G3 ION tech binding

[powtario]

For $750 you could buy a pair of beast 14s

Right now you could buy 2 pairs of Beast 16's for that off one of the Yurp websites.

[bean]

I'm not sure I'd want a pair without brakes, but possibly with a brake/brakeless option. What are other's opinions on pros and cons?

I've got two pairs of AT skis, both brakeless and I love it that way. I used leashes on Denali because a lost ski there would've been catastrophic, but I otherwise never use them. There's a slight chance I'll get a dedicated pow setup, in that case I'll get something with brakes. It'll be next season so I can see how Ion vs. Vipec vs. Radical 2.0 all shakes out.

Just be cognizant of your skis and the terrain and it's fine. Brakes don't do much in pow anyway.

[CarveMan]

One week in, 3 moderate tours and 3 days of piste skiing and I'm really happy. They feel super solid and don't have that harsh ride my old Dyna FT12s had. Will keep an eye on potential drift of the release value.

[neck beard]

I just had 3 days of melt-freeze issues in my heel pieces when finishing mild days of touring later into the colder early evening during some long days along the Wapta.

Ice in the mechanism resulted in the brake on both skis being held in tour mode after rotating the heel piece to ski mode. I had to hold the tip of my skis and kick the base under the heel piece aggressively to smash the ice. Even then, one heel piece would not move forward - it was frozen in the tour position - and I had to ski one ski in 'almost' walk mode, aka, the heel pins only engaged the boot inserts by 1mm and popped out every other turn. I twisted that ski back to tour mode and skied it that way for a long early evening run.

I put the skis in the hut overnight to melt out and dry the bindings and they were always fine the next morning.

Great bindings, but I'll be looking to warranty mine based on 3 different undesirable heel piece problems:

- twisting 'din' wont stay set
- rusting parts (rusty water dribbles down my ski each evening)
- freezing heel piece mechanism.

Plus one of my 6 heel pieces (3 pairs) will not fully click into tour mode and it rotates back when the heel riser is used.

Currently have ski toured 75 days on IONS this season. Will ski another 40 or so before June, so no chance to switch them out, and no desire to re-drill my skis for Dynafit, but the melt freeze heel issue worried me for spring.

Aside: amazes me how few Americans with Dynafits have heard of G3.

[1000-oaks]

Think it was ice between the heel post and the brake carriage? Or did the base of the post freeze to the upper track and/or bottom cover? Glopping a bunch of binding grease into the space between the post & the carriage might help, and make it easier to pick out with an awl or small knife blade.

[neck beard]

Think it was ice between the heel post and the brake carriage? Or did the base of the post freeze to the upper track and/or bottom cover? Glopping a bunch of binding grease into the space between the post & the carriage might help, and make it easier to pick out with an awl or small knife blade.

I don't know.

The hooks which hold the brake pads down were extended even after I violently kicked the bases of the ski and freed the brake. If I pushed the brake down again, I had to kick it to free it once more. This happened to both skis, 3 days in a row.

One one ski, the heel piece spring seemed to be affected by ice, as after kicking the brake free the heel piece would be moved for/aft by hand by about 3mm each direction. This was the ski that only had 1mm of heel pin in the boot inserts and would release my heel when skiing. In the field I tried adjusting the BSL of that ski and the screw would not turn with out applying a lot force (that was going to break my multitool).

After an overnight melt and dry, none of these issues were present.

ps - I think these are potentially very good bindings and wish G3 great deserved success with them. Damned if I want to ski Dynafit again if I can help it. I'm just relating my ION issues since I've used them a moderate amount so far and think my findings are worth sharing.

[NW_SKIER]

Do you have those little plastic covers on top of the brake spring underneath the pad? Because I was having icing problems on the one tour I've gotten on mine so far but I didn't have those little plastic covers on yet

[neck beard]

Yes, using those. The icing was far more extensive than just the springs under that pad.

[NW_SKIER]

Damn that is not what I wanted to hear. I'm glad I have until the beginning of March next year for my 1 year warranty. hopefully they get the details fixed by then. thanks for the info

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I've got two pairs of AT skis, both brakeless and I love it that way. I used leashes on Denali because a lost ski there would've been catastrophic, but I otherwise never use them. There's a slight chance I'll get a dedicated pow setup, in that case I'll get something with brakes. It'll be next season so I can see how Ion vs. Vipec vs. Radical 2.0 all shakes out.

Just be cognizant of your skis and the terrain and it's fine. Brakes don't do much in pow anyway.

I don't understand this, you're going to get a pow ski rig with brakes and then you say brakes don't do much in pow?

I did find something annoying yesterday. I was skinning through some undulating wind drifts and with the ski severely flexed the heels of the boots would bind on the heel pieces. This is because of the non gap adjustment. Not a deal breaker but it is annoying.

[1000-oaks]

There's a plastic arm keyed to the bottom of the heel post, which pulls away from the brake latch mechanism when the heel slides rearward into skin mode. Unless the heel post returns to the ski mode position (pushing the arm forward, which retracts the spring-loaded brake latch), the brake latch will remain extended and won't release the brake pedal.

Unlike Speeds, Comforts, Verticals and pre-2014 Radicals, the BSL setting is actually set by the position of the brake carriage (and the floating heel post is pressed against the carriage with a spring), so the adjustment screw won't turn if the carriage is frozen to the baseplate. If there's ice preventing the post from resting against the carriage when in ski mode, there will be a pin gap and the brake latch will remain in tour mode. Trying to adjust away the gap won't release the brake, and will eliminate rearward heel travel necessary for accomodating ski flex.

Basically the ice has to come out of the space between the carriage and the post. There's really nothing to warranty, unless G3 adds some kind of mechanism to help keep snow/ice out of that space.

[neck beard]

There's a plastic arm keyed to the bottom of the heel post, which pulls away from the brake latch mechanism when the heel slides rearward into skin mode. Unless the heel post returns to the ski mode position (pushing the arm forward, which retracts the spring-loaded brake latch), the brake latch will remain extended and won't release the brake pedal.

Unlike Speeds, Comforts, Verticals and pre-2014 Radicals, the BSL setting is actually set by the position of the brake carriage (and the heel post is pressed against the carriage with a spring), so the adjustment screw won't turn if the carriage is frozen to the baseplate. If there's ice preventing the post from resting against the carriage, there will be a pin gap and the brake latch will stay in tour mode.

At a guess, I'd say you have described the mechanics behind the situation I had.

[AlpiNord]

Sounds like an argument for the brakeless version. I had some freeze/thaw days and a similar situation and it was down to chipping out a thin layer of ice under the brake pad.

[1000-oaks]

Doubt it would make much difference for the OP's issue, the brakeless Lt version probably has the same mechanism to shift the heel post 5mm to the rear in climb mode (to create space for the heel during deep ski flex, and lock the sliding heel at the end of its rearward travel).

Edit: Just checked photo of Lt, it's the same mechanism.

[1000-oaks]

B&D is ready to make Ion toe shims in 3.2 mm, 4.7 mm and 6.4 mm, though the 6.4mm thickness is probably unnecessary. The 3.2mm shim puts the Ion in alpine binder ramp zone, and the 4.7mm makes the Ion about the same as the Beast.

Another note: turns out if you put inserts in your ski for Ions (mounted on the line), you can share the front toe holes with Salomon STH Driver bindings (but the Solly will end up positioned 4.5mm behind the mount line). But this only works if you screw the Solly toe to the ski using the front Ion inserts, & then mark the position for the rear Solly toe inserts. (If you know a machinist with a set of "transfer punches", this can be done very accurately.) I'll try to get a good measurement sometime this coming week for freehanders who want to go this route.

The drill pattern will NOT match the Solly jig; it will be a bit shorter. This works by taking advantage of the diagonally-slotted front holes in the Driver toe. A Salomon mounting jig puts the front two holes at the "forward outer" end of the slots, but to work with the Ion inserts, the screws need to be at the "rear inner" end of the slots.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ this pleases me.

i was hoping the tolerance in the solly toe would be sufficient to share the ion's holes.

i will probably set up two new (to me) skis in this fashion:

186 Vicik Tour
186 Kusala Pow Pure

however they do both have a previous single mount to dance around.

EDIT: does the STH2 also have the diagonally slotted front toe holes? (i don't have any to look at)
or is the STH (and older driver toes?) the only binder that can take advantage of the "wiggle room"?

[kootenayskier]

Doubt it would make much difference for the OP's issue, the brakeless Lt version probably has the same mechanism to shift the heel post 5mm to the rear in climb mode (to create space for the heel during deep ski flex, and lock the sliding heel at the end of its rearward travel).

Edit: Just checked photo of Lt, it's the same mechanism.

I skied on the Ions last winter and have been on the Ion LTs for most of this season (many days, variety of conditions) and haven't experienced any icing issues. I know there were some changes (obviously no brakes) made from the Ion (which I don't have here for comparison), but playing with the LT heel piece I have in front of me, I can't see where there is potential for a problem? My experience has been a conspicuous absence of icing issues compared to my long history with Dynafit Comfort/Vertical/Speed Radicals, and that of touring companions using most alternative set-ups, such as Vipecs.

[neck beard]

Icing in the spring under the heel post. As described above. It has an influence on the brake hook. Not icing of the brake itself.

I am also getting heel pin play in one of my more used heels. When in ski mode I can lift my boot heel just enough to notice.

Rusty water continues to dribble from one older heel.

[1000-oaks]

having the alpine toe @ -4.5mm relative to the AT mount is $ as most AT boots have a shorter BSL, so one would be pretty close to the same mount point in each binder/boot combo.

Actually that's backwards; if your alpine boot has a longer BSL than your AT boot, the alpine "mount" will be even further back than 4.5mm off the line. If your alpine boot had a 10mm shorter BSL than your AT boot, you'd have pretty close to the same mount with each combo.

Measured the holes tonight, to share the front two Ion & front two Solly holes, you'll install three pair of inserts with each insert 20mm off the centerline of the ski. If you use this alternate pattern for STH, you're not going to be able to use the CAST system on this mount without doing some funny business on the front two screw holes in the CAST baseplate. Obviously plenty of folks won't be going to hundredths of a millimeter, but I included it for anyone using a digital caliper.

• Insert pair #1 (closest to the ski tip, front holes for both Ion and Solly) will be positioned according where you want the midsole line of your boot on the ski for the Ion (STH will be 4.5mm further back).

• Pair #2 (the rear pair of Solly toe holes) will be 29.88mm behind pair #1.

• Pair #3 (the rear pair of Ion toe holes) will be 45.10mm behind pair #1.

I haven't tested this on a piece of wood yet, but I'm confident it's plenty accurate. Photo shows where the Salomon jig puts the front screw holes, and the real estate available to match the Ion.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ clearly my brain was addled; you are quite correct.


edit: nice pic.

[CarveMan]

I just had 3 days of melt-freeze issues in my heel pieces when finishing mild days of touring later into the colder early evening during some long days along the Wapta.

Ice in the mechanism resulted in the brake on both skis being held in tour mode after rotating the heel piece to ski mode. I had to hold the tip of my skis and kick the base under the heel piece aggressively to smash the ice. Even then, one heel piece would not move forward - it was frozen in the tour position - and I had to ski one ski in 'almost' walk mode, aka, the heel pins only engaged the boot inserts by 1mm and popped out every other turn. I twisted that ski back to tour mode and skied it that way for a long early evening run.

I put the skis in the hut overnight to melt out and dry the bindings and they were always fine the next morning.

I had this (but the opposite way) on the Haute Route - one night I left my skis outside the hut and there was a drip from the roof and my skis were caked in ice by morning he skis were in ski mode and when I rotated the heels to tour mode the brakes would not lock up. It was cold all day so no chance to thaw the ice so I held up the brakes up with Voile straps.

They were fine the next day after properly thawing.

[neck beard]

I was tempted to pee on mine once.

More recently I had two separate days breaking trail with a large number of people behind me. Whilst using force to smash through a breakable crust, the heel pieces repeatedly rotated back into ski mode. Between both skis, it happened about 15 times in a 30 minute period, mostly resulting in my heel locking down. A few times both rotated on consecutive steps, leaving me with both heels locked at the same time. Lets just say that the situation was not helped by this happening.

[CarveMan]

I was tempted to pee on mine once.

On this particular morning someone's pee froze while in mid-air so I think peeing on them would have just left a bigger, yellow lump of ice on the skis!

My wife had one auto rotation incident but she reckons she knocked the heel with her other ski just before. However we only put a month of use on our bindings and about 15,000m vert, no doubt you have far more & the rotation parts will have freed up much more.

That said I'm very happy with how the bindings feel while skiing. I don't feel like I'm on a tech binding, and I just ski,

[1000-oaks]

A new field tips video, though it doesn't address ice in the heel track.

https://vimeo.com/120824858

If experiencing heel rotation, orient heel pins inward for a long approach without risers, pins outward for an approach primarily using risers.

[Ville]

Very good binding so far. 105kg skier in boxers, good skier, din screws all the way in and quarter turn back. I have been using these only for touring, maybe about 25-35 days this season. I have to say they're very impressive. I have skied anything from steep ice to powder without problems. I have locked the toes only when skiing on no fall zones. I have hit couple of times ice chunks under powder with high speed, one time it felt that my foot will eject from boot, no release. And it's so easy to step in, nice thing when you're putting your skis on in the steep slope.

Other binding has also din problem, need check din after couple of tours. Other than that, no problems at all.