Tahoe Weather, Conditions, Stoke, and What's Up Thread...

[lepistoir]

Alpine slide, really hope it's not one of my friends.

I hear you. It would be harder to take if it was a friend. Hopefully, this still matters to you if it's a stranger, especially since up here all the patrollers are your friend and would never look at you sprawled on the slope after a crash and say "hope he's not my friend."

Best wishes and hoping for the best for all involved.

[Jim S]

Don't be too eager, Jim.
Tomorrow is when the slack/bc starts crackin cause people think it's settled.
I'd bet it's sketch as hell.



K factor created a settled consistency that didn't occur around north shore?

Thanks. I concur.

[SchralphMacchio]

My condolences to all of those affected ... tough cycle for the north shore. I think back to March 2009, rest in peace Andrew Entin.

K factor created a settled consistency that didn't occur around north shore?

Observation: Driving through Hope Valley this morning, I saw a few naturals - shoulder of Stevens, Red Lake Peak at the highway slide path, elsewhere - and controlled releases along the Carson Spur and Kirkwood controlled terrain that appeared to be isolated to the surface windslab of new snow without apparent step-down to the deeper crust/facet complex. Cirque slide was pretty monstrous so I'm not sure if that was all windslab or not.

Disclaimer: I haven't personally dug an ECT all season or gotten SAC's take on this ...

Opinion: ... but it seems like the rain line and crust / new snow interface has been behaving differently at the Carson Range than the North shore. I'm not saying it's "safe" or "safer" but noting that it is appearing to behave differently.

Inbounds at KW today, I dug a few handpits and found a frightening 1-finger windslab from 8 to 14" on top of fist-hardness blower snow, on top of all of the old stuff. The controlled releases got the windslab to go along the entire cirque, half of Thunder Saddle, much of the Wagon Wheel ridgeline, and parts of Palisades - with no step-down to crusts that have apparently been happening in the North shore. Dhelihiker may also be talking about how the windslab snow changed consistence and density throughout the day, skiing like slow grabby peanut butter in the morning and more like smooth faster ice cream in the afternoon.

Right now I'm feeling blessed to have had a nice day of turns in light of everything ... and hoping that the subject who got heli'ed out of Kirkwood today has stabilized. I don't know anything about what happened, other than seeing fire engines, patrol toboggan, and heli down by the Tower lot.

Stay safe and hug your kids tight tonight folks. Merry Christmas.

[SchralphMacchio]

Good time to dig and learn.

Attachment 128703

I agree, maybe something I'll do tomorrow.

For gimpy, since I talked to you about this,

http://www.fsavalanche.org/Default.a...ParentLinkId=3

I like that it's easier to interpret, but of course it's a bigger pit and takes longer to set up.

[Dhelihiker]

By consolidation, I am refering to the surface snow that I was skiing in. Not by any means comenting on avalanche conditions. Yesterday was kinda blower, today not so much.

[P-ville Madman]

Killer fuckin' day at the wood. Threw my old ass off of everything I could find and had a blast! Cirque must have went huge. Debris fields in eagle bowl and the saddle were massive! This world is a trip how so many had so much fun and a few had their lives changed. +++ vibes.

[bodywhomper]

bummer about the news today and condolences to all involved. that donner ski ranch one is very disturbing on multiple levels. i feel confident saying that if i were skiing by myself or w/ friends at donner ski ranch this morning and had the timing, i'd (we'd) gun-it for first tracks down that pitch.

~~~~

Wow! just saw this posted on the SAC facebook page

^^ here's the obs link for the bc drifter bowl slide: http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/node/3110

imo, this is exactly what sac was expecting for sunday and had forecasted. i commend them for being on it.

[SchralphMacchio]

i feel confident saying that if i were skiing by myself or w/ friends at donner ski ranch this morning and had the timing, i'd (we'd) gun-it for first tracks down that pitch.

Parkmeister and I had 5th or 6th chair at Kirkwood this morning ... I spent the drive through Hope Valley and then time in the parking lot looking at what was fracturing where, how big, how far, etc. Debris fields down every major ridgeline slide path at Kirkwood. I made sure my transceiver was working in the lineup, and had my full kit inbounds.

When we got off that early chair on top? Pointed it straight down and slashed a rollover and then gunned it. Terrain management was the last thing on my mind. Resort mentality.

Something to think about.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...Avy-at-Crystal

[snapt]

I hear you. It would be harder to take if it was a friend. Hopefully, this still matters to you if it's a stranger, especially since up here all the patrollers are your friend and would never look at you sprawled on the slope after a crash and say "hope he's not my friend."

Best wishes and hoping for the best for all involved.

Of course, all members of the same tribe.

[MrSmith]

Spent the day at Alpine, had a very nice day, and didn't learn the extent of all the badness until the ride home. So much happened today, so much I could say, but I think I'm still processing. Vibes to all.

One thing I did observe -- from the chairs it was readily apparent that the avys at Alpine were stepping down, some multiple times (within storm snow then finally down to facet layers?). It's ugly out there.

And pretty sure I saw another near miss associated with control work this morning. It's obviously time for everyone to take a step back and really think about what we're doing out there.

[CaliKid]

No patrollers has set foot past Estelle unless they had invisible tracks). Mind boggling. Alpine is trying real hard to kill someone.

Saw 3 patrollers checking the snowpack out by Bernie's this morning

[mmmm...pow!]

While there might be more tactful ways to say it, BG is spot on. Alpine patrol does a kick ass job of getting terrain open, but allowing people to ski under, and across, terrain closed because it is deemed too dangerous makes no sense, in addition to kinda ruining it for people that wanna ski fall line from the ridge. I'd love to see a rope line between wolverine and Beaver, and maybe some other measures to keep people from traversing in other areas.
The ski areas are obviously sketchy right now, think I'm skiing backcountry tomorrow.

[powdork]

i gotta say i was very surprised to see that the sac had dropped the rating to considerable today, not that it matters since those advisories are specifically not intended to apply to resorts. i still have been wondering since yesterdays slide at squaw if the control work done after the rains has somehow left the snowpack inbounds a bit more sketchy than the bc pack. while todays events could reinforce that suspicion i still i don't believe that. just wondering.

[MrSmith]

i still i don't believe that

Me either. Unless you can come up with a plausible mechanism, which is something I can't do.

[powdork]

Me either. Unless you can come up with a plausible mechanism, which is something I can't do.

only thing i could think of is that they blasted off a layer at some point over the rain crust that still existed in the bc. i don't think that's the case. it's just crazy that there have been so many large post control releases in such a small area geographically. but when i think about it the bad one at alpine today was during control, and does donner do control work on the area that slid?

[jfost]

Rose was great today - Chutes opened just a bit after Noon. I had a weird feeling on Yellow Jacket right after the rope drop as the snow was moving what I felt was a bit more than usual around me. I pulled up after a couple turns and was still moving sideways down the hill in sluff. I headed out of the sluff onto the shoulder and it stopped moving just about as soon as I got out of it.

I think it was just the last couple days' snow on top of the windboard from the weekend, but it was a little more motion than I would have liked. Talked to patrol and they said they had some bomb reactivity, but nothing stepping past the new snow (chutes had been closed for 2 days prior)... I know it didn't get near as wet at Rose as on the crest so maybe that rain crust isn't so bad as it has been looking at Alpine/Squaw & the like?!?

[Jim S]

i gotta say i was very surprised to see that the sac had dropped the rating to considerable today, not that it matters since those advisories are specifically not intended to apply to resorts. i still have been wondering since yesterdays slide at squaw if the control work done after the rains has somehow left the snowpack inbounds a bit more sketchy than the bc pack. while todays events could reinforce that suspicion i still i don't believe that. just wondering.

Ditto: 3 for the Rose area. They are far more euryudite than I. Nevertheless, was expecting to see a higher numerical value.

[cat in january]

Vibes to friends and families of those involved. Hope the troller pulls through.

[old goat]

I imagine AM's philosophy is that if Beaver and Estelle that after Beaver Estelle are bombed they are safe to ski from the Lower Beaver entrance as long as no one is skiing on the steep stuff above, but that the top is still too risky to ski. Whether that's true or not I don't know--it will probably take an accident or near miss to prove that it's not. I wouldn't mind seeing Lower Beaver entrance permanently closed, for the sake of top to bottom pow. Haven't been over there yet this year but in years past there has been a rope down the Wolverine-Beaver ridge as far as the Sisters. Maybe AM could do a survey and see how people feel about closing Lower Beaver and allowing skiing only from the top. My guess is the majority of skiers would prefer to leave it open. Probably not a good time to bring it up with AM.

With patrol deaths at Squaw and AM I wonder how long it will be before OSHA or somebody mandates airbags and avalungs for snow safety work.. When you think about how risky ski cutting is, and the fact that probably every experienced patroller has been caught at one time or another . . .

[snapt]

Pretty sure squaw bought all their trollers WARY airbags last season.

[kidwoo]

i gotta say i was very surprised to see that the sac had dropped the rating to considerable today, not that it matters since those advisories are specifically not intended to apply to resorts. i still have been wondering since yesterdays slide at squaw if the control work done after the rains has somehow left the snowpack inbounds a bit more sketchy than the bc pack. while todays events could reinforce that suspicion i still i don't believe that. just wondering.

That's exactly what has happened in a few zones. Before this last cycle lots of things including that area above the fingers had slid off the rain layer. The area the patroller was involved in yesterday at alpine had not yet been opened for the year so it was very much a 'natural' condition. There was a pretty big section of beaver bowl at alpine that slid last week and you could literally see runnels on the bed surface. You guys were getting more snow than us down there but dust on crust was a regular phenomenon with all that light poofy stuff that was falling previously. Before that, the entirety of squaw and alpine were glazed over boiler plate.

Those layers are there, absolutely at the ski areas up here. Now they're just loaded up.

That's what I was saying two days ago when I kept mentioning the snowpack after the fingers slide at squaw. Everybody appreciates patrol when they open things and bitch about it when they don't. It's a weird dynamic but this has happened in the past and it's happening right now. "Normal operating conditions" don't apply right now. There's a beast sitting a few feet down from everything, everywhere up here. That reward for getting steep areas open has a little more consequence right now than it normally does in this area. I singled out squaw because they've had more of this kind of thing happen in the last few years but it's a really good time for everyone who runs a ski area to really think about what they're opening. Sadly the events of yesterday had to happen to drive it home but there's no doubt in my mind they are very much doing that right now. Contrary to what 4matic may tell himself, I don't 'troll'. Mountains are going to do what they do, it's the personal response to them that I was addressing. I meant everything I said, and the snowpack at ski areas is obviously an issue.

[Ottime]

^^^ can you stop being so reasonable an rational. That is not what is expected around here.

nice one 6er. i always refer to oops ep as the dan cliffs because of the broken 'danger cliffs' sign

Look closer. It is Dang. Sign broken after the g.

Reading books on a cozy couch is not as much fun as skiing. Now I know for sure.

Edit: just caught up on the whole past few days. Vibes to all effected. Rough times for sure. Pleas be smart and diligent out there and leave the resort mentality at home. More loading to start soon. Be careful and thanks for all the obs for us couch surfers who will return shortly.

[harpo-the-skier]

SchralphMacchio and I will be getting together at Luther Pass to dig pits and do beacon searches, including multiples, this afternoon at about 1:30 or earlier, back at the cars by 3:45. Anyone who wants is welcome to join us. Please PM for details. We will be going partway up Waterhouse or Powderhouse, not very far, you will need skis or snowshoes.

[bodywhomper]

Those layers are there, absolutely at the ski areas up here. Now they're just loaded up.....

There's a beast sitting a few feet down from everything, everywhere up here.

I think it's now a little more variable than that, both in and outside the resorts.

[kidwoo]

I think it's now a little more variable than that, both in and outside the resorts.

For sure. Especially above 9k. Off the relay peak area off mt rose is about the only place I saw that cold crusty faceted stuff end. You could literally see the difference between the bottom of a slope and the top of it. So yeah, that says something about mt rose ski area too. But you remember how completely glazed both squaw and alpine were a little while ago? The vast majority of the elevations and aspects everyone skis at are what I'm talking about. Do you check the videos on the S.A.C. site? Those guys cover some ground and are pointing out that stuff in places I never would have expected.