Tuckerman's crevasse/moat hiker fatality: lessons learned

[wooley12]

liar, i'd never recommend skiing tux in spring. tux is for midweek nov/dec/jan/early feb when no one else is in there and everything is smooth, pretty, and untracked.

spring is for sugarloaf

rog

I was referring to your advice on skinning technique.

[icelanticskier]

I was referring to your advice on skinning technique.

was i drinking again? i don't remember ever giving advice on skinning, and certainly not on technique of skinning. skinning for me is always just a low angle approach affair. in utah i skinned most everything to gain a ridge, but NEVER was into those miserable steep tight switchbacking testosterone chest thumping i'm badass cuz i can skin up anything skintracks. over 30 degrees and i'd just rather boot straight up off to the side, or just keep the track low angle preferably on a treed hillside, nose, or ridge. a booter doesn't fuck a perfectly good hillside that's better suited aesthetically for down tracks. nothing more ugly than seeing nice turn tracks with a fucked up zig zag going up through them.

a long time old/bold guide round these parts is always giving me grief (in fun) about my approach, and me, his. he doesn't ever like to take his skis off and zigs all over hells creation. i prefer to go straight up on foot and take up less space. he preaches efficiency, i preach art. to each our own i guess.

nice to see homemade salsa here. thanx for the input. thanx kt for dumbing down yer words for some of us

happy easter!

rog

[BFD]

These threads would be obsolete if rog had his own forum. He could talk about himself all he wants. Than everyone would know how to survive an avalanche, the proper way to skin. how to tell if the snow is firm, or what resort has the most man made snow left to skin up. Probably countless other things I am missing but am really hoping to learn.

[icelanticskier]

These threads would be obsolete if rog had his own forum. He could talk about himself all he wants. Than everyone would know how to survive an avalanche, the proper way to skin. how to tell if the snow is firm, or what resort has the most man made snow left to skin up. Probably countless other things I am missing but am really hoping to learn.

IGNORE, BFD. got it? good

rog

[fastfred]

to fuck holes who spend more time on the internet than on the mountain

I'm not going to tell you how awesome I am how long I've been skiing how good I am that all my gear is from some garage sale all the crazy shit I may or may not do It doesn't matter shit

I got way in over my head yesterday. It wasn't cool. Conditions sucked ass, snow was a mess, my ass hole puckered up so tight and my heart skipped a couple beats here and there. I stood still as big ass rocks came down at me. watching them come at me getting ready to scramble left and right hoping not too lose my footing and fall off a rock face Everything about yesterday was stupid and now I'm sitting inside my body a hurts all over

FUCKED UP BAD SHIT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME. The only way your going to reduce your chances of bad shit is by sitting inside playing with your computer.

[icelanticskier]

I got way in over my head yesterday. It wasn't cool. Conditions sucked ass, snow was a mess, my ass hole puckered up so tight and my heart skipped a couple beats here and there. I stood still as big ass rocks came down at me. watching them come at me getting ready to scramble left and right hoping not too lose my footing and fall off a rock face Everything about yesterday was stupid and now I'm sitting inside my body a hurts all over

sounds aweful. how did you let that happen? didn't you see what you were getting into before you were in deep? just curious.

FUCKED UP BAD SHIT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME.

yes, but we can greatly reduce the odds with better preparation, forethought, and observation.

rog

[TNKen]

My question is rather practical. How will the retrieve the body? After a while, or after the meltdown occurs, this is not going to be a pretty sight.

Ken

[icelanticskier]

My question is rather practical. How will the retrieve the body? After a while, or after the meltdown occurs, this is not going to be a pretty sight.

Ken

could be july...........................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ULB...eature=channel

careful round the cracks folks!

rog

[neufox47]

My question is rather practical. How will the retrieve the body? After a while, or after the meltdown occurs, this is not going to be a pretty sight.

Ken

In that area, I wonder if the under snow river is large enough to drop it right into the Cutler

[icelanticskier]

with 3' of new in the last 3 weeks through tomorrow with honkin winds, the doods tomb might be all covered up for a bit. avy danger is mod/cons today and could be on the upper end of those by tomorrow. finally some interesting snow to poke around in. may go up tomorrow to check things out. gonna prob be pretty deserted in there. hopefully.

wanna join rob?

rog

[chiller]

a booter doesn't fuck a perfectly good hillside that's better suited aesthetically for down tracks. nothing more ugly than seeing nice turn tracks with a fucked up zig zag going up through them.

god I hate that. people just touring right up the goods.....

[lynchdogger]

On Saturday, I spoke with some in the know in the attempted rescue/recovery and they should certainly be mentioned for their efforts and for the way they handled the whole situation including taking care of the man's son in the aftermath. May the gentleman RIP and may his family find comfort with each other and the fact that the man died doing something he loved to do.

What is to follow is not meant with any disrespect but only to share some knowledge that I have picked up over the years. Here is what I know based on my conversation and experience.

The gentlemen was not wearing crampons nor did he have an ice axe and the conditions certainly warranted both. I was not there nor is that my observation but is the observation of those that were. Had he had them would he been able to self-arrest on such a steep icy slope no will know? (and that is easier said than done - gravity happens fast and you need to be strong and with good self-arrest knowledge and technique and get it done quick). He certainly might have had a better chance with these two essential tools.
Rope and harness? If the party and/or leader thought was required based on skill set/conditions but a rope and harness should not be substituted for ice axe and crampons. And of course a rope and harness are only good with gear or solidy belay on a slope that steep and icy with the knowledge of how to use them. I do not know the deceased nor the climbing party he was with and nor do I know their experience level but the fact they were not prepared for the conditions, unfortunately says a lot and certainly a contributing factor to this fatal accident.

This was not shared with me but it is my educated guess that they like so many others up there in the spring were expecting spring conditions "like it is every year this time of year." I do not know for fact but it is more often the case up there that folks are unprepared and it appears this is the same case here. You can go up there for years and maybe get away with not having an ice axe or crampons but imho they are essential mountain tools and I always bring them and use them when I feel conditions warrant.
I am not better than anyone and in fact there are so many with much more talent but I have learned to be prepared when I go. This is not to say that I too have not made mistakes in the mountains and may again in the future but please go prepared. Take a lesson, read some books and practice skills. I did 25 years ago and have never forgotten and continue to learn. The experience comes from doing, making mistakes and learning from those mistakes as well as from others and their knowledge and mistakes. Say what you will but this accident was that an accident but yes like most it was preventable.

[Jonathan S.]

So he thought (as reported elsewhere) that the conditions were too firm to ski safely, and instead he climbed up those same firm conditions without crampons?

[lynchdogger]

So he thought (as reported elsewhere) that the conditions were too firm to ski safely, and instead he climbed up those same firm conditions without crampons?

Unfortunately yes. I should add that I not sure of the intentions or decision making process but I am certain that he did not have an ice axe or crampons.

[kingdom-tele]

Unfortunately yes. I should add that I not sure of the intentions or decision making process but I am certain that he did not have an ice axe or crampons.

this is a much more concise post for newbie, jong, non boot packing, rookie mountaineers to read than the other full of conjecture and personal opinion

[icelanticskier]

todays report from the oldest organized avalanche forecasting center in the U.S.

pretty straightforward as always: http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/index.php

looks like april will be our snowiest month this season.

be safe

rog

[userA]

is anyone trying to recover the victim?

[wooley12]

According to the news reports, recovery efforts will be resumed in a few days or weeks when it's safe.

Updated - He was wearing crampons

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/04/0...ifying-ordeal/

[lynchdogger]

According to the news reports, recovery efforts will be resumed in a few days or weeks when it's safe.

Updated - He was wearing crampons

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/04/0...ifying-ordeal/

Not going to argue with that. Sorry my bad and apologize for the misinformation. Just re-telling what I heard from a reliable source. Looks like we were both wrong. Never meant to discredit or disrespect. Feel foolish for sticking my neck out but please know it was for the right reason - to try and inform people that those are essential tools in the mountains and there are so many people up there with no clue. I was wrong. Looks terribly wrong. Again my sincere apologies.

[lynchdogger]

Watch the vid. Amazing that there were not two victims. Yikes. Lucky. I would probably have done the same in the moment but clearly not a good idea.

Sad. Seemed like a brilliant man. Impressed by his son's composure and strength.

[wooley12]

Again my apologies.

None required. That info came out yesterday. You stated that you spoke with someone in the know. The son said otherwise. Either scenario, with crampons or without crampons, is understandable to me in that location and at that time. I'll say it again, when you look for adventure sometimes shit happens and nothing we can do will change that. I'm probably a little off center as I was raised by a dad who said over and over "We all gotta go someday." To be honest, the son's demeanor in the interview was odd but that also is somewhat understandable to me. I was there when my dad died and looked his passing as a part of life, as he did.

[kingdom-tele]

"someone in the know"


aren't we all.


Be safe.

[VTColdSmoke]

Wow, very sad after reading that article... vibes

[PNWbrit]

"someone in the know"


aren't we all.

But not as much as Rog.

[VTColdSmoke]

http://blog.nhstateparks.org/?p=2305 - here's a link to some more info from Manager of Mt. Washington State Park.