Smart PNW idea...NSR/Political

[scoober]

That's from the 1 day a year where it snows half an inch in town and everyone dons chains - and leaves them on until 4 days after the melt.

Or the 56 year old women who drive around with studs on their 1991 Camry all season. Yeah, somehow I don't think they're driving up to any of the passes every day.

[VTskibum]

Driving out on the Western Washington freeways I notice the huge friggin tunnels/channels/ruts that get created from this. We've got alot of traffic around here, but I couldn't believe how deep those ruts were on the Freeway. Felt like I was in a small boat crossing another boats wake sideways.

(Then again it coulda been the shitty rental cars I kept getting)

[1080Rider]

Driving out on the Western Washington freeways I notice the huge friggin tunnels/channels/ruts that get created from this. We've got alot of traffic around here, but I couldn't believe how deep those ruts were on the Freeway. Felt like I was in a small boat crossing another boats wake sideways.

(Then again it coulda been the shitty rental cars I kept getting)

No, that's how it feels in all vehicles. I think its a little worse over here. I-90 through spokane is TERRIBLE!!!

I was talking to a buddy who's an engineer. He's convinced its from studs. I wondered if any of it was poor preparation of the ground below the pavement/concrete. He advised that it was from the metal in the studs wearing down the road. We NEED TO BAN STUDS!!! We are destoying our roads. There is no need for studs anymore. The current studless snow tires are superior to the old studded tires. Email your state rep, there have been a couple bills proposed but I think they die every term. We need to get one passed!!!

[Chronic]

I agree - studs are bad news. In my old Civic driving the freeway was like being on rails. Sucked even worse in the rain when the ruts would fill with water. But back to the issue, splitting up the state would be a bad idea. The perception may be that W. Washington sucks up all of E. Wa's tax dollars, but I strongly suspect that in reality there is a net outflow of tax dollars from W. Wa to E. Wa. Also, King County did not dictate the election. Plenty of people in E. Wa voted Democrat, just like plenty of people in W. Wa voted Republican. I like Wa as it is - both sides need to chill and work with each other.

[DBdude]

[QUOTE=1080Rider]I think that's the point. Its beleived that we don't get our share of the tax $$$.

there is no tax base ove there. the perception is wrong

[Jumper Bones]

Also, King County did not dictate the election. Plenty of people in E. Wa voted Democrat, just like plenty of people in W. Wa voted Republican. I like Wa as it is - both sides need to chill and work with each other.

I call bullshit on that - Rossi was clearly ahead until King County finished "compiling" their votes, and they had 3 chances to get it right.

Considering how dismissive the in-house dems in Olympia (and the dem appointee judges in the courts) have been in investigating anything to do with the election, I say fat chance on anybody chilling and working with each other. The state dems in King County can only have it one way, their way. And the I-5 corridor is completely different from the rest of the state.

[Rusty Nails]

I for one am glad that an urban center of educated professionals somewhat dictates policy to a bunch or rednecks cookin' meth in a trailer in E. Wash. Just kidding. Okay, not really.

Seriously -- As Joshbu pointed out, our bi-cameral congressional system is outdated and crap. CA -- you wanna know where you money goes per capita -- look no further than Alaska! The amount of money that resource rich state drains from the rest of the country is amazing! The point is, a representative democracy should be population based, not focused around outdated geographical constructs that have had their usefulness and necessity continually diminished.

Of course, no matter what we do, those elections will be bought and paid for by the corporate whores and the profits they worship. Democracy as an ideal will still fall second to capitalism. Modern capitalism wields unbelievable power in the hands of the very few and will continue to undermine true democracy in this country until the paradigm shifts.

Damn the man,

Rusty

[laseranimal]

upstate NY vs NYC is the same thing btw...

I'm sick of my tax dollars going to Democratic pet projects in NYC(west side stadium) while our schools up here get shafted out of money they desperately need, hell I'd give NYC 6 more senators if we could just be rid of them. Sure we'd lose $ in the long run but at least our tax money would be spent where we'd actually get some use out of it.

[lameduck]

Rusty where did you learn this? Sounds really interesting, can you tell more of post some links to articles?

[1080Rider]

I for one am glad that an urban center of educated professionals somewhat dictates policy to a bunch or rednecks cookin' meth in a trailer in E. Wash. Just kidding. Okay, not really.

Rusty

Gregoire, Sims, Jackie Chan (or whoever that last governor was), these are not the people to be dictating policy. And just to prove that we're less into drugs than you guys, in 2001 we busted 80 meth houses, pierce county busted 800.

But seriously, Rusty is right. I don't exactly blame capitalism but rather the politicians themselves. The presidency, and I'd venture to guess, every office is for sale. The person who raises the most $$$ usually wins. The $$$ can be raised anywhere. If a guy gets $50 from every elderly person in his district and opposition gets less $$$ from the tobacco Co.'s then the guy pandering to the elderly will win. Its a huge flaw.

The next problem for WA is the new election law that was passed. We now will only vote for the two top vote getters. We will never see a green party member or libertarian on a ticket, EVER! That is completely fucked up. We will be forced to vote D v R, or D v D, or R v R. How's that going to taste for King County the first time they have to chose between a Republican or Republican for governor??? We live in bad political times people...

[joshbu]

I agree - studs are bad news. In my old Civic driving the freeway was like being on rails. Sucked even worse in the rain when the ruts would fill with water. But back to the issue, splitting up the state would be a bad idea. The perception may be that W. Washington sucks up all of E. Wa's tax dollars, but I strongly suspect that in reality there is a net outflow of tax dollars from W. Wa to E. Wa. Also, King County did not dictate the election. Plenty of people in E. Wa voted Democrat, just like plenty of people in W. Wa voted Republican. I like Wa as it is - both sides need to chill and work with each other.

Holee sheet it's a Chronic sighting. How you been man? How's CA treating ya?

[cj001f]

CA -- you wanna know where you money goes per capita -- look no further than Alaska! The amount of money that resource rich state drains from the rest of the country is amazing!

The libertarian state with the highest number of federal employees per capita Eastern WA's so dumb they thought the office of Speaker of the House would reside with them after voting Thom Foley out of office.

Seriously, splitting the state's never going to happen.

[Jumper Bones]

so far, I have noticed that all of the opposition to this idea, and 100% of the disparging and belittling comments, are coming from urban residents, in the Puget Sound area and elsewhere. Most of whom consistently vote democrat.

Which is precisely why Eastern Washington wants (and deserves) their own state.

Unless this is all a big fucking joke whose humor I completely missed. Wouldn't be the first time.

[1080Rider]

Gee, we're just simple folk. We just want to be left alone w/ our guns and moonshine...

[Samwich]

Gregoire, Sims, Jackie Chan (or whoever that last governor was), these are not the people to be dictating policy. And just to prove that we're less into drugs than you guys, in 2001 we busted 80 meth houses, pierce county busted 800.

yeah, but Pierce County isn't exactly representative of Western Washington. It's a backwoods county that just happens to have the largest number of meth lab busts annually than any other county in the USA. The best thing that can be said for Pierce County is the skiing. And I wonder why it's called Crystal Mountain...?

About the tax issue: The stadiums are definitely bullshit. It's not that Western Washington decided to keep all the tax money for itself, improved everything really important, and then thought, 'well hell, we could use a couple new stadiums, and FUCK eastern Washington!' I know it seems that way, but the fact is, a lot of morons voted for new stadiums basically because the teams were bitching about how shitty their stadiums were. Our Public Schools are drastically underfunded. The annual science budget, per student, per year for Seattle Public High Schools is something like 30 cents. It doesn't even cover the costs of paper and ink for the lessons that have to be printed up. But the stadiums look great.

[cj001f]

Which is precisely why Eastern Washington wants (and deserves) their own state.

So you can suckle on the federal teat without competition from W WA?

[Rusty Nails]

Again, the fundamental argument is stupid. It is the same in every state. In North Dakota, the people in the western part of the state are continually upset by policy being dictated by the liberal and urban sophisticate intelligentsia in Fargo. Soooooo, should every state split in two?

Why not get rid of states and develop population-based congressional districts with NO state boundaries? Spokane could join Idaho and W. Montana? Would that be more representative?

Then, let's stictly control campaign finances so that no one has to pander to special interest and 95% of elections won't simply be won by the person who spends the most money. We can actually become an electorate of ideas rather than advertising.

[fiddler]

Right wing wacko republicans are idiots, period. If there are any other kinds of republicans they need to speak up.

[Lone Star]

Only time I'm thankful that those shit eaters are so damned proud of their state.

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Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. Not exactly the models of wealth and prosperity or rich public funding.

Yet, but with the huge increase in the amount of natural resources taken from these states in the past few years, that could change.

[Jumper Bones]

So you can suckle on the federal teat without competition from W WA?

I'd believe the fed money'd still go to W WA.
Ain't nothing, besides farms and Spokane, in E WA. Except for Hanford, in the Tri Cities.

Other than that...what would get federal money? I-90?

[cj001f]

I'd believe the fed money'd still go to W WA.
Ain't nothing, besides farms and Spokane, in E WA. Except for Hanford, in the Tri Cities.

Other than that...what would get federal money? I-90?

Whatever the politicians want? That's why there's a Bud Schuster Highway leading to the Bud Schuster Byway, going to the Bud Schuster Airport in Pennsy - because Bud was on the transportation committee and he wanted them. I-99 the 58 mile interstate that services the bustling metropolises of South Central, PA

There's a perception in rural America that a majority of federal spending goes to urban areas - it doesn't. The populus urban states, in general, get proportionally less in federal spending than they pay in taxes while the rural states like Alaska get substantially higher federal spending.

[joshbu]

I'd believe the fed money'd still go to W WA.
Ain't nothing, besides farms and Spokane, in E WA. Except for Hanford, in the Tri Cities.

Other than that...what would get federal money? I-90?

Eh? who gets more federal subsidies than farmers?

You still haven't answered the postulate that state are antiques anyways.

[cj001f]

Yet, but with the huge increase in the amount of natural resources taken from these states in the past few years, that could change.

Resource extraction, always a source of long term wealth for local community's. Especially mining.

[grrrr]

I say let them go. People in Eastern Washington have no clue how good they have it.

I live in San Juan County where we pay the highest per capita taxes in the state, and in return we get just about the lowest return. How about that gasoline tax for transportation, hunh? We pay it, but because we are the only county in the state with no state highways, its bye-bye to that money. Or the $140,000 in forest protection assessments we pay that by and large go to fight wildfires in Eastern Washington.

Of course, we don't have to pay tab fees anymore. Yeah! Instead, the cost of a ferry ride has gone up 400%, while ferry schedules and services have been cut. Of course, the cost of driving over the 520 bridge, or from Davenport to Spokane has gone up 400% in the same time, right?

But I say, let them go--but only if we can secede from both Washington and the USA and annex into British Columbia.

[joshbu]

But I say, let them go--but only if we can secede from both Washington and the USA and annex into British Columbia.

Not to burst your bubble, but this would amount to a pretty largish tax hike, not cut...

Of course your commute time to Whistler would go down, so it's not all frowns.