WTF did I do to my knees?

[jgb@etree]

I was screwing around on a GS course a couple of weeks ago to show a gaper that 192 Bro's can indeed rail like a GS ski. Ripped it damn clean (much to the amazement of said gaper) so a few runs later I hit it again on my way back to the lift. A few turns from the end I didn't start my turn early enough, so I shut it down mid-turn as I would have missed a gate anyhow. As my skis have gotten fatter, I've realized that stopping on wider isn't very smooth on hardpack, and I tend to "hop" a little before coming to a complete stop. So when I stopped, I edged in, kinda hopped once, and stopped dead. And my fucking knees have been killing me ever since. I can walk/ski/etc, but both knees - particularly the one that was downhill when I stopped - are just annoyingly painful. 2 Hydrocodone, a few Dogfishhead 60's and packing a bowl on every lift ride and I can ski just fine if I take it easy, and that's not very much fun. Climbing stairs, however, feels like I'm getting hit in the knee with a hammer.

What did I strain/sprain/stretch/bruise & any suggestions other than RICE?

TIA

[leroy jenkins]

Go to a doctor.

[Sinecure]

Did they swell up? Sounds like you either strained some ligaments or messed up some cartilage. Vitamin I not helping?

[jgb@etree]

Go to a doctor.

Trying to avoid that hassle as my ortho is on vacation. Hoping the dentists would have some insight.

Did they swell up? Sounds like you either strained some ligaments or messed up some cartilage. Vitamin I not helping?

Yeah, a little swelling. More on my left knee (was the downhill side) than right, but nothing too unusual. Popped some Ib's for a couple of days after the initial event but moved into pain managment mode since the swelling didn't seem all that bad.

FWIW, pain is mostly on the outside of my knees and the things that hurt most are:

Climbing stairs (going down hurts a little, but not nearly as much as up)

Locking my legs/knees straight (unweighted - just kinda pushing the soles of my feet out & stretching)

Rotating with my foot planted

And shocker - as it's basically what I was doing when I hurt myself - mimicking the actions of weighting an inside edge.

Didn't hear any pops and I don't have any clicking or anything while moving my knees thru their full range of motion, so I sure hope I didn't screw up any cartilege. Coincidentally (or maybe not so much) the left knee that hurts most is my bum knee - tore the meniscus on that side 15 years ago, and then had it basically reconstructed 10 years ago when they had to pop my kneecap off to rod my tibia.

My ortho is back in the office on Monday - just hoping for an armchair diagnosis to figure out if I really fucked myself up good (don't think so, but it's also been a little over a week with little improvement) and should skip skiing this week or if I can relatively safely continue to self treat & medicate to manage the pain while skiing until I can get to the Dr.

[Shogun]

I'd try not to ski until you see the doc. There's really no way of knowing how serious it is or if you just aggravated them until you talk to the doc/get an MRI, ect... I thought I just sprained my knee, tweaked it, ect in back in May skiing, then I finally saw a doctor in July, got an MRI and found out my ACL was torn in half. That's probably not your case but to be on the safe side just wait for word from the doc. It sounds like you just aggravated your knees and hopefully a little RICE will get you feeling better and back on the slopes!

Good luck!

[jgb@etree]

I'd try not to ski until you see the doc. There's really no way of knowing how serious it is or if you just aggravated them until you talk to the doc/get an MRI, ect... I thought I just sprained my knee, tweaked it, ect in back in May skiing, then I finally saw a doctor in July, got an MRI and found out my ACL was torn in half. That's probably not your case but to be on the safe side just wait for word from the doc. It sounds like you just aggravated your knees and hopefully a little RICE will get you feeling better and back on the slopes!

Good luck!

Thanks - I know the "right" answer is to wait until I see the doc, but the chances of me skipping a weekend on skis when winter just showed up in VT are somewhere between slim & none unless it appears that an entire limb is about to fall off of my body. Or if someone recognized the cause & symptoms and knew that I had <insert bad thing here> and would most likely be causing long term damage by skiing 2-3 days before having <insert awful treatment here>.

Guess I'm really just hoping someone who knows more about knees than I do can help me figure out what I might have done so I can try to manage it and hopefully get things back to normal (while still skiing) before I can get to the doc next week.

Hope that ACL is healed up & feeling strong.

[kevok2]

Hydrocodone and alcohol go great together. Even better when it's the hydrocodone/paracetamol blend.

I too am surprised the dentists can't provide more insight, since teeth are bones too.

[Shogun]

I get not wanting to miss out on any good days... winter has just arrived here in Idaho too and I've been getting some groomed laps/mellow powder turns in with my new ACL.

I guess just stay on that herbal/hydro mix and don't go all out this weekend, good luck and let us know how things go with the doc.

I've smoked herb basically every time I've skied for as long as I can remember and these last two days back skiing I've noticed it's really helped with the knee...

[splat]

jgb - brace up if you ski this weekend. It'll take up some of the slack. Even if it's one of those cheap Futuro braces from Walgreens. Had the same symptoms, but worse, 20 years ago. I could barely do an incline, up or down. My knees just felt like a rickety old machine held together by baling wire and duct tape. But I still skied. And I braced up for ten years until prolotherapy cured that shit after three injections. It was freakin magic. Never braced up again until I blew my knee out almost four years ago.

[bmg97]

Did you try icing them ? 20 on 20 off for an hour or so.

[jgb@etree]

jgb - brace up if you ski this weekend. It'll take up some of the slack. Even if it's one of those cheap Futuro braces from Walgreens. Had the same symptoms, but worse, 20 years ago. I could barely do an incline, up or down. My knees just felt like a rickety old machine held together by baling wire and duct tape. But I still skied. And I braced up for ten years until prolotherapy cured that shit after three injections. It was freakin magic. Never braced up again until I blew my knee out almost four years ago.

Good call. I've got a couple of the cheapo neoprene braces in my bag and will throw 'em on. Seems very similar to your experience although I don't think it's degraded to baling wire & duct tape - I'm feeling like rubber bands and gorilla tape... heh.

You'll have to give me some info on that prolotherapy, although I'm pretty much hoping that I won't need any shots in my knees as I am the worlds biggest sissy when it comes to needles. Fucking HATE them.

Anyhow, pain is down quite a bit - I just don't feel strong & stable. I'm hoping (and pretty sure, but who knows without some pics) that this is just the result of getting old and taking longer to recover from little things. 15-20 years ago it probable either wouldn't have hurt in the first place, or if it did would have felt better the next day.

Heading out the door shortly to pop my Lhasa cherry. Looks like there's about a foot and a half out on the hill and I'm foaming at the mouth. Haven't ski'd pow all year and it should be awesome to see what Lhasa's can do in the deep stuff

Did you try icing them ? 20 on 20 off for an hour or so.

Yeah, was doing that as well as popping a 800mg Ib's 2x a day for the first 2-3 days. That stuff nipped the swelling in the bud pretty well, but it seems like time (and self perscribed narcotics) have been the only things that have been helpful with treating the pain/discomfort

[ex-powderbroker]

Hey, just stopping by to say that I hope it's nothing serious. Hope the brace helps and you get a sick day at Magic in the pow today.

[jgb@etree]

Thanks, ml.

Dunno what's up. Ski'd two days straight and was able to keeps things together pretty well, but I still have a bit of pain. I'd go from feeling great taking a couple of runs to barely being able to walk when I'd pop out of my skis. Going to see the doc on Monday but I can't imagine that some of the stuff I've done the past couple of days would be possible if something were torn.

We shall see.

Thanks for the advice & kind words guys.

Btw. Finally finished that bottle you gave me @ Ullrfest, ML. It was awesome! Thanks again!

[L7]

The stairs thing really is suspicious of 'jumpers knee' or patellar tendonitis. Rest and vitamin I are what is going to fix that in the long run. Ice and heat alternately can help. Where's Vinman when you need him? Of course bruising cartlidge isn't out of the question either. In that case skiing with swelling/bogginess may not be great. The tissue is soft when the swelling is present and can be more susceptible to damage.

Played both games. The tendon is more bothersome for longer and tedious but ultimately less permanent. The cartlidge is a bit more serious long term IMO.

Reading your second post closer I would really lean toward the cartlidge and would proceed very cautiously if I were you.

Paging Vinman.

[jgb@etree]

Thanks for the advice, L7. From the brief reading I did on patellar tendonitis I'm not sure if that is it as it doesn't really hurt at the top of my shin were the patellar tendon connects - but then again, if I knew what I were talking about I wouldn't be soliciting advice here.

Didn't know Vinman was in the know on this type of stuff. Maybe a third mention of his name will cause him to appear in the thread with some unofficial advice... like Beetlejuice. Vinman?

Heading in to see the Ortho later this AM to see what the deal is. Knees have been feeling a bit better yesterday & today. Yesterday AM I only took 2 runs (groomer cruising) with my wife before heading home, and afterwards I felt as close to 'normal' as I have post skiing since I tweaked 'em. Not exactly pain free, but it is quite managable and it's making me much less worried that I'm injured - hopefully just a little banged up.

[NmbrdDays]

JGB sounds like you just tweaked it. When my acl acts up. It's on fire and doesn't really like to move. Let alone climb steps or even carrying anything. Since its getting better that's a good thing.
First day out in Tahoe and intake a rough spill. Get carried off in an ambulance, X-rays, all the good stuff. I have a lil numbness in the finger. The dic said as long as i feel better day to day its nothing to worry about and just take it easy. I know it's not the same type of injury, as long as it gets better you shoul be alright. Safety meetings and beers are a great cure all

[jgb@etree]

^^^ Fucking BUMMER dude - hope like hell you can enjoy the rest of the trip.

Well, just back from the doc & it's time for me to rejoice! Lots pics taken & examined and nothing torn, broken or requiring surgery. Apparently waiting for my Dr. to come back from vacation paid off in spades, as he says I have a contusion on my L medial meniscus. It paid off big time because he said that these are very commonly misdiagnosed as tears since they look like it in the xrays/mri's. He showed me what he was talking about but I had no clue what I was seeing so I just nodded my head and smiled. He says he is certain that it is not torn, and has basically told me to get back to the Vitamin I, ice & rest. Gave a rx for PT but tossed me a couple of therabands and showed me some things I can do at home to help speed up the recovery. He said I should probably take a couple of weeks off, but if I can't to just take it easy and listen to my body. If the knees start screaming, stop.

Now I've just gotta try to remember who I sent my cryo-cuff out to a couple of years back. Was digging thru PM's to figure out who it was (pretty sure it was someone in CO) but I've long since douched those PM's from my box. If this happens to ring a bell with someone, please hit me up so I can get it back. In the meantime, is there anyone with a Large Knee Cryo Cuff that can loan it to me for a month or so? I can order one online, but don't really want to buy another one if I don't have to.

Thanks again to all of those who have offered advice (and sympathy). Stoked to hear that my knees aren't as bad as they feel!

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Glad to hear it jgb. Missed the weekends at magic this year. Recovering from a tibial plateau fracture. See you next year.

[NmbrdDays]

Glad to hear its nothing major. Days my acl acts up its nothing but safety meetings and Xbox. I'm out skiing squaw now. I'm not gonna let a lil thing like that make me miss out in some fresh. Not to mention a good ol massage always helps

[jgb@etree]

Glad to hear it jgb. Missed the weekends at magic this year. Recovering from a tibial plateau fracture. See you next year.

Look on the bright side - this year sucked before March, so you didn't miss much. Next year will (hopefully) be better & you should be back on skis by then. Heal up bro!

Glad to hear its nothing major. Days my acl acts up its nothing but safety meetings and Xbox. I'm out skiing squaw now. I'm not gonna let a lil thing like that make me miss out in some fresh. Not to mention a good ol massage always helps

Glad to hear that you're able to enjoy the rest of your trip. Lets find some time to got trap shooting when you get back east.

[NmbrdDays]

Look on the bright side - this year sucked before March, so you didn't miss much. Next year will (hopefully) be better & you should be back on skis by then. Heal up bro!



Glad to hear that you're able to enjoy the rest of your trip. Lets find some time to got trap shooting when you get back east.

I'll be home sat night. Good to go whenever.

[splat]

Dude, I have a couple cryo cuffs if you still need one of them.

Sounds like a prp injection would do you a world of good about now.