I have no idea....what car should I buy.

[Bobby Stainless]

There are a couple VW engines to avoid. I know one is the 1.8T.

[gatorboy]

How about Saab 9.3 2.0T SportiCombi (wagon).

There was a great one near Iceman (Pawling) with extra rims, snow tires, roof rack and kayak holder (motivate me to buy one)....but he sold it two days ago.

I can get 2006 or 07 with under 80K miles for around $10,000

Reviews say that the 4 cyl will get 22/30 mpg...but is that too small of an engine with a turbo?

Both wife and kids like the looks...but is upkeep redonkeylous?

[The Tortoise]

I looked at one of these last fall. It was an '07 with 54,000 km, asking $14k.

They're beautiful driving cars with a lot of space in the back. The 2.0T is a gem, lots of low end power, runs very smooth and can get good mileage on the highway. I also think they're one of the best looking wagons ever made.

The interior is so-so for a luxury car.

Definitely try to get a 2007 or later since there was a major refresh and a lot of the common bugs (like the fiber optic audio) were corrected. The 2007+s are supposed to be a lot better than the earlier models.

The biggest issue with them is that they were made by GM at a time when they weren't making their best cars. Mechanically I think they're pretty solid but a 9-3 has the possibility of nickel and diming you to death. Also, parts for these cars are not cheap.

Ultimately what scared me away was talking to a local Saab indie mechanic. He said the cars are generally good and there is decent aftermarket support for parts but there are a number of Saab only parts and if they fail it can be hell getting them as they are often back-ordered. His comment was that unless you can find a loaner at a wrecker your car will be sitting for a long time waiting for parts to arrive. I'm not 100% sure it's true but he stood to make money off of me and turned me away.

Still, after all that there's a part of me that wishes we got it over the Mazda5 (though sliding doors rule with young kids). It was such a nice car to drive and that engine is so sweet.

[MontuckyFried]

With the auction yesterday, you may be able to score a new Saab from your local dealer ultra-cheap.
http://wot.motortrend.com/last-call-...on-222181.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/3570...oline-nevs.htm
"The only eligible bidders will be U.S. Saab dealers, but that means that the last gasoline-powered Saabs will be available on dealer lots for as much as 50 percent below MSRP."
50% off of a brand new car? That's kind of tempting!

[gatorboy]

Thanks for that info, both of you.

I love the look of it from the outside and the plastic on the inside doesn't turn me off. The lack and cost of parts do. I will take one with the right history and cost.

[MontuckyFried]

Thanks for that info, both of you.

I love the look of it from the outside and the plastic on the inside doesn't turn me off. The lack and cost of parts do. I will take one with the right history and cost.

I'd also take the new inventory of deeply discounted new Saabs into account. Seems that should drive prices of used ones down a bit. Really is a shame they met this fate, as I always thought they were great driving, unique cars. Don't know why exactly, but I get a kick out of the center mounted ignition switch.

[XXX-er]

Just a small point - people always extol Japanese manufacturing but the Keiretsu system was bound to fail and the tsunami showed what mess just-in-time can be when something unexpected pops up. Emulating Japan can be good, and also can be really bad.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using TGR Forums

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Where do you think the japanese learned how to kick americas ass ?

The japanese had their asses schooled in the postwar occupation period by an american W.Edwards Deming ^^^ but nobody much listened to him back on this side of the pond, japan kicked our asses and thats why today we all drive cars made by japanese based car companies

[Tuckerman]

Bump what did you end up with a Toyota or Subaru? I have the same needs as you only I have 1 child and two dogs. I'm thinking Toyota or Subaru only because of the years I would be looking at. Anyone know what year Subaru engines are the most bullet proof?

I have excluded bmw and audi because of expensive parts but I could be wrong about that.

[Benny Profane]

Bump what did you end up with a Toyota or Subaru? I have the same needs as you only I have 1 child and two dogs. I'm thinking Toyota or Subaru only because of the years I would be looking at. Anyone know what year Subaru engines are the most bullet proof?

I have excluded bmw and audi because of expensive parts but I could be wrong about that.

You can't go wrong with a Subaru with the 2.5 engine into the auto trans from, oh, 07 to now. This engine has been around for almost twenty years, and is a rock, excluding those difficult years from'99 to'03, when they had head gasket/overheating issues. We're talking Outbacks, Foresters, and Imprezas (before'10 on the Impreza).
Just remember to change the timing belt.


Edit: Seriously consider a Subaru Certified Pre Owned vehicle. I just bought one, and I'm happy.

[MontuckyFried]

Just remember to change the timing belt.

That's for sure. I had an '86 Subaru that ran great. Since I bought it for next to nothing, the timing belt swap was going to cost more than twice what I paid for the car. A few months later the timing belt blew, of course destroying both heads. Lesson learned. Don't be a cheapskate about the timing belts, no matter how cheap you get the car. At least I ended up being able to sell it for a hefty profit, even broken! Freaking Subaru resale. Haha.

[guroo270]

You can't go wrong with a Subaru with the 2.5 engine into the auto trans from, oh, 07 to now. This engine has been around for almost twenty years, and is a rock, excluding those difficult years from'99 to'03, when they had head gasket/overheating issues. We're talking Outbacks, Foresters, and Imprezas (before'10 on the Impreza).

The head gasket issue continued through 04 and 08 as well. The caveat is that if you buy the more awesome turbo version you don't have to worry about it. They use a different head gasket.

[Benny Profane]

I beg to differ about '08. They had that shit fixed earlier.

I just test drove a turbo, and, unless you can find one with a stick, it makes no sense.

[TheMessenger]

Subaru's do fine until 70k, then the small shit starts to break. Then at 100k it's all those fucking sensors. Goddamn sensors cost more to fix than whatever they are trying to sense. Then at about 120k the big shit starts to break. Sure you can get a Subaru to 200k but you are going to plow more money into it than you paid for the car for the first place. Such piece of shit cars.

[Beaver]

Subaru's....Such piece of shit cars.

What he said.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Goddamn sensors cost more to fix than whatever they are trying to sense.

This is my experience, at least with the oxygen sensor.