I Gore-Tex worth it?

[mmmm...pow!]

Strange, I've used many types of outerwear over the years in all conditions and I still don't really know. Specifically, are Gore-Tex pants worth the extra money for someone who lives in the Sierra (warm, sometimes wet) and does a lot of hiking/skinning? Would something with a waterproof/breathability rating of 20,000/20,000 be comparable (I'm slightly more concerned with the breathability), or is the added cost of Gore-Tex worth it? Searched and surprised I did not see any info on this.

[gregL]

First of all, there are GORE-TEX®; garments at many different price points - 2L Performance is not as expensive as 3L Pro, for instance. With Gore, you don't just get the fabric; they don't actually make the face fabric, just manufacture and apply the membrane and or backing layer - you get their "supervision" over the manufacturer, pre- and during run testing for waterproof/breathability/durability, Gore seam tape with product-specific machines, etc. etc. So yeah, maybe it's worth a little more money. Sorry for the formality, just returned from the W. L. Gore factory tour and they are very particular about how the brand name appears in print.

The real question is why you think you need a hardshell pant to hike/skin in. I live in the PNW where it's typically no less warm and wet and do virtually all my touring in Schoeller softshell pants of some sort (GORE-TEX® or eVent jacket, though).

[XXX-er]

I use gortex in dry suits for paddling, in rain shells, in pants & jackets for liftskiing where I have found gortex to work well and be woth it , the only place I don't use gortex is for ski touring because it doesnt breath enough so for touring I use soft shell

[mtngirl79]

goretex only if you are going to get really wet, like rain, or snow at or just above freezing, otherwise soft shell.

[Micol]

Many fabrics available from many manufacturers out there. Some Goretex patents are in the free domain due to age. Sure they are innovating, but so are others. Goretex is like xerox. It has become the nomenclature for anything with a PTFE breathable membrane. Don't paint yourself in a corner.

[skimaxpower]

I've been treated very well by GORE's warranty program before. They stand by their product.

If you're a weekend warrior in a mild climate, it's probably not necessary. But, if you live in a wet, windy area or you go on extended adventures where product failure is not an option, I think GORE labeled products are the best on the market.

Because skiing in the PNW means skiing in rain (on occasion) and wind (frequently), I will only ski in GORE labeled ski pants. YMMV.

[mmmm...pow!]

The real question is why you think you need a hardshell pant to hike/skin in. I live in the PNW where it's typically no less warm and wet and do virtually all my touring in Schoeller softshell pants of some sort (GORE-TEX® or eVent jacket, though).

If I had the money, I would buy different pants for touring. I get in about 100 days a season, 50/50 resort and backcountry, looking for one pair of pants for everything. I realize there's probably no perfect pant for that, though. Don't know if I trust a softshell for big storm days at temps near freezing, or am I wrong about that?

[auvgeek]

Blister has a fantastic article about outerwear: http://blistergearreview.com/articles/outerwear-101

Long, but worth reading for sure. Answers some questions about fabrics I've always been fuzzy about. Basically, what I gained from the article is it really comes down to the DWR, not waterproofing rating.

[gregL]

Basically, what I gained from the article is it really comes down to the DWR, not waterproofing rating.

Not exactly. Keeping the DWR current and activating it with heat is a big factor in keeping your face fabric from becoming saturated, but the job of keeping the water out is really done by the membrane. There are a number of good membranes that will keep you fairly dry, but the trick is keeping ePTFE free of contaminants (usually body oils) that render it not-so-waterproof. Manufacturers do this by using some sort of Polyurethane on the inside to protect the PTFE, you can help by washing the garment often and rinsing it well. Not all membranes are equal, especially in the long run, and the numbers are pretty random (as in who knows how these people are testing the fabric) - I used an eVent jacket all last year (as well as GORE-TEX® Pro jacket) and the waterproofing diminished with the eVent jacket with multiple washings - breathability remained outstanding, though.

[GeezerSteve]

Every GoreTex and eVent item I've used was not waterproof after a few uses. Not even close. Every PTFE membrane garment I've owned was rendered into a merely water resistant windbreaker within a few uses, no matter how well I cared for them (e.g., frequent washings with the proper soap, DWR replenishment). eVent seems to work better than Gore, but I nonetheless get soaked in my eVent jackets within a few minutes in a hard rain.

Back in the late 1990s I spoke to a Gore engineer who privately told me that some people's sweat and/or skin oils quickly foul PTFE membrane. I must be one of those people.

I still use PTFE garments, but I don't expect them to be waterproof. PTFE works well for me as a semi-VB, but there are PU fabrics that do that as well. If I want to stay dry in a hard rain, I use a PU coated jacket.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I fucking love Gore Tex softshell for cold (and sometimes clammy) skiing. 3 Layer, fairly lightweight garments that are heavy duty tough. It's basically just a hardshell with some stretch woven in. It is strong, but has a soft touch. Inner felt or whatever lining helps keep you from feeling all clammy and icky when you start to sweat.

I'm thinking of my rpk coat. And even before Goretex softshell became a thing, Arc Teryx was putting that felt backing on some of their heavy duty ski shells.

Is it worth it? Kinda. It depends. There is a good read on Blister about it.
Are there alternatives that are just as good, if not better? Probably. I think Goretex has been good at establishing itself as a household name. A product, a feeling, an idea that people seek out.

Sent from my cell phone. no, a cell phone.

[Hugh Conway]

not really necessary for touring, decent enough for lift served, really nice for tram laps or the like on a stormy powder day where you get covered in snow -> warm environment where it melts -> back to covered in snow -> repeat many times.

[verbier61]

If you sweat like a pig like me, neoshell might be better when touring.

[marshalolson]

GORETEX is a brand that makes PTFE laminates. so do a lot of brands. there really is nothing novel unique or better about GORE vs. OE alternatives IMO.

anyhow, personally run:
stretch softshell: touring / warmer inbounds
3layer hardshell: storm riding / cold inbounds

3layer pants with sick vents (i.e. flylow stash/chemical) = win in all conditions.

just don't get double-layer hardshell. much less breathable = sweaty mess.

[XXX-er]

If I had the money, I would buy different pants for touring. I get in about 100 days a season, 50/50 resort and backcountry, looking for one pair of pants for everything. I realize there's probably no perfect pant for that, though. Don't know if I trust a softshell for big storm days at temps near freezing, or am I wrong about that?

http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx...s/Fury-AR-Pant

Fucking expensive BUT I use/used these for 3 or 4 seasons of lift/BC skiing and IME I can recommend them as a quiver of 1 ski pant

I got a very smoking deal on some 3layer G-tex shells from arcteryx in the last spring close outs and in comparison they are a little warmer on the lift but the Fury pant is/was very workable for all conditions

[Hugh Conway]

there really is nothing novel unique or better about GORE vs. OE alternatives IMO.

The Goretex warranty is unique. Problem with Gore product, return to Gore, get warranty replacement from any product sold made with Gore stuff.

[Alaskan Rover]

Strange, I've used many types of outerwear over the years in all conditions and I still don't really know. Specifically, are Gore-Tex pants worth the extra money for someone who lives in the Sierra (warm, sometimes wet) and does a lot of hiking/skinning? Would something with a waterproof/breathability rating of 20,000/20,000 be comparable (I'm slightly more concerned with the breathability), or is the added cost of Gore-Tex worth it? Searched and surprised I did not see any info on this.

"I" Gore-Tex?? You mean iGore-Tex? So Apple Computers is going into the waterproof/breathable market? Wow. Does that mean all their outerwear is going to be white? I thought that was only for Bogner.

Will this be the first of the wearable computers I've been hearing about?

Do I have to line up around the block to get one? What about charger accesories?

Cool....I'll pony up the 1.75 times the amount it's worth right now, then.

They have to come up with a nifty name like the iGor, then it'll fly off the shelves.

--

[marshalolson]

The Goretex warranty is unique. Problem with Gore product, return to Gore, get warranty replacement from any product sold made with Gore stuff.

NSFW (swear word)

[Ted Striker]

I don't think Gore branded products are necessarily more expensive. I don't think they breathe much either. I have had good luck with them though, i.e. stayed more-or-less waterproof, and no delamination. I can't say that about some of the other brands.

My go-to for pants is gor-tex or a similar known quality like patagonia, for all conditions, and to change my jacket for different conditions/situations.

[steved]

..........Just don't get double-layer hardshell. much less breathable = sweaty mess.

+1................

[gregL]

My experience with a GORE-TEX® Pro jacket (Arc'teryx Alpha LT) over a season of use was very positive. Still didn't get wet in a day of Alpental BC laps in 32 degree driving snow after many sweaty days and a couple of washings (3 glove day).

[whyturn]

For pants i love gore softshell for slight warmth and great waterproof, decent breathable. For jacket nothing beats Event IMO for breathability and temp variation

[BigJim]

Check out the lofoten goretex pro she'll pants by norrona. I think they are available in the US now on backcountry.com. Expensive, but amazing. Toured 50+ days in them in France last winter. Highly breathable, very tough and oh yeah, they look the bomb

[nobueno]

The new Dry Q elite stuff from mountain hardware seems pretty outstanding so far for me. Got a shell jacket and will be looking for some pants when it comes time to replace mine.

[Hugh Conway]

NSFW (swear word)

Yeah, it doesn't have the indy brand cred. Oh well.