Coyote Problem

[skifishbum]

He can have an opinion, and I can give it little weight.

I don't ascribe any special value to something being "natural" over "unnatural" when the latter means a uniquely human creation or methodology. I don't view animals as sacred beings, but I abhor needless killing and suffering. I view humans as part of nature as opposed to a blight, intruder, and destroyer. Humans can be those things, but being master of ones environment, the apex predator of the planet, and controlling one's environment doesn't mean one should act as though a rural house is a tent in the middle of a Designated Wilderness Area, but with plumbing and electricity.

Nature is uncaring, and animals are self-interested self-replicating biological machines, even the cute fuzzy wuzzies that bear a physical resemblance to beloved Fido. Animals won't hesitate to kill the fuck out of another species when it moves into a new territory to establish dominance, to eliminate competition, or just because. Animals do carry out what humans recognize as warfare, infanticide, cannibalism, and killing for entertainment and pleasure. Animals do not understand mercy and coexistance for ideological reasons. That is a human capability.

When I ask about where people live, it is because it takes a city dweller much more effort to understand the above aspects when many have a primary conception of nature as a warped projection of idyllic human harmony and peaceful coexistence formed by some combination of short trips to the countryside and feel-good preservationist ideology.

How many people who are crying for coyotes approve of catch and release fishing? Apply the same ideals and fishing is just recreational torture/murder vastly more cruel, and totally unjustified compared to shooting a coyote near a human dwelling or in a ranch pasture. The only reason people are throwing a shit fit over coyotes is for emotional reasons: the animal is cute and fuzzy and looks like Fido.

real men know the difference tween killin yotes and exercisin fish
nice pathetic pita stretch though

[summit]

how do you know they don't go off and eventually die from having a sharp piece of metal pierce their flesh not to mention being pulled out of the water, gasping for air and the stress of it all? Just asking.

Studies show 3-10% of catch-and-release fish die. This probably means a couple 100,000 of dead fish per year in the US.

100% had their flesh pierced by metal for nothing more than the fulfillment of human recreational desires.

Look, I'm not strictly opposed to C&R. It is the very definition of conservationism.

Is catch and release hunting OK? Is it OK to do catch and release hunting? Recreational shooting of elk with rubber bullets that kill rarely, maim sometimes, and hurt always?

My real point is to point out the hypocrisy of supporting recreational C&R fishing, which almost everyone does, while opposing landowners killing coyotes because they are cute.

I C&R fish rarely, but I'd rather keep, kill, and eat them. Nom nom nom wild animal flesh is yummy.

[skifishbum]

keep reelin & strechin
your lines not tight yet
bro

[sb]

Neighbor lost three cats to yotes just the other night.

[liv2ski]

I C&R fish rarely, but I'd rather keep, kill, and eat them. Nom nom nom wild animal flesh is yummy.

As I said earlier in the thread, if you eat what you kill, I can understand your hungry and doing what a natural predator does. Just don't kill stuff for the fuck of it is where I am at. And I don't C & R. If I catch a Yellow or Blue fin tuna, I am eating it.

[plugboots]

That mortality rate is why certain streams are closed to fishing, and even C&R is not allowed. It's not an emotional thing it's a biological thing. It's similar to the point that studies have shown that killing coyotes works in the very short term, but not in the long term, and in fact makes more coyotes.

Edit to add that it would make more sense to shoot rubber bullets at the coyotes in your area to teach them to avoid your space.

[Mazderati]

What a reasonable proposition.

[BigDaddy]

Neighbor lost three cats to yotes just the other night.

And.... how is this a problem?


Outdoor pets in coyote country is pretty foolish. Don't get me wrong, I love cats and that's sad, but it's also dumb.

[plugboots]

My neighbors with the Anatolian Shepherd to protect their sheep don't have a coyote problem.

[summit]

Edit to add that it would make more sense to shoot rubber bullets at the coyotes in your area to teach them to avoid your space.

Rubber bullets are most likely to grievously maim or mortally wound a coyote sized animal (~30lbs). We are talking about something that can maim or kill a 200lbs human.

It would be like hunting deer with a .22. Inhumane.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Is catch and release hunting OK? Is it OK to do catch and release hunting? Recreational shooting of elk with rubber bullets that kill rarely, maim sometimes, and hurt always?

What about hunting deer and elk with paintballs? I would have had a nice trophy a few weeks back
In my backyard. Yesterday we saw the biggest bull elk I've ever seen out in the Colockum WA. Need a paint gun.

Oh I imagine Woodrow on his porch with a suppressed AR in his bathrobe with a cup of coffee shooting those coyotes. Can't wake the woman. Amirite?

[plugboots]

Rubber bullets are most likely to grievously maim or mortally wound a coyote sized animal (~30lbs).

Then something else. A fence like iceman suggested?

[MiddleOfNight]

My neighbors with the Anatolian Shepherd to protect their sheep don't have a coyote problem.

My neighbors do this too. With their herds 24/7. Predators are thick here, but so long as they steer clear of the herds .. no problems with the Tolys.

A reasonable solution, it seems.

[sb]

And.... how is this a problem?


Outdoor pets in coyote country is pretty foolish. Don't get me wrong, I love cats and that's sad, but it's also dumb.

These folks live in town and the cats were in /out pets.

[Tippster]

how do you know they don't go off and eventually die from having a sharp piece of metal pierce their flesh not to mention being pulled out of the water, gasping for air and the stress of it all? Just asking.

OK, if they swallow the hook or (worse) are body/gut-hooked you have a point. Otherwise a pinched barb hook through the lip is not going to harm them. Hook, retrieve, net, release. They are out of the water MAYBE 30 seconds.

Again, this is all predicated on the fisherman knowing what they're about. My friend has a trout stream 100ft behind his house. We fish there all the time. If the activity was so stressful to the fish then they would start dwindling, and they by no means are.

[summit]

OK, if they swallow the hook or (worse) are body/gut-hooked you have a point. Otherwise a pinched barb hook through the lip is not going to harm them.

Again, this is all predicated on the fisherman knowing what they're about. My friend has a trout stream 100ft behind his house. We fish there all the time. If the activity was so stressful to the fish then they would start dwindling, and they by no means are.

Coyotes aren't dwindling...

[Tippster]

Coyotes aren't dwindling...

I never claimed they were. I wasn't the one who brought up C&R fishing as a comp, you were.

[summit]

Clearly the fish population can sustain the losses. That is your argument in favor of C&R. It is a conservationist argument.

I don't know what you think about shooting some coyotes for pest control, so I'm not necessarily calling you out.

I'm calling out people who think it's wrong to kill a coyote in a pasture or around residences for pest control but are OK with C&R which does kill and injure fish.

I'm calling out the people who spout the preservationist Deep Ecology Ethic for doggie like animals but are conservationists when it comes to animals that aren't fuzzy and cute.

[TAFKALVS]

What about hunting deer and elk with paintballs? I would have had a nice trophy a few weeks back.
Oh I imagine Woodrow on his porch with a suppressed AR in his bathrobe with a cup of coffee shooting those coyotes. Can't wake the woman. Amirite?

AK47 actually and my can is stuck in ATF lala land while waiting for the paperwork to clear. But coffee and bathrobe are correct.

She's actually the one who makes me shoot them. She woke me up at 3 am the other night "coyotes are barking, wake up!!!! Go shoot them!!!" I ignored her and went back to sleep. I would probably leave them alone if it wasn't for her.

Not one to let a tragedy go to waste, I have been using the night time howling coyotes as a talking point to lobby for night vision goggles and rifle scope. Or maybe a thermal. Yeah honey, if only I had a $5000 thermal rifle scope, then I'd be able to keep your dog safe from the vicious packs of coyotes.

Here's a visual representation of coyote vs. human land. I should add, human land is only about 2 acres. This is what the coyotes and I have worked out. It seems to have worked pretty well for everyone. I see them when I'm out hiking the land above my house. I enjoy watching them hunt and play in coyote land.

[sb]

I like your reasoning for the NVD.

spin on oil filters.

[TAFKALVS]

I like your reasoning for the NVD.

Anything for more cool gear.

[plugboots]

I'm calling out people who think it's wrong to kill a coyote in a pasture or around residences for pest control but are OK with C&R which does kill and injure fish.

I'm calling out the people who spout the preservationist Deep Ecology Ethic for doggie like animals but are conservationists when it comes to animals that aren't fuzzy and cute.

Well, I'm neither. I'm arguing that killing the coyote that comes onto your "zone" does not get rid of coyotes. It gets rid of that specific coyote. The research I've read, (some of which is in this very thread), says you are creating more coyotes, through pack dynamic disruption, and other things, (all readily available information). That's the long term issue I'm arguing. There's probably a more sustainable, easier way, to keep coyotes from killing your pets.

I'm on your side. I'm telling you that I believe killing those coyotes that come across your zone is probably not the best way to stop coyotes, (in general), from "bothering" you. I'm saying if you did something else, you'd probably have less coyote issues.

[KQ]

Neighbor lost three cats to yotes just the other night.

Talked to my neighbor this morning. He was out riding in the wheat field between our places with his dogs and a coyote came up and nabbed the smallest one. Dog got away but was pretty much eviscerated so he had to put him down.

[plugboots]

Your neighbor sounds like a dipshit.

[Mazderati]

So far the cases for killing coyotes are:

1. Coyotes trespassed on an arbitrarily drawn boundary.
2. Coyotes are plentiful.
3. Coyotes lack human awareness and reasoning.
4. Coyotes are fish.