Help choosing tele bindings

[gritter]

IMHO you get a lot of debate like that above about whether to get a floppy or 'active' binding. As a beginner it is hard to know what you will like. If you get a Hammerhead then they can be quickly adjusted to what feels right for you and changed as your style progresses.

They are easy to adjust - I used to use mine for touring and pop it to the most floppy setting for the uphill and then adjust them to a more active setting for the down.

[LightRanger]

So now that TeleTips is RIP, all the self-justfiying Telewhacker posts have migrated to TGR.

Sort of: http://www.backcountrytalk.earnyourt...m/vb/forum.php

[GeezerSteve]

Not being cute, I just said earlier it depends.

Not being cute, HH#1, HH#2, HH#3, HH#4, HH#5 = five bindings in one, allows the beginner to decide what level of activity works for him/her. And I'm not getting how anything other than an underfoot cable binding could possibly be better for learning. (I'm excluding NTN cuz OP already has duckbill boots.)

[crash55]

TL;DR version - go floppy if you want to learn what may (or may not) be fun about tele, go big if you just wanna be skiing the same shit, different gear.

So now that TeleTips is RIP, all the self-justfiying Telewhacker posts have migrated to TGR. That's OK, though.

Anyway. It totally depends on what kind of person you are, what kind of skier you are and what you wanna get outta tele.

1) If you just want to dink around, learn while hanging out with kids or beginner GFs or whatever while re-learning the fun of skiing, and if you're patient and interested then soft/floppy gear like T4 boots (or hell, even leather) is fun to learn on for the challenge of it, and will prolly make you a better tele-er in the long run if you recognize the limitations of the gear and are cool with learning the balance points whilst sucking mightily, at least in comparison to your alpine buddies or dudes/gals on heavy tele gear. Once you learn on floppy gear, you'll really appreciate bigger gear once you graduate towards it and you'll (arguably) be a better tele-skier in the long run, and may even learn to love "the turn" more than you ever could with lockdown heels. Cheaper route too, since you already have the boots. If you hate it, small loss, but if you're intrigued you can invest more time/resources/effort into it. In this case, as far as bindings, go with Voiles. Cheaper, lighter, more reliable and straightforward, and actually can be skied at an extremely high level (super committing lines with big boots and skis at high speeds) with the right technique. I hated my 7TMs and sold them as soon as I could; releasability is overrated, 'cause the bindings flop around so much, I think knees are potentially at less risk (arguable, of course). Got my only fib spiral fracture on releasable tele bindings (NTN if you're wondering).

2) If, on the other hand, you can't stand the thought of a long slog towards greatness (or even competence), and are not masochistic or stupid enough to work your way up the skiing ladder, certainly bigger is better from the onset, in which case go for a big NTN boots/Freeride bindings setup or at the very least Scarpa T1/Race or equivalent boots with Bombers, 22Design Hammerheads or Axls or BD O1s. It'll be barely different than lockdown, since you'll be able to parallel at will. Your tele skills will not develop as fast or as thoroughly, or maybe never at all, but who cares if you're ripping (or at least not sucking too bad).

Believe it or not, I actually prefer the former route (start with inferior gear, work your way up only if you like tele), but that's just 'cuz I'm stupid and stubborn and justifying my own choices. However, if you're not patient, then that route would probably not work for you. Of course YMMV.

You have been a huge help in clarifying the choice to be made. Thanks!

[crash55]

Not being cute, HH#1, HH#2, HH#3, HH#4, HH#5 = five bindings in one, allows the beginner to decide what level of activity works for him/her. And I'm not getting how anything other than an underfoot cable binding could possibly be better for learning. (I'm excluding NTN cuz OP already has duckbill boots.)

I'm leaning in this direction; at my age, and only skiing 20-30 days a year I'm not sure if I have time or patience to master the technique with more classic bindings. I also like the idea of being able to parallel if necessary. Do the HHs have a free pivot?

[GeezerSteve]

Do the HHs have a free pivot?

No but Axls have a free pivot

[Meadow Skipper]

No but Axls have a free pivot

But, IIRC, only three points of cable settings (v. 5 for the HH)

Not a big deal - three's plenty - just being anal. The HH and the Axl are fine bindings.

[Flyoverland Captive]

But, IIRC, only three points of cable settings (v. 5 for the HH)

Not a big deal - three's plenty - just being anal. The HH and the Axl are fine bindings.

I sincerely doubt many users ever run HH's in 1 or 2, unless they're skinning up.

[Meadow Skipper]

I sincerely doubt many users ever run HH's in 1 or 2, unless they're skinning up.

Not here on TGR anyway.

[GeezerSteve]

Right. Axl#1 = HH#1.5; Axl#2 = HH#3; Axl #3 = HH#4.5 or something like that.

I knew a guy who always skied in HH#2. He liked a passive binding and underfoot cable. HH#2 would be fine for a fat fishscale meadow skipper setup (Voile Vector BC) although Switchback (reg or X2) would be the lighter setup and free pivot too.

ETA: I'm holding off on getting the Switchback X2s. Decided to try TTS for my Vector BCs. That will allow me to swap more easily to tech bindings for multi-day spring tours. (Unfortunately, Mark is out of some components, which are on back order.)

[dschane]

I also like the idea of being able to parallel if necessary.

That option always exists, and if weight is not a leading consideration, the Hammerheads or the Vice (the non-pivoting version of Axl) will suit you well. If touring may be in your future, the extra ~$100 for the Axl is well worth it.

[Flyoverland Captive]

I always figured that if someone preferred HH #1 or 2, they'd be better off with a lighter option. HH's are all about the power. Underfoot cables are nice, but I wonder if you can really tell the difference at low settings.

But then I'm a big burly manly TGR power-skier, so what do I know... ;-)

[GeezerSteve]

Underfoot cables are nice, but I wonder if you can really tell the difference at low settings.

I can, big time, e.g., I notice a huge difference between, say, HH#2 and Targa G3, the pivot points of which are in about the same place fore-aft.

If touring may be in your future, the extra ~$100 for the Axl is well worth it.

Or maybe learn on used HHs -- which can be had for cheapo -- and get SB X2s for touring. Axl is a nice design but oh so heavy for a light touring rig.

[Tri-Ungulate]

I'm leaning in this direction; at my age, and only skiing 20-30 days a year I'm not sure if I have time or patience to master the technique with more classic bindings.

Re: my last post - remember, it's all relative. T4s are waaay burlier than the leather boots many of us learned to tele on, and the current "simple" bindings such as Voile Hardwire (or switchback if you're touring more) or the Rottefella R8 are waay more powerful than the 3-pin with VP-1 or even the old BD Rivas that were state-of-the art back in the day.

What I'm saying is if you're a reasonably good alpiner, you should be fine parallelling on T4s and simple gear as you start out and learn the turn. Just remember that it'll be a bit more challenging than with burlier stuff, but that's part of the stoopid retro appeal of tele, and it does promote good technique, and fun turns if you're into all that . Lighter, less "active" boots/bindings might be more of a problem if you go with bigger fatter skis, but since you're on the EC, you'll prolly not need some humongous 120mm underfoot crudblaster, in which case the T4/Voile may be just fine for you (and generally for skis 95mm underfoot or less), depending on your ability, (and again, depending on your patience).

Disclaimer: I'm biased towards Voile, 'cause I ski with some of the Voile folks and they take good care of me, but they make fantastic product that reflects their motto: simple, solid, backcountry. 22Designs make great bindings as well, with the pro being they are adjustable and the con being they are more expensive, heavier and more complicated.

[frorider]

If you're on a budget and don't mind the challenge of a floppy system, keep your T4s. I have some 7tms stored away I'd sell u super cheap.

Otherwise, go ntn.

[GeezerSteve]

Otherwise, go ntn.

But he's already invested in T4s. I'll say it again: T4s in HH#3,#4 or #5 are not floppy. Short, yes. But not floppy.

Some good points, Tri-U. I too am a Voile fan and have been since the Wally/Charlie/Dwight days, I was one of the many beneficiaries of the original Voile Plate, which BTW acted much like an underfoot cable binding, and I'm currently a big advocate of Voile's fat fishscale skis. But I'm also a fan of Russ Rainey's designs : )

I agree with most of your points. Gotta say that IME an underfoot cable binding aids greatly when learning because the noob can more easily get the feel of loading the rear ski.

Looking forward to trying TTS.

[dark_star]

Put together a TTS setup towards the end of last season but only managed to ski it one day at the resort. Surprisingly (but in keeping with previous reports), it was very powerful, and almost a little too stiff for my tastes. That said, I can’t wait to try it out in the BC, seems like it has the potential to really be the best of both worlds. That being said, you can’t tele with TLT5s, and now I’m spoiled

But he's already invested in T4s. I'll say it again: T4s in HH#3,#4 or #5 are not floppy. Short, yes. But not floppy.

Some good points, Tri-U. I too am a Voile fan and have been since the Wally/Charlie/Dwight days, I was one of the many beneficiaries of the original Voile Plate, which BTW acted much like an underfoot cable binding, and I'm currently a big advocate of Voile's fat fishscale skis. But I'm also a fan of Russ Rainey's designs : )

I agree with most of your points. Gotta say that IME an underfoot cable binding aids greatly when learning because the noob can more easily get the feel of loading the rear ski.

Looking forward to trying TTS.

[frorider]

Agree Steve. But typing on a fucking mobile device gets old so I keep it short and avoid splitting hairs.

He wanted release. Hence the 7tm suggestion. I've skied every boot/binding combo under discussion here...pros/con's to all choices. These tele threads would be easier if we didn't have to rehash everything repeatedly.

[3boyzz]

Crash55, Sierra Trading Post has Garmont NTN boots in a 25 and 25.5 today for $258 with the AXE0456V code. I bought a pair myself this fall. I learned to tele in leathers in the 90s. NTN gives you unbelievable edge control, they are releasable and have brakes. If you get the Freerides they also have three mounting positions with adjusting a single screw.

My son wanted to learn to tele last year and instead of him using my old gear we got him his own NTN boots. I didn't want him cartwheeling downhill with skis still attached like I did!

Ebay has some decent NTN boot buys sometimes as well.

[XXX-er]

If you have never spiral fractured a tib/fib you don't need release, if you HAVE chances are you will have the opposite opinion

7TM aren't perfect but they do release pretty well but I don't think they make em anymore

if you want perfect or at least less pooey ...go AT

[crash55]

Agree Steve. But typing on a fucking mobile device gets old so I keep it short and avoid splitting hairs.

He wanted release. Hence the 7tm suggestion. I've skied every boot/binding combo under discussion here...pros/con's to all choices. These tele threads would be easier if we didn't have to rehash everything repeatedly.

Hey, if I'd found a relevant thread I wouldn't have put you guys through this...thanks for all the input. The choice between authentic tele old school with painful learning curve vs higher tech equipment is pretty clear to me now. Please don't feel like you wasted your time! All I need to do now is decide whether the feeling I get as more of a purist is worth the pain or not.

Cheers!

[crash55]

Crash55, Sierra Trading Post has Garmont NTN boots in a 25 and 25.5 today for $258 with the AXE0456V code. I bought a pair myself this fall. I learned to tele in leathers in the 90s. NTN gives you unbelievable edge control, they are releasable and have brakes. If you get the Freerides they also have three mounting positions with adjusting a single screw.

My son wanted to learn to tele last year and instead of him using my old gear we got him his own NTN boots. I didn't want him cartwheeling downhill with skis still attached like I did!

Ebay has some decent NTN boot buys sometimes as well.

That is an excellent bit of info, even if it does whip my head around 180 degrees back to the NTN consideration. I thought the boots would be double that price. Darn it, may have to consider that...

[3boyzz]

You will need the small NTN binding for a size 26 or smaller. They can be had for $175 brand new with a green spring.

[dark_star]

That is an excellent bit of info, even if it does whip my head around 180 degrees back to the NTN consideration. I thought the boots would be double that price. Darn it, may have to consider that...

PM hop, he was trying to offload some small NTN bindings not long ago. Maybe you’ll get lucky and he’ll still have them.

Just do it, go NTN, you’ll be glad you did.

[Cocximus]

Thx for the post tri-ungulate. I am picking up whatever pops up on craigslist for under $100 so I can eat snow with my GF

Here for $20. My grandpa's army issue tele boots are somewhere in his attic. Should work with these. No fucking clue what I am doing.