Dogs SUCK

[Benny Profane]

Jezuz, man, what are you training those dogs for? Putting down a revolution or maybe a prison riot? Maybe I should just carry a flame thrower with beasts like that running around.

[lemon boy]

PP = Personal Protection.

[Bandogge]

PP (Personal Protection)

Although we do train for sport work as well (Sch, French Ring, PSA)

[Benny Profane]

PP??!! Are you fucking serious?! Who the fuck needs a dog like that? And how many times have they hurt innocent people? Like the closet full of guns the same paranoid fuckers probably own.

That is just wrong.

[Bandogge]

"Who the fuck needs a dog like that?"

Hummm. Let's see... Amoungst clients I presently, or have had:

- Victims of sexual assualt.
- Victims of physical violence.
- People whom are known in the community as business owners, gov't representatives...
- People in the direct threat-sphere of extremists (ie doctors whom work at abortion facilities, human rights activists...
- National discidents from such nice places as Serbia, Croatia, South Africa...

Please get in touch with me, and leave me your phone number, that I may get them in touch with you and you can PERSONALLY tell them why they don't need a dog trained in PP.

"And how many times have they hurt innocent people?"

No dog I have been personally responsible for training, nor any dogs I have worked with (Though not been the primary trainer) have ever had "bad" bites.
Of couse, three weeks ago, one of the American Bulldogs I train stopped someone from breaking into a bathroom window in the middle of the night, armed with a knife, rope and handcuffs, a long history of violent offences (Including home invasions and armed sexual battery) and a high concentration of Meth in his system... Incidentally, it was fatal bite. Of couse the fellow may have been "innocent" as you imply, and just out for a cup of sugar?

"Like the closet full of guns "

Nah, just a Benelli 20 gauge and a SW s40p.

"same paranoid fuckers"

Paranoid my friend, until you have to use the damn smoke wagon! Coming from someone whose been there, done that, and still has the t-shirt...

Amazing how all the anti-gun people have never been in a situation where a firearm meant the difference between life and most likely death. Easy to talk crap when you're sitting on the sidelines...

[Benny Profane]

Don't tell me.....you own a large and loud Harley, a way too big and probably black SUV, and smoked cigars.

I'm 52 years old, have lived in cities up to a few years ago all my adult life, (and in some funky neighborhoods), and have never felt the need to defend myself so. Sorry about the fear.

[DJSapp]

Strange that nobody has mentioned the old paperboy water bottle trick. As said dog is chasing you and getting close, grab your water bottle and squirt. The dog will stop to sniff, and you ride away. Worked like a charm when I was 12, but I don't know if this would work for a trained guard dog.

[Crinkle]

sweet jesus, reminder not to come near Bandogee's house without calling in advance

[Bunion 2020]

That these will not work on a truly determined dog.

Bullshit...

Anything that will stop a Grizzly Bear, and Counter Assault will stop a charging Grizzly Bear, will certainly stop a hound, no matter how determined.

http://www.counterassault.com/

I carry Bear spray on most rides where I live (Grizzly Bear Habitat), 20 miles from Yellowstone Natl. Park.

I have also been chased by dogs and have always relied on turning into the dog and attacking towards him.

[focus]

i guess a wild grizzly's more determined than a highly trained animal because....uh....it's bigger?

whatever dude, a highly trained dog is no joke... fortunately, the dog who's trained to shrug off pepper spray prolly won't be the idiot dog chasing me down the road.

[Benny Profane]

National discidents from such nice places as Serbia, Croatia, South Africa...

It's dissidents. And I just couldn't let this one go. I'm reminded of that video tape just released about a month ago of the Serbians herding young Muslims to the side of the road and in front of an impromptu firing squad with the help of nice little puppies. And how about the South African white police storming into the shantytowns of Johannesburg with adorable mutts on the leash. And, of course, who can forget those hundreds of pictures of Jews petting their favorite fido at Treblinka or Auchwitz as they happily walked into the gas chambers. And, oh yeah, let's not forget those nice snapshots from Abu Gharib.

I'm guessing those upstanding war criminals we would love to bring to justice in Serbia have a few trained animals "protecting" them tonight.

Sleep well.

[jayfrizzo]

All I know is, I'd hate to run into this beast on a ride.

[Spats]

I'm 52 years old, have lived in cities up to a few years ago all my adult life, (and in some funky neighborhoods), and have never felt the need to defend myself so. Sorry about the fear.

I'm sorry you think that everyone else enjoys the advantages of:

-not being old or infirm and living alone
-not living near cracked-out meth heads
-being male
-and having no violent ex-husbands or boyfriends
-having no personal or business enemies

I'm glad you've made it so far without any of the above -- but not everyone is as fortunate as you.

[vanilla gorilla]

dogs do not suck. lame dog owners who let there dogs run amock suck.

i confronted a dog owner recently. he laughed and asked me why the hell was i riding a bike.

it can make for some interesting interval work having a pair of hounds from hell chasing you down.

[Benny Profane]

Spats, get real, do you really think the market for attack beasts is little old ladys in bad urban neighborhoods? I don't think so. I'm guessing that the crack and meth people have a few more scary pets than the good people.

And what happens when the owner dies?

[Bandogge]

"And how about the South African white police storming into the shantytowns of Johannesburg"

You sir, have some nerve making the insinuations that you are without any information.

Encyclopedia -Political dissident-

"A dissident is a person who actively opposes the established order. The term is most often used to refer to political dissidents, usually against authoritarian regimes. Political dissidents usually use non-violent means of political dissent, including voicing criticism of the government,"

It's interesting that you brought up Johanesburg, as one of my best friends, whom first came to me as a client, came from there just a couple of years ago. Mr. Annan's family was basically butchered and hung up in trees for the scavengers to eat as protest against the downfall of apartheid one evening.

His brother, whom, apart from himself was the only memeber left alive of the immediate family, blamed local white politicians and campaigned for an inquiry with local media... Some years later being found dead in a house fire with no feet, hands, or genitals. Grant, (Friend in question) was then informed a closed bounty had been put on his head, and decided on that basis it would be best to flee the country.

Grant with his best friend in the world...




This is the kind of person I mostly deal with... Being people whom, through no fault of their own, have been involved in victimisation and chose as a result, to protect themselves within the bounds of local laws.

Nice to hear you have never been victim of violence, nor your family... It's not something to be wished upon anyone. Unfortuanetely, your situation is not universal, even in the Western world, and it is extremely arrogant of you to use your safety as justification for the striping of other's defences.

A criminal's favorite mark is a defenseless one.

Bunion wrote...

"Anything that will stop a Grizzly Bear, and Counter Assault will stop a charging Grizzly Bear, will certainly stop a hound, no matter how determined."

Bears are not trained phychologically, through repetition and the illusion of invisibility (In training, the dog learns if he fights hard enough, he will win, no matter what the odds.) that opposition can always be worked through. In fact, being wild creatures, they react very much in opposite, knowing that any minor physical injury/ damage could in the long run spell disaster/death.

That is central to the reason dogs with "the right stuff" will go through such severe opposition, and wild creatures will not, as a rule.


DJSapp wrote...
"Strange that nobody has mentioned the old paperboy water bottle trick"

We do water opposition work all the time. Here is one example.



By the way, Mr "Profane", I have not owned a powered bike in over ten years (Used to race 80 and 125cc mx as a kid), currently do not own a truck (Toyota Corolla Plus.) and have never smoked cigars... Players Light rgl.

Please do continue with the pigeonholing though, as it is always such an accurate way to portray someone.

[Benny Profane]

So the dude got a pit bull to ward off demons in his past? And he needs a few more friends, if that's the best he can come up with.

[Bandogge]

"So the dude got a pit bull to ward off demons in his past?

The dude got an American Bulldog (Nice try on the "pit bull" though... lol) to ward off any violence that comes with living in one of the poorest neighbhorhoods in the city.... That's what happens when you flee the country you inhabit to save your own skin... You are unfortuanetely not welcomed to take all your possesions/ assets with you.

"And he needs a few more friends, if that's the best he can come up with."

Grant has a secure house, thanks to his work... All windows have been bared and plated, all steel doors with multiple dead locking bars, ground and wireless comm. lines, no ground cover along the structure perimeter, motion sensoring equip, indoor alarm sys, firearms license, is trained in small circle jujitsu, and has training in knife arts as well.

You have made what, six assumptions in a row, each more false than the last?

Way to go!

[Bunion 2020]

Mr. dog, no offense intended I work around lot of trained search dogs that are well behaved and highly motivated but;

Grant has a secure house, thanks to his work... All windows have been bared and plated, all steel doors with multiple dead locking bars, ground and wireless comm. lines, no ground cover along the structure perimeter, motion sensoring equip, indoor alarm sys, firearms license, is trained in small circle jujitsu, and has training in knife arts as well.

Maybe Grant should have spent all that money on a new location and a moving van.

Back to the topic at hand. On your average everyday mountain bike ride it is unlikely you will encounter one of Mr. dogs trained attack pooches or an enraged Grizzly female with cubs. So, the paper boy water bottle trick or attacking back at the mangy flea bitten cur should do the trick. Last option is the become a sprinter of the Robbie Mcewen caliber.

[peterslovo]

I agree that much of the blame is on owner (and some on the pet), but at the same time, I think the rider can be to blame as well in certain situations. What i mean is, if you speed up to get away from a dog, the dog will usually give chase as part of the game, or in defense of their owner. Some owners I have spoken with said that their dogs are scared of bikes, and become aggressive around a fast moving bicycle.

In my own experience, when I see a dog (with an owner) up ahead or nearby, I slow way down to a cautious pace. I have even stopped on trails to let dogs/owners by. That seems to always keep the dog at ease - and multiple times, a dog owner has thanked me for being courteous and slowing down. Maybe I only have come across well behaved dogs, but that has worked so far for me.

[Bandogge]

Bunion,

Grant's job requires immediate access to his work site, which is next to his home. For economic, as well as business reasons, as his auto garage services some of the local part suppliers, he is bound to his present location.

This is a position not unlike that faced by many today, whom may now, or in the future, have enough capital to move to a safe neighbhorhood, but are bound by business ties, family ties... to the location they inhabit.

[jayfrizzo]

Benny,

You're losing this argument. Let it go, dude.

Bandoggie, I'm assuming if your dogs are trained to murder though a hail of small arms fire, they're also trained to stop killing on command? Are they? How do you do this while keeping them driven through deterrents?

Also guessing they don't chase down and eat every biker that passes by. How do they "know" who's a bad guy and who's an 8-year-old kid looking for his baseball?

[zion zig zag]

Bandogge 6, Benny 0.

[Bandogge]

Jayfrizzo,

Of course, all dogs trained in PP are thought the out... Meaning on command the dog is to desist bitting and either stay with the decoy and guard, or return back to the handler.

This is one of the most important aspects of PP... Spotless OB.

"How do you do this while keeping them driven through deterrents?"

Dogs that are of proper temp to do man work do not loose drive when working outs. In fact, many dogs in time display more elements of fight and strong prey which comes with out-guards and the continuing will to bring the fight to the man. Anyone whom associated drive loss with the ability to cleanly and consistently out should not be doing this type of work.

"Also guessing they don't chase down and eat every biker that passes by. How do they "know" who's a bad guy and who's an 8-year-old kid looking for his baseball?"

This is a combination of owner resposibility and the dog having a proper temp/ re-inforced with proper training... A dog that chases a kid is breaking leash laws, containment laws, and should be taken away from his owner. There is no excuse for irresponsible ownership, even less in the case of dogs capable of stopping a fully grown adult.

A dog properly trained in man work sees the difference between a child looking for a baseball and someone trying to break into your car... All dogs worth feeding do.

Furthermore, it is very rarelly, the exception being direct violent physical contact, such as a shove, punch... left to the discretion of the dog to initiate anything. This would in fact be counter-productive to PP as most real threats tend to be passive in nature (ie, someone calmly asking you for your wallet, lest he take out the shooter he has stashed in his belt and shoot you.)

The dog is reacting to a very distinct set of behaviour/circumstance, or your command. Anything else, should the dog have been trained properly and be of proper temp, will not incite aggresive response.

[lemon boy]

Benny WTF?

Me personally, I find Bandogge's posts universally enlightening and fascinating. A perspective you don't often get. It is obvious that he knows this topic extremely well and people who're willing to invest so much time effort and money into getting a trained pp dog are clearly not your crackhead neighbor with a "pit."

oh and you're coming off the worse for where on this one dude, by a ways.