Hey Splat or Others...Differences Between Current Hybrid Lhasa and Old All Carbon

[irul&ublo]

I have a pair of all carbon Lhasas bought off schindlerpiste. What are differences (other than cosmetic) between those and the new hybrids?

[Nic.A]

2mm in the tail for the 191s. IIRC.

[splat]

I can see how it would be confusing, so here's our carbon history. The differences are - when we first started to add carbon, we added a thick 4 inch wide strip of unidirectional carbon down the middle of the skis tip to tail. That was like 6 or 7 years ago. We then went to a thinner unidirectional carbon that went edge to edge top and bottom. After that we went to different weaves that go all the way across and the length of the skis on different axes (45/45 and 0/90).

But the clear topsheet does not mean it is pure carbon fiber on a wood core. The skis are still hybrid, meaning they have a light layer of fiberglass and a thick layer of carbon fiber both above and below the core. They have more carbon than glass, which is why our cores are thin and weights low. However, if the carbon layer you see through the clear topsheet looks like it's running at a 45 degree angle, it is actually a 0/90 weave. That is how you know it's a hybrid. The pure carbon fiber on wood skis, have a layer of that carbon weave and then another, much trippier weave that is actually 45/45 carbon fiber on top of it. That is PM Gear's trademark all carbon ski. The 45/45 is the same carbon they use to build satellites and one of the reasons the skis are expensive. We've had rocket scientists come by to see the carbon they sent into space in a ski. It was a nerdiffic experience.

This pic shows the two different carbon weaves, 0/90 on the bottom and 45/45 on top, these being on top of the core and another two weaves the same between the base and the core, that make the ski a pure carbon fiber on wood core ski. This means the pure carbon fiber skis have quadraxial strength on four axes. The hybrids are quadraxial but their 45/45 strength comes from the fiberglass.



This is what the pure carbon skis look like after they are pressed:



And this is what the hybrids look like:

[Chugachjed]

Mine are hybrids? It's so hard to tell, don't care either way they're light stiff and I love them. My topsheet looks like bottom one in the shot where you're applying resin though? hmmm

[splat]

Yes, that's the cloth on the hybrids, Jed.
That aerospace 45/45 carbon is so hard to work with in ski width lengths, we just went to a sheet that would span both skis in the mold and cut it after pressing. In a six inch width, it's squirrely crazy and damn near uncontrollable. This is also what it looks like.

Attachment 128178

[N1CK.]

just chiming in to say the red / black looks tits.


carry on.

[irul&ublo]

Mine is the older top sheet...bought I think 3 seasons ago, they were demos from schindler. 186. What would performance differences be compared with current versions?

[auvgeek]

FWIW, the picture splat posted of the pure carbon weave does not, in ANY WAY, show off how awesome/trippy that ski looks in person.

It's one of those weird things that just can't be captured well with a camera.

[splat]

Mine is the older top sheet...bought I think 3 seasons ago, they were demos from schindler. 186. What would performance differences be compared with current versions?

The ones now are just a bit stiffer, I imagine. I know the weave is a bit thicker.

[BaNosser]

This is a pic of the all carbon Lhasa with a 45/45 carbon fiber weave under the topsheet. It's much, much cooler than it looks. In fact, these skis are still cooling, since they were pressed only an hour ago. We've been pressing like crazy and will get the first run finished, then take some clear pics that don't have so many reflections. The all-carbons seems extremely light. duh. But I'll have to get them finished for the final weights.



Rough finished the all carbon 186s today. For the first pair in an all new layup, they came out great. Topsheets are a hair off, there's some finger smudges on them in the closeup, but they'll wipe right off. Since they're the first pair, I can live with that. The overall characteristics rock. Good stiff flex, perfect camber and an inkling of what we will do in the future....and the weights.......!

3.7 lbs /1,700 grams per ski.

[auvgeek]

^^Weights are getting to be downright absurd.