"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
speaking of ugly^^^^^^^
rog
I don't talk like that. I do however enjoy the site and sounds of snow moving down mountain sides. watching the dust cloud rise into the sky. had he caught it on film it woulda been something to see. a coupla guys I know were skiing one drainage over when the slide occurred. they were amazed at the site of it. when we skied through the woods over to where the two guys were skiing, they were glad that I didn't die cuz doing some digging wasn't part of their tour plan for the day.
rog
This from the guy that spent his winter surfing 2' waves off the coast of Maine.Originally Posted by icelanticskier
How many days "up high" Rog? Bet you can count em' on one hand.
#HughConwayMatters
Uh oh, I missed out on more discussion of backcountry skiing because I was out . . . backcountry skiing:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...21#post4028721
No, not weird, but perfectly consistent.
First of all, I do not spend *any* course time indoors in winter during daylight hours.
Any avy course time during the winter daylight hours (pretty much all of which I use up each day) is spent ski touring (plus some rescue scenarios).
And my students get to see more avy terrain (not *away* from it as you describe it) than from any other Level 1 providers on Mt Washington.
(This is admittedly in large part b/c my course delivery model presents some problems for any commercial course provider who aims to attain any sort of reasonable and financially viable student volume. But I was very pleased to see EMS often getting up to Jacob's Ladder on Day 2 this year. Plus Jesse Williams was advertising a Daks kind of "L1+" that looked to have far more field time.)
But getting to the main point, yes, that's right, I use Mt Washington to teach avy courses in the winter, but I don't really care to ski much there in the winter.
My total winter avy terrain tally this year was 7 in our Presidentials (out of 18 total for the season) plus 5 in three other states (out of 12 total, across the winter, spring, and summer), which coincidentally represent the three more "traditional" avy climates besides our weird arctic maritime.
Of my 513,000' earned vertical for turns, yes, some very high % was ski area skinning or below-treeline backcountry in terrain that doesn't even have a treeline.
Sure, the Presidentials Range has plenty of high-quality turns much of the time at or above treeline. But I suspect the safety margin is much smaller for many of those supposedly safe tours than is supposed by the ski tourers. I have no desire to take that kind of risk, and the options for lower-risk routes just aren't really there, because of the combination of topography and weather.
In more detail:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6QM...it?usp=sharing
Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
seeing is different than being in. if there aren't the 4 ingredients present for the risk of avalanches, you aren't in avalanche terrain. you said it yerself, you have no desire to take that kind of risk.
not true. MC brings his students all over the mountain, even in burly conditions in and around avy terrain.(not *away* from it as you describe it) than from any other Level 1 providers on Mt Washington.
the risk up there is what you make of it. tons of options for low risk routes given the topography and weather. your 4 hour drive to the mountain is much more risky than most any day up high in AVY terrain so long as you can manage the terrain for the conditions at hand.Sure, the Presidentials Range has plenty of high-quality turns much of the time at or above treeline. But I suspect the safety margin is much smaller for many of those supposedly safe tours than is supposed by the ski tourers. I have no desire to take that kind of risk, and the options for lower-risk routes just aren't really there, because of the combination of topography and weather.
rog
Leading students in, through, and around avy terrain is exactly the kind of routefinding and decisionmaking that needs to be taught in avy courses, and that’s exactly what I’ve been able to do. (And admittedly, largely because I’m free from financial viable constraints, and have therefore been able to set up various requirements that limit the potential student pool to almost nothing, i.e., take an early March avy course by completing extensive reading, writing, and other assignments in . . . October. But I would like to see commercial providers offer a kind of two-tiered approach, which seems like what Jesse Williams was essentially trying to do with his L1+.)
We’ve been through this before. As much as we both respect MC, if you think that a L1 course for a random unconnected group of students (as opposed to, say, a course for an outing club or other group where the students already know each other) is typically doing anything other than just poking around at the base of one or two ravines during an entire three-day course, then you just don’t know what an avy instructor is up against out here. (And your incredulity at the trip report from a TGR poster this season – although certainly well merited – definitely revealed that. Consider yourself fortunate not to have to deal with all that. Kind of reminds me when as an NCAA alpine race coach I walked into all these PSIA clinics and one of their examiners had to give me a reality check of what a typical ski instructor typically encounters.)
Even out West, the debriefing for an AIARE L2 fatality was shocking, i.e., you can vet all you want yet a total b.s. skier might ruin it for everyone (or merely just himself in that particular case).
Agreed. And you have certainly demonstrated both extremes re before/after.
Three hours to my favorite trailhead there.
But agreed on the driving risk (whether to there or anywhere else in New England in winter conditions).
Yet also entirely irrelevant to the risk to be taken once safely arrived at the trailhead.
Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
right on. well I hope we get to ski together for at least one lap this winter/spring
rog
nobody cares that you count your vert bro
nobody is really "stuck" in east
it's a conscience decision to live where the skiing is meh to middlin.
Do you know anyone who ever failed an avvy class?
ps nobody cares you used to coach either,
but feel free to remind us every other post![]()
"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
yer right, nobody is "stuck" here. some of us prefer living here, or we would live elsewhere. I've never had ANYTHING holding me back. as you know I sampled the satch where you transplanted yerself to, what, almost 14 years back? (disturbing that you still kinda suck at skiing the pow after all those years, wasted), and you know what? ya sure the skiing was nice, but I would NEVER wanna reside there. skiing meh to middlin? have you ever even pivot skidded yer way around out here? ever been here?
I say let yer skiing do the talking 1st, bro. a bunch of shit is all it is.
rog
tell us more about your avvy expertise you gleened in your month in canada before mummy quit sendin livin the dream checks.
I think pinner nailed the arrie cert in this post.
don't know anybody out west that would waste time goin farther east than brolorado to ski
so hows come your bro didn't get the roj vrs the white wave of death shots
did he leave his camera in his pack to yo yo 1/4 laps with a shovel and probe.
if you go light you can get 5 1/4 laps
thats even more vert than 1 full lap
bobblehead avi logic 101 bro
"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
been livin completely on my own dime since I left high school. no mummy checks. anything else you wanna make up, beater?
then stfudon't know anybody out west that would waste time goin farther east than brolorado to ski
he was coldso hows come your bro didn't get the roj vrs the white wave of death shots
poor form to make digs at one of the most generous, thoughtful, and approachable avy educators/forecasters in Utah. not surprising tho coming from you. you are poor form.did he leave his camera in his pack to yo yo 1/4 laps with a shovel and probe.
if you go light you can get 5 1/4 laps
thats even more vert than 1 full lap
bobblehead avi logic 101 bro
rog
Usually I don't even read your posts, let alone respond to them, but since you took the time and care in this one post to use hard returns, and even some punctuation and capitalization, here goes:
1. I know you don't care how much vertical I record each season, but some of my backcountry buddies are into that. Plus I wanted to make the point that my winter touring on Mt Washington amounts to a very small percentage of all earned turns throughout my ski season, and I think the quantitative illustration of that is helpful.
2. Yes, except for a friend who had child custody issues, I don't know any skier who is truly "stuck" in the East in the sense of having no choice in it whatsoever. But for a signature block, I think it is a reasonable way of conveying the feeling many of us have here regarding are admittedly typical "meh to middlin" skiing that we put up with because of other reasons we choice to live here. (Notable exceptions to the typical "meh to middlin" skiing: the excellent untracked powder you can ski if you know where to go and have a flexible work schedule to get after it immediately before it quickly gets tracked up or crusted over; the Presidentials in good weather, especially later in the winter or early in the spring; numerous venues for rando race training, if you're into that; xc skate skiing, if you're into that.)
3. Yes, I do know people who have failed avy classes. Specifically, when I reviewed NSP avy course data (for another purpose entirely), I did see some "Fail" marks. And I have assigned some "Incomplete" marks to students that were essentially You're Going to Fail So Drop Out Now. Also, for L3 courses with certification exams, yes, the pass rate is not 100%.
4. I think the coaching reference was a useful analogy in my exchange with Roger. Intro-level avy courses (i.e., typically Level 1) are often very limited in the extent of touring possibilities because they have to cater to the lowest common denominator in terms of fitness + ability + gear of whoever shows up. Ditto for PSIA instruction. Contrast that with Roger's experiences with his touring partners and my experiences with ski racers, respectively.
Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Natures peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn. - John Muir
"How long can it last? For fuck sake this isn't heroin -
suck it up princess" - XXX on getting off mj
“This is infinity here,” he said. “It could be infinity. We don’t really don’t know. But it could be. It has to be something — but it could be infinity, right?” - Trump, on the vastness of space, man
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Natures peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn. - John Muir
"How long can it last? For fuck sake this isn't heroin -
suck it up princess" - XXX on getting off mj
“This is infinity here,” he said. “It could be infinity. We don’t really don’t know. But it could be. It has to be something — but it could be infinity, right?” - Trump, on the vastness of space, man
i don't understand.
b
.
^^^^^smart man.
i figured between working 4-8 hours a day, surfing 2-5 hours a day, along with life i'd have no extra time for fucking around on here. man was i wrong
you get out this week? been good all week.
rog
i'll be on it from 5-7am, or before the wind gets uncooperative.
then: http://www.swellinfo.com/surf-forecast/kennebunk-maine
fun surf right through the week. wind/tide/aspect depending. won't even need the longboard. always a bonus.
wednesday (in maine, 1/2 size in nh, usually the case) was insane at ogt. as you read. thursday was waist/chest meh but got some fun ones. yesterday am was about as fun as wednesday, easily. sleeper day fer sure. this morning...........yeah fkna good. holy moly.Wed seemed like it piddled out so I cancelled, only to read about your exploits in the 'goods' thread![]()
so get yer ass down here already. don't know if tomorrow will be worth yer drive, but.........
rog
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