Help a DSLR noob pick a camera!

[RonMexico]

I am totally new to the DSLR game and any manual photography for that matter. It's basically been point-and-shoots only for me so far. I'm ready to step up and get a better camera and want one I can really grow into. I see insanely good pictures all the time and will be making a concerted effort to learn and get the most out of whatever camera I buy.

The majority of shooting will either be outdoor activities (skiing, biking, fishing) or landscapes. I'm sure my girlfriend will make sure I take plenty of shots of our dog as well...

I also want a camera that offers great video capabilities. I love making edits (skiing specifically), so video quality and other premium video features (continuous AF) are important to me.

As most of the shooting will be done outdoors, the ability to stand up to inclement weather would also be a nice plus.

I would like to keep the total cost to around $900 or under. I'm also going to buy new. I know there's some smoking used deals out there, but I'd rather not go that route.

Lastly, getting a number of lenses right at the beginning isn't important to me. I'd rather spend the money on a better camera unit with one lens and pick up additional lenses down the road as I start to improve and understand what I really need for the shooting I am doing.

Any thoughts/suggestions you could provide would be greatly appreciated!

[Tye 1on]

i'm a photo jong, can't hardly even spell pikcher, but a bunch of us pitched in on a gift and settled on the Canon T3i. $600 new but dropped another hundo on case/card/etc. Seemed like it had advanced features to access, but still fairly idiot-proof. Not that you're an idiot. Or aren't...

[bfree]

There are quite a few threads on this with similar budgets and requirements.

I'd at least encourage you to buy refurbed. Buying brand new camera gear is just plain stupid if you're even somewhat $$ limited. $900 isn't going to get you very much at retail prices. In fact, the cheapest Canon with continuous AF is the T4i at $900 even.

Or 7D's are starting to go for around 900 used...

[outabounds]

D7000 with a 50mm 1.8D
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...mera_Body.html
If you take shitty photos with that, you won't be able to blame your gear.

[sklar]

continuous AF on a dslr is a joke.

[systemoverblow'd]

continuous AF on anything is a joke (especially on anything with a wide aperture).

[RonMexico]

continuous AF on a dslr is a joke.

Why, just doesn't work well? When people film skiing on a DSLR are they manually focusing the whole time? (I told you I was a noob!)

[bfree]

Sometimes yes. Or more frequently just using a large depth of field and not changing focus at all.

[systemoverblow'd]

Sometimes yes. Or more frequently just using a large depth of field and not changing focus at all.

Yup. Since you usually have to stop down DSLR lenses anyway shooting outside in daylight, major focusing is moot. To shoot at a wide aperture during the day you usually need ND filters.

[Tye 1on]

Yup. Since you usually have to stop down DSLR lenses anyway shooting outside in daylight, major focusing is moot. To shoot at a wide aperture during the day you usually need ND filters.

so, given that, what would you recommend, either for cameras or must have/don't need features? Only asking as i may end up in this market as well, and still can't spell picher.

[RonMexico]

Yup. Since you usually have to stop down DSLR lenses anyway shooting outside in daylight, major focusing is moot. To shoot at a wide aperture during the day you usually need ND filters.

I'm so fucking lost already...

[smmokan]

Most of today's DSLRs will focus just fine if you're taking pictures of skiing... just make sure you have a good lens that can keep up. I'd recommend a refurbed camera- the deals are too good to pass up. Check out the Canon 60D or T4i, both around $500-600. Then use the extra $300 for a lens or two. The standard "beginners" lens kit is the Canon 18-55mm IS and the 55-250mm IS. Personally, I'd recommend a one-lens solution if you're going to be using it while hiking, skiing, etc. Check out the Canon 18-135mm or the Sigma 18-125mm OS HSM lenses. Both great lenses for <$300 (used).

[systemoverblow'd]

so, given that, what would you recommend, either for cameras or must have/don't need features? Only asking as i may end up in this market as well, and still can't spell picher.

There are so many options depending if you want to go used or new. If you would rather skimp out on the body and get better lenses or would rather buy a nice body and crappy lens and upgrade later.

I'm so fucking lost already...

Here's the deal. When dealing with exposure you have ISO, shutter speed and aperture (small numbers are bigger aperture and let more light in). Adjusting one in one direction means you have to adjust another to compensate. The bigger the aperture (smaller the number) the shallower your DOF which is what is in focus. The smaller you make your aperture, the more of the scene is in focus. If you are shooting stills at ISO 100 and want a wide aperture (f/2.8 or bigger) you will adjust the shutter to make up for this. When shooting video on a DSLR you can't adjust the shutter (unless you are doing something artsy). So if you are at ISO 100 and shutter speed 1/50 (for shooting at 24p) the only thing you can adjust to expose correctly is you aperture. In bright light you will have to stop down your lens which will reduce DOF and make sure almost everything is in focus. So in bright light for video, the majority of the image will be in focus naturally. If you want that shallow DOF (less is in focus) for artistic purposes you usually need to let less light in by using neutral density filters.

I probably didn't help your confusion at all... haha.

I would suggest reading "Understanding Exposure." With consumer video cameras you have to know a lot less. Shooting video on a DSLR means you have to understand these concepts as you will be shooting manually.

[Tye 1on]

Most of today's DSLRs will focus just fine if you're taking pictures of skiing... just make sure you have a good lens that can keep up. I'd recommend a refurbed camera- the deals are too good to pass up. Check out the Canon 60D or T4i, both around $500-600. Then use the extra $300 for a lens or two. The standard "beginners" lens kit is the Canon 18-55mm IS and the 55-250mm IS. Personally, I'd recommend a one-lens solution if you're going to be using it while hiking, skiing, etc. Check out the Canon 18-135mm or the Sigma 18-125mm OS HSM lenses. Both great lenses for <$300 (used).

awesome, thanks!

[systemoverblow'd]

I'm so fucking lost already...

Let me try to explain it a little better. Exposure is letting in a certain amount of light. ISO is the sensitivity of the sensor, Aperture is how wide the opening of the lens is and shutter speed is how long the shutter stays open. A faster shutter "freezes" action while a slower shutter causes blur. I wider aperture (smaller number) means less is in focus while a smaller aperture means more is in focus (not to confuse but distance to object matters as well).

Say I have a properly exposed shot at ISO 100, aperture of f/4 and shutter speed of 1/200. Now say I want to make more of the image in focus. Say I stop down my lens to f/8 (2 stops). Each stop lets in half/double the amount of light. So I need to make up for those 2 stops by increasing my ISO or keeping my shutter open longer. So I could shoot the same exposure at ISO 100, aperture f/8 and shutter of 1/50. Or I could shoot at ISO 400, aperture of f/8 and shutter speed at 1/200. Or even adjust both.

ISO 100, f/4, 1/200 - more depth of field
ISO 100, f/8, 1/50 - slower shutter speed may cause more blur
ISO 400, f/8, 1/200 - higher ISO sensor sensitivity may introduce noise
ISO 200, f/8, 1/100 - mix of the two.
= the same exposure but with different results in the image regarding blur possibilities, image noise and the Depth of Field.

So, with shooting video you usually want to keep your ISO down as low as possible, usually 100. You shutter has to double (half) your fps so 24fps = 1/50, 30fps = 1/60, 60fps = 1/120. Given that you don't want to change your ISO much and you shouldn't adjust your shutter your only option is to increase or decrease the amount of light coming in through your lens aperture. In bright light at these setting you will have to have a small aperture which will also increase your DOF making more things in focus. To obtain a narrow DOF and make it so less is in focus you have to let less light in by using filters.

I dunno if this makes sense…

[RonMexico]

I probably didn't help your confusion at all... haha.

Not at all - that actually helped. I wondered why I see people skiing (especially park) and filming with DSLRs. I figured they're not all autofocus so it would only make sense that the way it is filmed keeps a much larger area in focus.

So it would seem the bottom line is that I should be less concerned about AF in video mode and more about the overall capabilities of the camera?

The D7000 that someone posted above seems like a good deal (I know, probably not compared to a used one...), but I was surprised to see it didn't film in any resolution at 60fps. I like having that option with skiing especially for super slo-mo shots.

smmokan recommended the T4i and 60D, which I was also looking at. BandH has the 60D and a Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Lens for $898. Seems like a pretty good deal to me, but what do I know...

[systemoverblow'd]

All of those are solid options. The 60D is more modeled after the pro bodies but is still a consumer camera. The 60D, the t4i, t3i and t2i all have the same sensor (along with the 7D). The newer ones have better noise handling at higher ISO's due to the proc. Some like that the newer ones have articulating screens. That doesn't much matter to me. If you're getting a mic and plugging it into the body, you can adjust the audio manually with the 60D and the t4i (maybe the t3i too?). If you're not, don't worry about it since the built in mic blows dog anyway.

Not up to snuff on all the Nikons so I'm not going to pretend like I am. I know they hold their own against the Canons. Canon has had the video market pretty much locked but Nikon is catching up fast.

Really, for what you are doing I think you probably wouldn't be disappointed with any of the cameras listed so far in this thread.

[sklar]

keep in mind stabilization if you're going to be shooting a lot of video
handheld/poorly stabilized dslr footage looks like poop

[RonMexico]

Seems like it's down to the Canon T3i and 60D or the Nikon D7000. Price is attractive on the T3i, but I get the feelin it would be worth it to spend the extra couple hundred dollars and step up to a better camera. From the T3i reviews I've seen, it seems pretty entry level in terms of features. The 60D sounds like it has better video quality and D7000 wins in the photo department. Any further thoughts?

[horizon]

Have you tried holding them in your hand? On paper and comparing features, I was seriously thinking of getting the Nikon D7000, but every time I handled a Canon I preferred the feel and the layout of controls, so went with a 60D (It's arriving tomorrow!)

For others of course it's the other way round, Nikon just fits better. You should try to hold them if you can.

[Tye 1on]

Interesting comparison on the Canon's here, great comments below the reviews.

[RDiamond]

Check out the canon loyalty project (google it). I went that route and saved a lot of money. The camera works great and looks brand new.

[cat in january]

Check the sony a57 out. 42nd street photo has a good deal. Shoots video at 60fps. Just another photo jong-no expert advise here, just internet reading.

Agree with comment on holding the cameras in your hand. There is a Best Buy near me that has not bad prices and you can play with them all you like. Found reading reviews helped to know what I was looking at with the ergonomics of the specific camera.

[systemoverblow'd]

I think people are thinking about this too much (as I used to). Hell, I downgraded to a 7 year old FF camera from my 7D. No video, only 12.8 MP, crap high ISO handling, shit menus, autofocus worth a fuck and couldn't be happier. Best move I made in my photography hobby yet. I'm getting better images than I ever did from my 7D thanks to spending more money on lenses.

But I've also come to realize I don't need the latest and greatest. Shit, I'm on an almost 5 year old laptop right now and plan on putting an SSD in to snap it up instead of throwing down a couple grand.

[outabounds]

I don't know much about video, but I know that one positive thing about Nikons is that you get high quality older mf lenses for hundreds of dollars, as compared to the thousands you'd spend on new high quality glass.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vide...ikon+mf+lenses

I guess you can use an adaptor to mount these lenses on Canon bodies, but that may not work so well with metering?