skiing on dry land

[nosnowski]

Did you consider Harb Carvers? On the face of it, they would seem to accomplish what you have set out to do. I have a pair and I can attest to the fact that they accurately simulate the movements of skiing. I'm pretty certain they are patented. http://harbskisystems.com/index.php?...chk=1&Itemid=1

Yes, I did. I've known Harb carvers for quite some time. They are just improved in-line skaters with two rows of fixed wheels and no simulation of side cut so you effectively turn them by subtle pivoting movements. They do not give you much fore-aft support and for this reason you can't use them on rougher surface which I can do. I am hoping to have another version with 8" wheels suitable for short grass ready some time in the near future.

[BmillsSkier]

Harbls?

Like Harold Harb?

[geoffda]

Yes, I did. I've known Harb carvers for quite some time. They are just improved in-line skaters with two rows of fixed wheels and no simulation of side cut so you effectively turn them by subtle pivoting movements. They do not give you much fore-aft support and for this reason you can't use them on rougher surface which I can do. I am hoping to have another version with 8" wheels suitable for short grass ready some time in the near future.

Actually, the only way to make them perform well is to tip them aggressively on edge. I believe the sidecut simulation is based on deformation of the wheels, but however it works, it provides a good correlation between tipping angles and turn radius. Harb Carvers don't respond well to pivots (subtle or otherwise). IMO, that is what makes them such a great training device; they are intolerant of incorrect movements and provide unambiguous feedback. The simulation is so accurate that non-skiers have been able to learn how to ski on carvers and then have been able to immediately transfer their skills on snow. That said, you are correct in that they are not designed for rough surfaces and fore-aft tolerances are pretty narrow.

While I think the Harb Carvers provide an excellent simulation of (technical) skiing, they still don't feel as good as real skis on real snow. IMO, skate wheels just don't feel that good on typical asphalt. To me, that is where advancement in ski simulators is most interesting. Is it possible to develop a device that feels as good or better than actual skiing while still requiring the same movements?

[nosnowski]

I believe the sidecut simulation is based on deformation of the wheels, but however it works, it provides a good correlation between tipping angles and turn radius. Harb Carvers don't respond well to pivots (subtle or otherwise).

The HC wheels are standard in-line skate wheels and I have not seen any deformations in them or the way they are mounted. There are board solutions with multiple rows of wheels that simulate a side cut e.g. flowboard or the one disclosed in the US patent 5855385 but it's a completely different ball game.

Check this video of in-line skate slalom run and tell me what you can do on HC which you can't on in-line skates



The main advantage of HC is that they simulate edges but if you have old style skis without a side cut rolling your knees on the edge is not going to induce a meaningful turn. You can turn on HC because they are short and amenable to subtle pivoting movements which you can see in this video of one-footed exercise

.

The slightly more advanced turning technique is demonstrated in this video



It works by advancing one of your feet and positioning them in a divergent way i.e. simulating side cut between two of your in-line devices. To a degree this is also done when you carve but the main reason is to effectively extend the turning radius of your outside ski i.e. it works a bit like the diff in a car which makes adjustment for a different turning radius of inside and outside wheels. However, even in this case if you have aligned wheels there's no other way to make them move along a curve without slight pivoting of your feet.

Try extending the length of HC to the same length as my device and turn on them to see the main difference. This is not to say that HC is not a great training device but I am trying to achieve much more i.e. make it something that can be made a training device but also fun to ride on off road. I have been contacted by a guy who wants to run his ski lift in summer so people can have a more realistic skiing like experience. The reality though is that whatever we do we can only achieve a better or worse approximation of skiing but there's no substitute for the real thing. Obviously you can ski on all sorts of artificial surface but this is a high maintenance proposition.

[mobygrape]

this thread rules.

grass skiing = comedy gold.

[nosnowski]

Some new action. Pro freestyler Mitch Smith trying my wheels in the Falls Creek resort down under. It took him just a few test turns to gain enough confidence to ride down the 1km main resort road

[ak_powder_monkey]

roller skis are fucking scary

[mtl_ripper]

So if I don't yet know how to ski, would this be recommended to sharpen my skillset before next winter? Maybe combined with rollerblading? My headbands need wearing.

sent by electrons

[nosnowski]

roller skis are fucking scary

Not if they are rollercarvers. You put your padding and helmet on just in case but you would be truly surprised how stable they are. With about 3 feet length you have plenty of fore/aft support and they are also equipped with a simple brake. Since their turning radius is about 5 feet you can easily control speed and only need a narrow area like the road shoulder seen at the beginning of the video. Mitch said that it terms of safety it was really like riding a bicycle. I have been doing this for well over a year and never came close to falling and only used my brakes on my second ever run when I got a bit scared of the speed.

[nosnowski]

Certainly, but don't take my word for it. This is what Mitch wrote in his email to me:

"The potential to teach people proper carving technique, which every single skier wants, is
incredible. You have to use the proper technique to rollercarve, but it isn’t difficult to grasp
and apply. Snow tends to bring a lot of variables into the picture when trying to teach
carving technique, as you are constantly sliding in many directions and until you gain
significant momentum it is impossible to carve. With the rollercarvers you can do this at
walking pace. I can confidently say that if a person can grasp the technique on Rollercarvers,
which is honestly very simple, they will make improvements to their skiing
technique at a much faster rate than on snow. It simply allows you to feel and thus
understand the proper technique and as a result your muscle memory and skills will enable
you to apply this on the snow".

The trouble though is that they are not commercially available.

[Son-of-Pbville]

without trying these, watching a few videos, and being completely full of insight (read: shit)....

too me what you need is some flex. to really get good at carving you have to control the skis rebound, which is how one creates the quiet upper body. seriously, some pine laminates in place of alum might be a nice addition. lighter too. Rolling you knees back and forth gets so boring and you are completely dependent on side cut to make the turn. "driving" the ski lets you decide on the turn radius. for you land skis, go check out some flex deck longboards

the lack of "ski" feel is that you have taken a whole ski length of edge and put it in two points. dont see a way around that, but these boards do a cool thing in allowing you to scrub speed

http://freebord.com

[nosnowski]

without trying these, watching a few videos, and being completely full of insight (read: shit)....

too me what you need is some flex. to really get good at carving you have to control the skis rebound, which is how one creates the quiet upper body. seriously, some pine laminates in place of alum might be a nice addition. lighter too.
http://freebord.com

There is a bit of rebound from pneumatic tires and the spring the forces the wheels into the neutral position but I'm thinking about using old skis for the middle section. It's still work in progress (in spare time) but even the way it is at the moment provides pretty good off season preparation for the snow which we hopefully will be getting in less than two months time.

[ShadyNasty]

My wife and I moved halfway round the world for great skiing and 100 days a year of it. Best thing we ever did, it's worked brilliantly.

But good luck with your 6 foot long roller blades.

^^^maybe his wife's not a skier?

Anyways, good for you? Go fuck yourself, or your wife, no one gives a shit bro

[ShadyNasty]

but yeah, looks like a great way to have a season ending injury before the season starts

[nosnowski]

Maybe it looks this way but it's surprisingly stable, definitely more stable than in-line skates. The gear has normal ski bindings and we wear protective gear when we do it. Mitch had his motorbike padding underneath his clothes. BTW, this is like walk in the park compared to Mitch's dirt pipe

[neck beard]

Why the kangaroo avatar? You don't see many Americans posting on foreign forums with Uncle Sam as their avatar. Why are many Australians so overt with their nationalistic icons? Yet so intolerant of Americans when they act the same?

[ShadyNasty]

Why the kangaroo avatar? You don't see many Americans posting on foreign forums with Uncle Sam as their avatar. Why are many Australians so overt with their nationalistic icons? Yet so intolerant of Americans when they act the same?

the answer is because between the two nations we contain 99% of the worlds assholes

[Hugh Conway]

the answer is because between the two nations we contain 99% of the worlds assholes

Are you splitting Canada 50/50 between the US and Oz?

[nosnowski]

I have never thought of my avatar as a nationalistic symbol. The avatar is a cut out from a photo of the kangaroo warning road sign which you come across going to one of our ski resort. Some joker added the skis and it has stayed like that for years.