Help choosing tele bindings

[GeezerSteve]

Well I have no idea what bindings those are?

HHs, Axls or O1/O2, obviously, since he's already got duckbill boots (and thus NTN is out of the picture.) That's obvious to those of us who learned before underfoot cable bindings. The Pitbull, for all of its weaknesses, was much easier to learn on than anything else 20+ years ago, and then the HH came out and learning curves greatly steepened. We all watched it happening in real time back then.

Me me!!! (Raises hand.) Destroyed my lower leg with Hammerheads not releasing in like a 50-60MPH cartwheel

Sorry to hear it. I'm fortunate to have survived nearly two decades of skiing way too fast on tele gear. Now I'm past the danger zone: old, slow and on AT gear most of the time, tele gear for meadow skipping and the occasional tele night lift ski.

[LightRanger]

Sorry to hear it. I'm fortunate to have survived nearly two decades of skiing way too fast on tele gear. Now I'm past the danger zone: old, slow and on AT gear most of the time, tele gear for meadow skipping and the occasional tele night lift ski.

Thanks. Yeah, I got smart and switched to Dynafits and Dukes for inbounds (for boot sole compatibility purposes, for now). I still have a pair of brand new Alpina leather plastics (can't remember the model) that a customer gave me when I worked at The Co-op as an undergrad. I'll probably mount Switchbacks on some XCD skis and try it again in the future--though I developed a "Checkrein Deformity" that was only partly fixed surgically, so I'm not sure how successful tele turns will ever be again for me. Lunges with that leg back are challenging because my two big toes don't bend right. Meh. I'll probably try skating again this winter, as that's where I originally came from before this tele-alpine stuff.

[kc_7777]

Funny how this keeps popping up.....re alpiners going tele.

Me: long time alpine skier, also did 5 years as a snowboarder, am a surfer, windsurfer, SUPer.....looking at a 70 day ski season (semi sabbatical) figured "how hard can it be to tele" on the inbounds days. Would give me something to do with no fresh.

Bought the Mike and Allens Telemark Tips book. ebay $13

Talked to some on here and the Glacier Ski Shop boys. Decided I wanted stiff tele boots and NTNs, the "purists" at Glacier said I was not really tele'ing with NTNs and stiff boots. I don't care, I like to go fast.

I saw some brand new (they are new but stamped 2010s) NTN Freerides on Sierra trading post. Got them for $175 delivered.

Then went on an NTN boot hunt. Found some Scarpa Comps (24.5/25 shell = 291mm which is close to my 290mm Cochise alpine) on here for $70, no liner, no top buckle. Got em for $60 cause no buckle. Added a $35 booster strap, and my old Intuition powerwrap liners .

Glacier ski shop is mounting some new top buckles e Scarpa Comps on them week for $20.

Mounted them on some 185 Scimitars I had (128/98/121) , that have slight rocker...most of my alpine skis are rocker. I have skiied Scimitars in ice and they grip fine.

Total cost $175 binding + $115 boot + $299 ski.....no taxes or shipping:

[Cocximus]

I don't know if I agree with the above; it depends on what are you going to use these for? If you're skiing with your 4-year old at the resort and don't want to be bored tailing him/her down groomed intermediate slopes, T4's are fine. I've done that with Garmont Excursions. If you're going to ski the whole mountain, then I agree that T4's are a poor choice.

I was always tempted to give tele a try so I ski with my GF. Does it really make baby sitting fun?

I might just grab the first set that pops up in craigslist for less than $100...

[dschane]

Does it really make baby sitting fun?

Babysitting is never fun. If you're a parent, you voluntarily chained yourself to it, so make it as fun (or not un-fun) as possible. And flailing together is more fun than watching someone else flail while you silently count the number of days, months, years before you both can ski challenging terrain together. Opinions may vary.

[dschane]

HHs, Axls or O1/O2, obviously, since he's already got duckbill boots (and thus NTN is out of the picture.)

Well, we disagree that HHs. Axls, or 01/02 are "obviously" the bindings that will "best allow" a newbie to learn. If it works for your tutees, more power to you.

[hop]

Talked to some on here and the Glacier Ski Shop boys. Decided I wanted stiff tele boots and NTNs, the "purists" at Glacier said I was not really tele'ing with NTNs and stiff boots. I don't care, I like to go fast.

While nice enough guys, the "purists" at GSS have no room to talk about what is/is not telemarking. They're on Crispi XR or whatever the race 75mm race boots are (which are leaps and bounds stiffer than the TX Comp) and skiing with kayak paddles FFS!!!

[Meadow Skipper]

Talked to some on here and the Glacier Ski Shop boys. Decided I wanted stiff tele boots and NTNs, the "purists" at Glacier said I was not really tele'ing with NTNs and stiff boots. I don't care, I like to go fast.

Fuck them. Guys like that are a big part of what pisses people off about tele.

OP, go NTN.

[GeezerSteve]

Well, we disagree

So, what in your opinion, is the better duckbill binding for learning?

[kc_7777]

While nice enough guys, the "purists" at GSS have no room to talk about what is/is not telemarking. They're on Crispi XR or whatever the race 75mm race boots are (which are leaps and bounds stiffer than the TX Comp) and skiing with kayak paddles FFS!!!

Ya I've seen them tele'ing with the kayak paddles.....like the "lurks" of old.

I don't care what anyone thinks. I did my limited research and the Scarpa Comp boots / NTN bindings made sense to an ex-alpine guy. My NTNs are sweet even though they are 2010s. I have tried them on in the living room, nice walk mode, easy in and out, pretty burly.

Will report back after day 1 on this set-up.

What I like is that if tele turning sucks I can just alpine turn these NTNs and stiff boots.....hopefully right in front of some shaggy bearded dude with leather boots and 3 pin bindings.....

oh yeah, I also plan to barely drop my back knee!

K

[XXX-er]

Ya got the free heels and frankly I don't give a fuck how you ski them, how many poleplants you do or where you put your knee pads ...just go ski

[crash55]

Ya got the free heels and frankly I don't give a fuck how you ski them, how many poleplants you do or where you put your knee pads ...just go ski

YOU GUYS ROCK!!!

Never expected so many posts--no time to reply to all individually today, but will try to do so in the next few days.

You've given me lots to think about. I'm tempted to trade in the T4s for something more substantial, which I may be able to do. Unfortunately, I don't think I can get NTN boots in trade,but that does sound like a good option. I might just get a used pair or 7tns and upgrade the boots.

Anyway, really appreciate the feedback!

[crash55]

But it's not <1993 anymore and he's probably not skiing on a pair of Fischer GTS. Times have changed.

OP - if you're size 26.0 I have a brand new pair of Garmont Prophet NTN boots sitting in a box waiting to go for name-a-decent-price cheap. I think Axebiker has some L NTN bindings... assuming you're a halfway decent alpine skier already this (or something similar) would be a much better learning setup.

hop, I appreciate the offer; I'm a 25-25.5; I think the 26s would be too floppy, unless I need the extra toe room for tele vs alpine.

[hop]

They're certainly not floppy but it sounds like they might be too big.

[crash55]

well I learned on leathers which were replaced by t3's and t-1's, each time it was better and it would have been better to learn on the T-1, I don't think there is anything noble in suffering on old gear

Maybe the better question would be how much of a hill out east buddy is trying to make interesting ?

I haven't skied out east but I am thinking a big honking setup might be overkill someplaces??

My local hill is a little place called Blue Mtn, which boasts the highest vert in PA (1000')! A few decent pitches but basically blue runs by western standards. I wasn't planning to tele on trips out west, but if I really take to it, it would be nice not to have to buy a whole new setup.

[dschane]

So, what in your opinion, is the better duckbill binding for learning?

Not being cute, I just said earlier it depends. The alpine ripper would be well matched with the bindings you listed; the XC skier who wants to skip steeper/deeper meadows wouldn't. But, this all started with someone showing up with a pair of T4s and looking for a pair of bindings to mate them with. If he didn't know it, someone needs to say 3-pins or Switchbacks make the most sense. Reasonably, the chorus said get bigger boots 'cause you said you were going to tele at a resort. Can you go big with T4s, sure. Perhaps you do. I just wouldn't start there.

[crash55]

Not suggesting suffering on leather boots here.

Did OP said he's going to try to learn on 105mm waisted skis on EC lift-served slopes? That'd be kinda stupid. Anyway, I could turn 105mm skis fine in T4s in Axls in the most active setting in conditions that would call for a 105mm waisted ski (i.e., soft). T4s in HHs would be fine for learning. IME, T3s in HH#5 is more control than T1s in 7tM Powers. T1s in Targas is a joke on firm. It aint just about the boot.

I'm outa the office soon to buy Switchback X2s to be mounted on Voile Vector BCs, paired with my older T2s and T3s.

I got some old K2 "extreme" skis, about 90 waist and pretty soft, twin tips. Should be pretty easy to turn.

[crash55]

Not being cute, I just said earlier it depends. The alpine ripper would be well matched with the bindings you listed; the XC skier who wants to skip steeper/deeper meadows wouldn't. But, this all started with someone showing up with a pair of T4s and looking for a pair of bindings to mate them with. If he didn't know it, someone needs to say 3-pins or Switchbacks make the most sense. Reasonably, the chorus said get bigger boots 'cause you said you were going to tele at a resort. Can you go big with T4s, sure. Perhaps you do. I just wouldn't start there.

Yup, makes sense, dschane.

So, to my original question about the "springs" on the axls and HHs, what is their function?

[crash55]

They're certainly not floppy but it sounds like they might be too big.

Fraid of that. thanks anyway.

[MakersTeleMark]

Yup, makes sense, dschane.

So, to my original question about the "springs" on the axls and HHs, what is their function?

To get you high when you are low. Just a crutch in the tele world.

[crash55]

To get you high when you are low. Just a crutch in the tele world.

I get it, thanks...I guess dschane did answer that question in an earlier post.

[crash55]

Well I have no idea what bindings those are? I think it's case specific. I agree that since he bought the T4's, he ought to stick with them (assuming he can't return them for a full refund). He might realize telemarking is stupid and give it up.

Anyone whose watched accomplished tele skiers can't possibly think free heeling is stupid ;-)

[MakersTeleMark]

I get it, thanks...I guess dschane did answer that question in an earlier post.

All but untethered 3 pin binding utilize springs of some sort to absorb the forces on the bindings from the turn and provide activity if you want to be more precise.

Don't even worry about it, they are meaningless to you at this point in the game. Focus on just getting a decent pair of boots that are more capable than for meadow-skipping on modern skis. Then just pick anything, but focus on a free pivot if you are going bc/tour. That was a legit game changer, even when we thought back then that we had the tour advantage against the heavy clack clackers.

Seriously, there's not much to this pseudo hippy shit. Just get out there with a setup that is challenging, relevant - related to ancient technology (would you teach your daughter to drive in a model T (terminator)), and most importantly, comfortable.

And, embrace the fact and science that nobody gives a damn flying fuck that you tele.

You'll give it up in two years anyway. Trust me.

[Tri-Ungulate]

TL;DR version - go floppy if you want to learn what may (or may not) be fun about tele, go big if you just wanna be skiing the same shit, different gear.

So now that TeleTips is RIP, all the self-justfiying Telewhacker posts have migrated to TGR. That's OK, though.

Anyway. It totally depends on what kind of person you are, what kind of skier you are and what you wanna get outta tele.

1) If you just want to dink around, learn while hanging out with kids or beginner GFs or whatever while re-learning the fun of skiing, and if you're patient and interested then soft/floppy gear like T4 boots (or hell, even leather) is fun to learn on for the challenge of it, and will prolly make you a better tele-er in the long run if you recognize the limitations of the gear and are cool with learning the balance points whilst sucking mightily, at least in comparison to your alpine buddies or dudes/gals on heavy tele gear. Once you learn on floppy gear, you'll really appreciate bigger gear once you graduate towards it and you'll (arguably) be a better tele-skier in the long run, and may even learn to love "the turn" more than you ever could with lockdown heels. Cheaper route too, since you already have the boots. If you hate it, small loss, but if you're intrigued you can invest more time/resources/effort into it. In this case, as far as bindings, go with Voiles. Cheaper, lighter, more reliable and straightforward, and actually can be skied at an extremely high level (super committing lines with big boots and skis at high speeds) with the right technique. I hated my 7TMs and sold them as soon as I could; releasability is overrated, 'cause the bindings flop around so much, I think knees are potentially at less risk (arguable, of course). Got my only fib spiral fracture on releasable tele bindings (NTN if you're wondering).

2) If, on the other hand, you can't stand the thought of a long slog towards greatness (or even competence), and are not masochistic or stupid enough to work your way up the skiing ladder, certainly bigger is better from the onset, in which case go for a big NTN boots/Freeride bindings setup or at the very least Scarpa T1/Race or equivalent boots with Bombers, 22Design Hammerheads or Axls or BD O1s. It'll be barely different than lockdown, since you'll be able to parallel at will. Your tele skills will not develop as fast or as thoroughly, or maybe never at all, but who cares if you're ripping (or at least not sucking too bad).

Believe it or not, I actually prefer the former route (start with inferior gear, work your way up only if you like tele), but that's just 'cuz I'm stupid and stubborn and justifying my own choices. However, if you're not patient, then that route would probably not work for you. Of course YMMV.

[MakersTeleMark]

Believe it or not, I actually prefer the former route (start with inferior gear, work your way up only if you like tele), but that's just 'cuz I'm stupid and stubborn and justifying my own choices. However, if you're not patient, then that route would probably not work for you. Of course YMMV.

I resemble and echo this sentiment, while I am looking in front of me at my my kazama's, multiple tuas, seths with bomber's and explosivs too, carbon lhasa's, s3's, maven's, and death wishes. But, I don't care that I tele either, I just like to ski. I've got a closet full of old boots that I don't even know what to do with besides feel old, get drunk, and feel an overwhelming sense of nostalgia, which, by the way, can probably be said for any true skier here.

Have fun. And let Big Steve give you a clinic.