Help choosing tele bindings

[crash55]

Decided to try tele, so got a pair of Scarpa T4s to increase the interest level with resort skiing in the east. I think I want releasable bindings, which I'm finding are hard to come by these days. I may try to find a used pair of 7tms. Am I making a mistake worrying about releasable bindings?

I'm trying to understand how the different types of bindings will feel. Do the springs on the HHs and Axls produce resistance against the shin when leaning forward? If so, I would think that would be a big advantage in better edging and also maybe less tiring. Any advice much appreciated, amigos!

[MakersTeleMark]

I looked at your user date and am going to be completely honest:

T4'are like wearing a pair of slippers; try to get a T1/axle setup and you will learn to ski again and have fun squatting to pee. Don't torture yourself.

Don't do what you are doing. Your instincts of reaching out are justified. Buy some midfats, 90-100, get some real boots (that is all that matters), don't give a shit about the bindings, and have fun.

Seriously, T4's are like trainers. Get a boot, and start there. What size are you? I just gave a pair of T1's with intuitions and scarpa powerstraps to a person just starting today. I know me, and the collective, can help you out way more that the rootbeers that you have.

I'm serious. We are gay, but we are here to help. We have a 900 and 800 line. Call it.

[nickinbc]

Personally I wouldn't bother about release - UNLESS I was in avalanche terrain (which it sounds like you won't be). I have very very very rarely come out of the 7TMs on my tele setup and I have them set at at a release value so low that it would get me laughed off this forum! Usually falls with a free heel just don't torque things in quite the same way as with a fixed heel.

[dark_star]

This is good advice- if you’re trying to learn to carve turns on T4s on east coast ice all you’ll be doing is blowing edges and bruising your hips. Been there, done that, and boots make a world of difference.

Others may disagree, but if you can find a cheaper setup (and they’re often available on the forums), go NTN. You get quasi-releasability and the best torsional rigidity IMO. For a resort-only setup, there’s no reason to not at least consider it. But otherwise, if you’re going duckbill, BD push is a great choice, custom as well, although the latter are a bit on the stiff side for a beginner. Hammerheads/axls/vices/Bomber Bishops will all serve you well as bindings.

I looked at your user date and am going to be completely honest:

T4'are like wearing a pair of slippers; try to get a T1/axle setup and you will learn to ski again and have fun squatting to pee. Don't torture yourself.

Don't do what you are doing. Your instincts of reaching out are justified. Buy some midfats, 90-100, get some real boots (that is all that matters), don't give a shit about the bindings, and have fun.

Seriously, T4's are like trainers. Get a boot, and start there. What size are you? I just gave a pair of T1's with intuitions and scarpa powerstraps to a person just starting today. I know me, and the collective, can help you out way more that the rootbeers that you have.

I'm serious. We are gay, but we are here to help. We have a 900 and 800 line. Call it.

[axebiker]

Usually falls with a free heel just don't torque things in quite the same way as with a fixed heel.

While maybe not the same way, it can be just as severe - ask the guys around here with spiral fractures. Releasable, even non-DIN, is better than nothing.

To the OP - NTN in a resort setting is a great way to go. Too many benefits to ignore.

[jmedslc]

Agreed w above posters. T4 is a kids boot. Get a big 4buckle (or equivalent) boot and a 22 designs binding. if you're touring at all, get Axl. If not, then Hammerhead can be had for cheap these days.

lastly, if you're flush w cash (sound like not, but cannot tell), you might try the NTN setup. it's $$$$ to get into, but once you're in, you can swap the bindings from ski to ski and the ski performance - edge control in particular- is tough to beat.

as far as releasable bindings, i have never entertained the idea, but NTN will satisfy this criterion to some degree as well.

good luck.

oh- i might have a set of hammerheads kicking around that i could sell. would have to look though.

[XXX-er]

like me^^ yeah yer tib fib releases even if yer bindings don't

think of yer binding as what connects the boot to the ski don't obsess about how it feels

it will feel stupid anyways when you go back to fixed heel

[hutash]

The best tele bindings say A/T on them

[GeezerSteve]

T4 is way more boot than the boots all of us learned on <1993

[hop]

T4 is way more boot than the boots all of us learned on <1993

But it's not <1993 anymore and he's probably not skiing on a pair of Fischer GTS. Times have changed.

OP - if you're size 26.0 I have a brand new pair of Garmont Prophet NTN boots sitting in a box waiting to go for name-a-decent-price cheap. I think Axebiker has some L NTN bindings... assuming you're a halfway decent alpine skier already this (or something similar) would be a much better learning setup.

[GeezerSteve]

I was responding to those who are comparing T4s to slippers (which they are not) and those who seem to suggest that it is impossible to learn how to tele in anything other than huge boots

[BCMtnHound]

For resort skiing, I wouldn't go any softer than my T2X's. I keep my leather scarpas for highland touring, but I am finally upping my alpine game to 4 buckle TX Pros, and NTN (thanks axebiker!). I'm with the majority that if you are mostly going lift-served, I'd stick with a bigger boot, and make a choice between NTN and 7tm if release is a must.

So, if you are interested in some T2X's with powerwrap liners in a mondo 30.0 ....

[XXX-er]

well I learned on leathers which were replaced by t3's and t-1's, each time it was better and it would have been better to learn on the T-1, I don't think there is anything noble in suffering on old gear

Maybe the better question would be how much of a hill out east buddy is trying to make interesting ?

I haven't skied out east but I am thinking a big honking setup might be overkill someplaces??

[jmedslc]

I was responding to those who are comparing T4s to slippers (which they are not) and those who seem to suggest that it is impossible to learn how to tele in anything other than huge boots

bottom line for me is, big skis=big boots. i cannot expect to effectively drive a 105ish waist ski w Axl binding using a T4. there's just no way.

my buddy is trying tele and he's got some t2 Eco boots, line prophet 100s w Axl and immediately noticed that the boot is flexing too much when trying to drive the ski, in position 2.

of course, if you're on a 80waist ski w a voile binding, then i could see the point that a T4 is enough boot.

ymmv

[GeezerSteve]

Not suggesting suffering on leather boots here.

Did OP said he's going to try to learn on 105mm waisted skis on EC lift-served slopes? That'd be kinda stupid. Anyway, I could turn 105mm skis fine in T4s in Axls in the most active setting in conditions that would call for a 105mm waisted ski (i.e., soft). T4s in HHs would be fine for learning. IME, T3s in HH#5 is more control than T1s in 7tM Powers. T1s in Targas is a joke on firm. It aint just about the boot.

I'm outa the office soon to buy Switchback X2s to be mounted on Voile Vector BCs, paired with my older T2s and T3s.

[BCMtnHound]

Big Steve is going alpine in nordic gear?!? Say it isn't so!

[robrun]

http://www.bishopbindings.com/shop/the-bishop-20
Problem solved.
And yes, get proper boots. T1´s if you like Scarpa.

[dark_star]

Yes, problem solved… for $500.

Not to hijack the thread, but… this is a great binding and I’m glad to see it back in production, but $500?? That’s crazy!

http://www.bishopbindings.com/shop/the-bishop-20
Problem solved.
And yes, get proper boots. T1´s if you like Scarpa.

[XXX-er]

Well we all have bits of binding on the shelf in our shops cuz the stuff breaks if the bishop don't break maybe its good economy and don't they have a second ski plate or sft?



I just want to say at this point there are those of us out here who don't want anybody to start talking about technique or post how to tele videos or postulate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or what someone really means when they were smack talking blah blah blah...

[dschane]

I don't know if I agree with the above; it depends on what are you going to use these for? If you're skiing with your 4-year old at the resort and don't want to be bored tailing him/her down groomed intermediate slopes, T4's are fine. I've done that with Garmont Excursions. If you're going to ski the whole mountain, then I agree that T4's are a poor choice.

I wouldn't pair T4's with a 22 Designs binding. Those are powerful or very active bindings and I'd get a bigger boot or a different binding. People describe active vs. inactive differently (see the thread on telemarking is stupid), but you seem to generally understand it -- the binding will engage and create tension keeping the heel down on the ski, and yes, it makes for powerful edging.

If you get a bigger boot, 22 Design Bindings have a loyal and happy following.

I personally am partial to Voile Switchback or the X2 version (which is more active or powerful than the original) -- lightweight, simple, and strong enough. Can be paired with T4's and up.

Releasability. If you need it, your options include TTS and NTN, both of which, as far as I know, are not DIN rated but are designed to allow for a release. You would need to sell your T4's and buy new boots. Other options include release plates from Telebry (still being made I believe) or Voile (no longer being made), or the 7tm bindings (some love, some hate, and a lot laugh at).

In my view, if you absolutely need releasability, stick with alpine or AT. That is subject to change when/if I get the chance to try TTS or NTN.

[GeezerSteve]

I wouldn't pair T4's with a 22 Designs binding.

Have you tried it? I've got 100+ days in gen1 T2s (soft/short, like current T3s) and they work great. ETA:Hell, now that I think of it, I've skied a dozen days in Excursions in HHs with good results.[/ETA] No reason a T4 wouldn't work well in HHs or Axls in the right setting. When HHs first came out, the word among pinners was that the HH underfoot cable allowed one to use a smaller/softer boot, and we saw lots of other people on T3s and old T2s (like T3s) on HHs. Now it's all about huge tele boots. I agree that the Switchback X2 would be a much better match for T4s for touring, but HHs at lift areas might steepen the learning curve.

[dschane]

Never tried it. And I'm not saying it cannot be done; just matching a powerful binding with a soft 2-buckle boot would not be my recommendation. If it's for shits and giggles and the OP doesn't want to shell out coin for new boots, then yes, have fun with it b/c it can work just fine. I know folks who use very old T2's (2-buckle) with Hammerheads, but I can't say they rip it up. They have fun though.

[GeezerSteve]

very old T2's (2-buckle) with Hammerheads

My touring setup for a bunch of years. Anyway, OP already bought T4s, a sunken cost. So why shouldn't he be on bindings that will best allow him to learn?

ETA: Personal physiology has lots to do with it. I skied better on 3 buckle T2s than bumblebee T1s because the flex pattern of the former worked better for me.

ETA2: OP would probably have plenty o' fun w/T4s on Switchback X2s, a setup that would have been pure gold when I learned to tele.

[LightRanger]

While maybe not the same way, it can be just as severe - ask the guys around here with spiral fractures. Releasable, even non-DIN, is better than nothing.

Me me!!! (Raises hand.) Destroyed my lower leg with Hammerheads not releasing in like a 50-60MPH cartwheel (and I pretty much always bring it up when threads like this surface).

That said, I was fine with BD O2s and O1s until I started pushing it harder.

If I was going back to tele at a resort today, I'd go NTN with no hesitation. Edge power, adjustability, and at least a modicum of release, even if not as much as an alpine binding. They've been out long enough to find used now/on sale. For meadowskipping over hill and dale, I'd say Switchbacks because I'd be far less worried about a high impact crash.

[dschane]

My touring setup for a bunch of years. Anyway, OP already bought T4s, a sunken cost. So why shouldn't he be on bindings that will best allow him to learn?

Well I have no idea what bindings those are? I think it's case specific. I agree that since he bought the T4's, he ought to stick with them (assuming he can't return them for a full refund). He might realize telemarking is stupid and give it up.