Coyote Problem

[BigDaddy]

This one was in suburban Boston the other day just strolling through the feeding pens/yards

[KQ]

Your neighbor sounds like a dipshit.

Buh? Why is he a dipshit? He was riding his horse with his dogs tagging along when a coyote came up and grabbed one of the dogs.

[summit]

Well, I'm neither. I'm arguing that killing the coyote that comes onto your "zone" does not get rid of coyotes. It gets rid of that specific coyote. The research I've read, (some of which is in this very thread), says you are creating more coyotes, through pack dynamic disruption, and other things, (all readily available information). That's the long term issue I'm arguing. There's probably a more sustainable, easier way, to keep coyotes from killing your pets.

I'm on your side. I'm telling you that I believe killing those coyotes that come across your zone is probably not the best way to stop coyotes, (in general), from "bothering" you. I'm saying if you did something else, you'd probably have less coyote issues.

I see you point.

My counter is that:

Population increase and dispersion is mostly due to mass killing coyotes (bounty and directly sponsored mass hunts, helicopter hunts, and mass poisoning). This should end.
Killing a few individuals in residential/livestock zones probably doesn't noticeably affect population but probably deters the respective pack from those zones.

[KQ]

Q: if killing a coyote for just doing what it does is wrong do you also then allow rats and mice to just do what comes naturally and, as Mazderati put it " trespassed on an arbitrarily drawn boundary" into your pantry? I mean there just trying to live their little rodent lives and all...........

[TAFKALVS]

Talked to my neighbor this morning. He was out riding in the wheat field between our places with his dogs and a coyote came up and nabbed the smallest one. Dog got away but was pretty much eviscerated so he had to put him down.

I know a couple people who have had that happen. Normally seems to be bird dogs that are happy go lucky and don't have mean bone in their body. Like mine.

[Mazderati]

Coyotes aren't dwindling...

And their territory now expands into what was once - trigger warning - wolf territory.

[summit]

And their territory now expands into what was once - trigger warning - wolf territory.

Well, DUH!

Now why don't you talk about your views on fishing and also answer KQ point about rats.

Rats are smart and fuzzy, just like coyotes, after all!

[PNWbrit]

I know a couple people who have had that happen. Normally seems to be bird dogs that are happy go lucky and don't have mean bone in their body. Like mine.

My previous Golden kicked a coyotes ass once.. I'd never seen him get mad and never did again.

My current one wouldn't stand a chance, even back in his prime years.... other than perhaps by running away... he's a coward... but he's fast.

On a similar note neighbors in GW had their Pyrenean Mountain Dog killed by a cougar on Friday..

[XXX-er]

In a month the town will be full of mostly american fisherman cuz the C & R steelhead industry is big money around here for guides resturants and lodgings I often wonder how many times these fish have been caught & released

most of the fisherman handle the fish very gently, don't pick the fish up very far out of the water, maybe they crouch with it for a picture, release and have a slug of scotch

we had a Kiwi kayak here for a couple of years and he said downunder it was common practise to handle the fish they might release using a dish towel

[Mazderati]

Well, DUH!

Your argument is to attempt elimination of a predatory nuisance. That was and is the same argument for wolves, mountain lions, panthers, and jaguars. The results have been and continue to be a decimated population, extirpation, and some other nuisance that fills the void.

Rats are smart and fuzzy, just like coyotes, after all!

Never had a rat or mouse problem so am not qualified to have an opinion on the topic.

[TAFKALVS]

And their territory now expands into what was once - trigger warning - wolf territory.

If wolves were common like coyotes the same DMZ would apply.

I had a black bear come through the field one time, that was pretty cool.

[Dantheman]

This one was in suburban Boston the other day just strolling through the feeding pens/yards

Coyotes are far more common in urban environments than most people realize. Check out this sighting map from Portland http://blog.nature.org/science/2016/...tizen-science/

More info
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/coywo...-coywolf/8605/
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/meet-...-habitat/8640/
http://www.urbancoyoteproject.com/bl...-urban-coyotes

[riser4]

So far the cases for killing coyotes are:

1. Coyotes trespassed on an arbitrarily drawn boundary.
2. Coyotes are plentiful.
3. Coyotes lack human awareness and reasoning.
4. Coyotes are fish.

5. mazz is acting like a douche

[Mazderati]

Excellent posts in this thread, riser. Really. Fantastic contribution.

[plugboots]

KQ your neighbor is a dipshit for knowing there are coyotes around and having a dog that is coyote candy out with him, unprotected. He must have really loved that dog.

I've changed my mind, he's a grade A #1 asshole.

[summit]

Your argument is to attempt elimination of a predatory nuisance.... The results have been and continue to be a decimated population, extirpation

Where have I argued for that? Also that is not happening...

mountain lions, panthers

You do realize those are the same thing, right?

Also that there is an overpopulation of those animals...

Never had a rat or mouse problem so am not qualified to have an opinion on the topic.

Have you had a coyote problem?
Or should we also assume that you have never been fishing?

You have no counter argument because your reasoning is inconsistent. You are engaged in special pleading for Fido-esque wild predators.

[TAFKALVS]

5. mazz is acting like a douche

Are we sure he isn't a pio alias?

[KQ]

KQ your neighbor is a dipshit for knowing there are coyotes around and having a dog that is coyote candy out with him, unprotected. He must have really loved that dog.

I've changed my mind, he's a grade A #1 asshole.

Huh.

[Mazderati]

Where have I argued for that? Also that is not happening...


You do realize those are the same thing, right?

Also that there is an overpopulation of those animals...


Have you had a coyote problem?
Or should we also assume that you have never been fishing?

You have no counter argument because your reasoning is inconsistent. You are engaged in special pleading for Fido-esque wild predators.

Assume whatever you want. You've done it the entire discussion.

[riser4]

Excellent posts in this thread, riser. Really. Fantastic contribution.

I have never, until now, considered killing coyotes purely for the sake of killing them. So you should congratulate yourself.

[summit]

Assume whatever you want.

Assumptions are fun.

What matters is this:

You have yet to defend your position or answer any questions related to them. You clearly are unable or unwilling to engage in sensible debate.

[BigDaddy]

Coyotes are far more common in urban environments than most people realize. Check out this sighting map from Portland http://blog.nature.org/science/2016/...tizen-science/

More info
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/coywo...-coywolf/8605/
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/meet-...-habitat/8640/
http://www.urbancoyoteproject.com/bl...-urban-coyotes

Well that is Portland, so results are a little skewed. Isn't it common for hipsters to have coyotes for pets?...

I see them all the time in places as sophisticated as Iceman's home town, mid day, sauntering across the carefully manicured lawn like they own the place. We have a pack or two in my town as well, and so I always keep an eye out. They don't seem as big in the burbs, tho... is that true? I've only heard of one dog getting nabbed and it was a toy poodle.

But they are all over the place in Vermont. I hear them yipping at all hours and my dog has a bird... makes for some fun, restless evenings, like this past weekend, lol.


And FTR, Maz is the farthest person from a douche IRL. (At least that's what he asked me to say.)

[Mazderati]

Hah. Don't ruin my rep!

[Bunion 2020]

Interesting that C&R fishing was brought up.

Studies show 3-10% of catch-and-release fish die. This probably means a couple 100,000 of dead fish per year in the US.

Summit, the studies I have read show a much greater mortality rate than what you posted.

I have fly fished for a long time and anymore I crimp my barbs so aggressively that if I give the fish a good bit of slack they self release.

To me the moment that counts is the strike and the set, once they are hooked they are pretty much caught, at least in my mind, so why not let them off ASAP, i know what a trout looks like, don't need anymore stinkin pictures. As for eating them, if a trout is from a high mountain lake it has decent flavor. The river fish around here have all the flavor of a chunk of cardboard.

If a fish cannot spit the fly after a bunch of attempts at slacking the line I will get it in close and cut the line.

I shoot gophers as soon as the enter into my yard. Does that make me an asshole? Don't really care.

[TAFKALVS]

I shoot gophers as soon as the enter into my yard. Does that make me an asshole? Don't really care.

Makes you a Montana resident. Pretty sure that's the state sport.