Parrot to take to the Denver Show this weekend as we speak. If anyone is at the Denver show stop by RIO and say hi.

It's a tricky question as far as what line, Steve is probably the best resource in the country to talk to.

For Euro Style (Czech/Polish/French etc) nymphing guys are going to as thin a line as possible. They're using the weight of the flies/weight/whatever to load the rod, and the supple low stretch line is ideal for strike detection. For trying to turn over indi rigs they wont work, at all.

Any traditional line that will work for regular Indi nymphing you can cross over and use it for your Euro type stuff but your casting will be based of using the line to load instead of the flies. For something all around the Perception would be a good choice. It's slightly heavy to turn over your Indi rigs, it's also fairly short headed and will load up close for your Euro style stuff. The low stretch core is nice for fast hook sets for either style of nymphing. A gold or Grand would honestly work fine as well.

As far as soft hackles go, most times I'm nymphing my bottom (3rd usually) fly is a soft hackle and I'll let that swing around after the dead drift. It can be deadly. Peacock bodied Soft hackles, pmd's, hares ear's, all tied soft hackle style are my go to's.

It's an odd niche, ideally you'd have 2 lines, but a standard line will cross over where as the Euro specific won't really.
Hopefully this makes sense!

See you on Friday at the show..