I need a new TV -- advise needed

[Foggy_Goggles]

So I promissed myself that if the Pat go the the Super Bowl, I'm buying a new TV. I'm generally a "if it ain't broke I don't need a new one guy" but the 27" Fischer is about worthless. I'm really not interested in become an expert on the alphabet soup of tech -- HDTV,Plasma,LCD,Wide screen etc. Hopefully the maggotry can point me in the right direction.

32" ish
quality over size - I'd like to have this TV for 10yrs
warranty - 2yrs? we just had a plasma at work here blow up after a year
I'm told I need wide sceen as all DVDs are going to this format, correct?
I'm trying not to spend much more that $1K, realistic?
Brands - Sony's have been good to me but they are expensive
Retailers - I hate big boxers like best buy, any onliners to recommend/ stay away from?
So far I've found this Sony What you think.

Drop the knowledge

[half-fast]

that sony's not widescreen-spec-aspect ratio 4:3

[Viva]

Samsung digital TV. I think that this is the one I recently purchased. It comes in 32" as well as this 30" jobby:

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/n...P3075WHX%2fXAA

[mmmthmtskier]

30-32"-Sanyo, JVC, Sharp, Toshiba. 34-36"-Toshiba, Sony, JVC, Panasonic. I'd stick with these brands because of their reliability. Can you give me a review of your Cabela's Pinnacle gloves?

[ljm]

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KV_30HS...l?tag=pdtl-img

that seems to fit your criteria other than maybe being a bit smallish at 30"

[goofygrin]

What do you watch?

HDTV? DVDs? Normal TV?

a 32" tv isn't really an "investment" these days (read something that they want you to use for 10 years).

I would not pay for a widescreen tv < 45", especially if I wasn't going to watch a significant amount of HDTV or DVDs (remember a widescreen tv doesn't get rid of the black bars on a dvd). (this is coming from someone that had a 16:9 tv in 1998, but got rid of it in 2000 to get a bigger 4:3 tv because he watched significanly more square tv than rectangular... now I'd say I'm 75% HDTV [read widescreen], but I haven't got my moneys worth out of the 4 year old tv yet).

I agree on the brands listed previously (Sony, JVC, Toshiba). I would recommend a normal tube type tv rather than an LCD/Plasma/DLP, etc. as for that size, CRT Tube tvs (the normal kind) still have the best picture (and really are the cheapest still too). They are heavier and bigger though.

onecall.com, amazon, J&R, froogle, etc. are sites I would look at if you didn't want to go to a physical store (although you can bargain at these stores).

Too bad you don't have a Fry's near you...

[Foggy_Goggles]

Can you give me a review of your Cabela's Pinnacle gloves?

They kick ass. I'm sure you can find a better glove (removable liner etc.) but these have help up for a least a hundred days or touring and area skiing. They are waterproof, breathable, durable and warm. What else to you want for $30.

[Foggy_Goggles]

What do you watch?

HDTV? DVDs? Normal TV?

a 32" tv isn't really an "investment" these days (read something that they want you to use for 10 years).

I would not pay for a widescreen tv < 45", especially if I wasn't going to watch a significant amount of HDTV or DVDs (remember a widescreen tv doesn't get rid of the black bars on a dvd). (this is coming from someone that had a 16:9 tv in 1998, but got rid of it in 2000 to get a bigger 4:3 tv because he watched significanly more square tv than rectangular... now I'd say I'm 75% HDTV [read widescreen], but I haven't got my moneys worth out of the 4 year old tv yet).

I agree on the brands listed previously (Sony, JVC, Toshiba). I would recommend a normal tube type tv rather than an LCD/Plasma/DLP, etc. as for that size, CRT Tube tvs (the normal kind) still have the best picture (and really are the cheapest still too). They are heavier and bigger though.

onecall.com, amazon, J&R, froogle, etc. are sites I would look at if you didn't want to go to a physical store (although you can bargain at these stores).

Too bad you don't have a Fry's near you...

Yeh, I agree that the plasma/flat stuff is out due to price. I wan't cable TV mostly and movies. Is digital cable in High Def? Will it be shortly?

[connersw]

I can't really comment on particular models since it has been a couple years since I bought mine and did all the research. I would say though to make sure that you get an HDTV if you want it for 10-years. By 2006, all major channels need to switch to the HDTV format per law. The picture difference is unbelievably better when watching HDTV programming so you do not want to miss out. Looks like that Sony you have linked is HDTV so you should be set.

On a side note, make sure to stay away from EDTV. This is a marketing ploy to get you to spend more money on a TV than it is really worth. It is a step between regular TV and HDTV, and it will be completely obsolete in 2-years.

[Red Baron]

amen on the EDTV comment, not a good idea to buy one of those. also, check to see if a tuner is included in any HDTV you buy, otherwise you could be facing $250+ just to get over-the-air HD broadcasts.

If you're on cable or a dish, you can get HD through them as well, and not have to buy a tuner, but the picture quality on the over-the-air HD is MUCH better than what you get on cable or the dish (not counting VOOM, the HD network)

[Snow Dog]

By 2006, all major channels need to switch to the HDTV format per law. The picture difference is unbelievably better when watching HDTV programming so you do not want to miss out. Looks like that Sony you have linked is HDTV so you should be set.

This is a big fat lie. The switch is to digital TV. There are 18 DTV formats from SD (standard definition) to HD (High def). I thought that all TVs sold in the USofA had to have a digital/HD tuner (that's recent so there might be old stock).

The DVD format is fixed (and is not HD) but the next 2 formats will be HD.

That Sony is a nice TV because:
- it's a flat front CRT (still the best picture)
- it upconverts SD to HD (great for DVDs)
- it has a component video input (good for current gear)
- it has a DVI input (good for future gear)

[Benny Profane]

I got a 32'' JVC at Best Buy this summer for $525. Flat screen and cool looking. Why spend more? Skis and women are expensive, but gloves and TVs are cheap. Save your money. (face it, most of what you watch is borderline garbage anyway, right?)

[goofygrin]

If you're on cable or a dish, you can get HD through them as well, and not have to buy a tuner, but the picture quality on the over-the-air HD is MUCH better than what you get on cable or the dish (not counting VOOM, the HD network)

That sir is a gawd damn lie... well right now it is...

the streams are not reencoded to go on the birds or to go across the cable line (can you imagine your cable company ponying up the $$ to reencode MPEG2 @ 1920x1080i @ a super high bitrate?

Note that Dish Network is talking about going to Mpeg4 for HD (which means they will reencode and you will lose quality). It will also make their current receivers obsolete (yah for them).

Digital cable is not HD, but is SD.

Something like this is prolly around what you want (unless you want to step up... but if you are going to spend > $1k, you might want to look at a n entry level DLP projector, as it's going to give you the most inches/$).

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....2&type=product

OF course, these are really nice: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....2&type=product

[Red Baron]

That sir is a gawd damn lie...

Well, let me put it this way; I work at a TV station that was the first out of the 23 our company owns, to broadcast in full 720p. I walk by the racks in the hall everyday that do all the HD reception - the picture is absolutely unbelievable, just perfect.

In our engineering shop, we have a set of confidence monitors for both our SD and HD broadcasts, and feeds from off-air, cable and DirectTV.

The HD picture over the air totally blows away whats coming off the dish, and off local cable, and I'm looking at them on three identical monitors set up exactly the same.

Also, over-the-air HD gets you all the sub channels of any main channel, which cable & dish (in this market) don't do, and as stations start putting content on those sub-channels, they're going to be important to be able to recieve.

[Theodore]

I have the TV that you ask about at the bottom of the first post. I love it. I bought it ~1.5 years ago, and it has been trouble free. Picture is great, features are great(nothin like playing PS2 and watching football at the same time), def. worth it. I notice a big difference between its picture quality and normal TV's. The digital filter really helps. One warning though, its heavy! It literally weighs as much as I do, 175. I'd highly recommend it though. Makes even more sense if you have a Sony digi-cam, the slide show/movies are a neat feature.

[Foggy_Goggles]

As usually, you afirm that I don't know shit. Let me make sure I've got this right.

Almost all DVDs are in widescreen and HD

For an additional $5, comcast gives me 14 channels in high def. Are these in 16:9 widescreen? I assume more channels will be HD going forward.

Comcast gives me the box (tuner). What was the metro gel at WorstBuy telling me about the high dollar cables I need to go from the tuner to the TV?

Is it worth the extra $500 to get HD/16:9?

[Snow Dog]

As usually, you afirm that I don't know shit. Let me make sure I've got this right.

Almost all DVDs are in widescreen and HD

No, no, no, no. DVDs are standard definition but are better than cable or over-the-air braodcasts. Yes they are often displayed in a widescreen format but that doesn't make them HD. There's also some technology at work in the DVD player to enhace and stretch the picture for widescreen TVs.

For an additional $5, comcast gives me 14 channels in high def. Are these in 16:9 widescreen? I assume more channels will be HD going forward.

Those are HD and widescreen but sometimes the show is SD and upconverted to HD.

Comcast gives me the box (tuner). What was the metro gel at WorstBuy telling me about the high dollar cables I need to go from the tuner to the TV?

That's a scam. Any decent quality cable will. What's "decent"? The cables that come with the gear is decent. Don't buy the cheapest cable but don't but the priciest either. Monster cables and their ilk are marketing genius but you won't see or hear a difference.

Is it worth the extra $500 to get HD/16:9?

I don't like stretching the picture to fit. It looks odd to me.

With SD you get bars top and bottom when watching widescreen.

With widescreen you get bars on the sides when watching SD. Just to confuse you -- many shows are shot in HD and donwconverted to SD when broadcast (there's black bars top and bottom). A good widescrren HD TV can upconvert it back to widescreen (and remove the black bars).

There is a certain coolness factor with a widescreen TV

I still like a 4:3 style TV. Where I live there's no (OTA) over-the-air HD but if I lived somewhere with a bunch of stations I would probably get widescreen with an OTA tuner.

If you have time there are web sites and forums where people discuss their experiences with HDTV and specific cable providers.


On another note -- a VCR WILL NOT record a HD signal. If you record or time shift the only practical way is to buy/rent a set-top-box with PVR (personal video recorder) built in.

[goofygrin]

Well, let me put it this way; I work at a TV station that was the first out of the 23 our company owns, to broadcast in full 720p. I walk by the racks in the hall everyday that do all the HD reception - the picture is absolutely unbelievable, just perfect.

I never said that HD isn't awesome... I'd say that I watch 60-75% HD now... and since most people's displays can't even resolve 720p, boradcasting in 720p actually makes your station tend to look *worse* on regular joe's sets (due to the down conversion from 720p to 1080i). Now if ya'll could jack it up to 1080p so I could use my projector to it's fullest I'd be a happy camper.

The HD picture over the air totally blows away whats coming off the dish, and off local cable, and I'm looking at them on three identical monitors set up exactly the same.

The signal coming from the cable co is probably something on their end (which who can blame them? they don't hire the brightest guys)... and since no local HD stations in SLC are on any of the little dishes, I'm not sure how you could compare your OTA signal vs. that on the sat...

Also, over-the-air HD gets you all the sub channels of any main channel, which cable & dish (in this market) don't do, and as stations start putting content on those sub-channels, they're going to be important to be able to recieve.

Oh big deal... NO, repeat NO channel has anything worth watching on the subchannels. And when a channel does use the subchannel, it normally makes the main (or the sub.1) look like crap because of the extra bandwith it uses. (one of the local stations was broadcasting HDNet on the main and their local crap on a subchannel... The bandwith taken from HDNet was very noticable).

I've had every flavor of HD and have been watching HD for a long time. I've watched it on computer screens, 34" tvs, 60" tvs and my 120" projector... there are very few differences between the signals, EXCEPT that over cable or DBS my signal never faded because of an airplane flying over my house or a new building going up (OTA broadcast? VHF! UHF! What is this 1982? Give me a freaking break! I sure hope you don't live in the mountains or have a large metropolitan area in between you and the antenna...) There are people at work that still can't get Fox or CBS here (yeah this is just an antenna thing, but who wants to aim an antenna?)

You want to know the best thing about OTA broadcasts? When the station decides to change the PSIP data... and you can't find your channel any more... or it makes your $300-1000 HD receiver lock up and shut down (if you don't believe that this happens then you need to go have a chat with your engineering department -- it happens all the time).

Imagine your wife goes to watch "CSI: Maimi" on Monday while you're out watching the game... but CBS has f'ed with their PSIP and your OTA receiver can't find it any more... she calls to bitch you out and you try to walk her through a rescan of the channels over the phone... vs... well CBS is channel 212 and it's always there (and if its not you get on the phone with the dbs or cable provider and get free shit).

Oh yeah... the best thing about my non-ota receiver? Dual HD Tuner PVR. Yeah I can time shift my HD so that I can watch it whenever I want... You got an OTA for that yet? (yes HDTivo, but that's $1000 and when that gets zapped that's a hard one to replace)...

[Theodore]

That's a scam. Any decent quality cable will. What's "decent"? The cables that come with the gear is decent. Don't buy the cheapest cable but don't but the priciest either. Monster cables and their ilk are marketing genius but you won't see or hear a difference.

Not to mention that Monster cable is a shitty company that is trying to sue every company it can for using the name Monster.

[Red Baron]

Goofy, are you in SLC or Texas? Just clear that up for me.

All valid points you make; however, you are going to see stuff on the sub-channels soon that has value, NBC is about to launch a local weather channel on all of it's stations nationwide, distributed on a subchannel, it's in a few markets already. And if you have kids, you can always get cartoons on the PBS subchannels.

I mis-spoke about the monitoring of our HD stuff, the HD montior in engineering has the fox-downlink rather than the mini-dish on it, so it's still a vaild comparison, side by side.

You better get used to seeing lots of sub-channels, since that's where the industry is headed- more channels = more revenue.

One station here had to change their PSIP data last week and everyone had to re-scan, yes, thats a huge pain, and something we'll all have to deal with from now on.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Holy shit, I think I'll just go get the $500 joby Benny is talking about.

[Son1cdeth]

Foggy, just get one of these and be done with it. Look at the picture on that baby!

nice sunset..

[Reisen]

Wow, lots of confusion/misinformation here. I'll try to clarify/consolidate..

First, if you're going to make the expenditure on a new tv, take a few minutes to learn what you call "the alphabet soup". It looks like you're doing that here, however, and to be fair, you are getting a lot of information (there's just the occasional error or unclear statement thrown in).

Second, the way I see it, you really have two options. Either go cheap and watch normal tv on a smallish set, or go expensive and get HD on a widescreen set. But if you're going to do it, go as far as you can. You'll be kicking yourself if you compromise.

A couple of responses to things people posted:

-Snow dog is correct in that the mandated switch is to digital tv, not HD TV. Big difference. However, he is wrong when he writes all tv's have to have digital/hd tuners. A digital tuner and HD tuner are not the same. All tv's have to have digital tuners, but they are definitely not mandating they have HD tuners. You actually don't want to buy a tv with a built in HD tuner. Better to buy, or preferable rent the tuner through your cable company so you can continually upgrade it as new technology becomes available.

-Snow dog is partially incorrect in his answers to foggy's questions farther down... DVD's lie somewhere between normal SD tv (480i) and HDTV (which starts at 720p, and can be either 720p or 1080i. In the future, it will probably be 1080p, but noone broadcasts in that yet). Specifically, DVD's are 480p. There is no technology in DVD players to enhance or stretch the pictures for widescreens. The DVD's are either widescreen or not. The only stretching ever done is done by the TV. Widescreen DVD's (and broadcasts) are not stretched. Rather, they just include more of the picture (you see more stuff to the sides).

-The only channel I know of that occasionally upconverts to HD is ESPN HD. It looks like shit. However, they also have some legit HD stuff that looks very good.

-Monster cables are a scam. Your HD box from the cable company will likely come with Component cables. If you want an extra pair for a DVD player or XBox, don't pay extra for monster.

-Upconverting solely has to do with how the TV displays pixels. You cannot "Upconvert to widescreen". It's either broadcast in widescreen or it's not, the hardware can do nothing other than stretch it.

Goofygrin writes: "I never said that HD isn't awesome... I'd say that I watch 60-75% HD now... and since most people's displays can't even resolve 720p, boradcasting in 720p actually makes your station tend to look *worse* on regular joe's sets (due to the down conversion from 720p to 1080i). Now if ya'll could jack it up to 1080p so I could use my projector to it's fullest I'd be a happy camper."

-Any HDTV can resolve 720p. Some may do 1080i natively, but I think it's misleading to say the "average Joe's set" has trouble with 720p. That's far from true. The vast majority of sets look great on 720p, which is why it's the preferred HD broadcast format (that is mostly influenced by the fact it handles fast moving action like sports better).

Foggy, if you really want to buy a nice TV and have it last a long time, you're going to want to spend some dough and buy the newer technology. If you find that you can't afford it, I advise you to save up for a year or so when you can. My suggestions:

-Widescreen format. Yes, not all DVD's are 16:9 (some are 16:10, usually actions movies), but all widescreen broadcasts are. Broadcasts are going to continue moving to widescreen/HD, and you're missing out on half the picture if you don't have a widesreen tv (there's literally a ton of crap going on you can't see. Think of a football game or basketball game where you can't see all the players at once.

-HD capable. Others were wise to say avoid ED. HDTV IS the future, and not buying a set is like buying an 8-track as people moved to CD's.

-Size and technology really depends on your situation, and how much you're willing to spend. Do you live in a small apartment, or house? Is the room you're in large enough to accomodate a big TV? You need to have at a minimum twice the size of the TV as distance between where you watch and where the TV is. So on a 50 inch set, you need to be more than 8 feet back from the TV. Do you live on the ground floor or the 4th floor of a building with no elevator? If so, you might have a tough time lugging a 300 pound TV up four flights of stairs.

I personally own a 50 inch Panasonic LCD HDTV. I bought it as a brand new model in September of 2003. The set looks great, has tons of inputs, doubles as a computer monitor (a really big one), and only weighs like 60 pounds (that's less than a fifth of what a CRT set that size would weigh). Not to mention how much thinner it is. At the time, retail on the TV was between $3200 and 3500, and I paid about $2100.

Prices continue to fall. My set today, at least the latest model of the set, I believe goes for around $2500. So it dropped a full grand in about a year. As more sets are sold and the tech is improved, sets will continue to drop.

Finally, lots of people have adviced buying CRT sets. Yes, they do have the best picture, but we're not talking a huge difference here. Certainly nothing like the difference between SD and HDTV. Further, the sets are huge, and you need to have them professionally calibrated ($$$) once a year or the guns go out of alignment. With your guns out of alignment, you're picture won't come close to matching newer techs (plasma, DLP, LCOS, LCD).

If I were going to buy a tv and had the money, I'd buy a Samsung DLP. I just chose one for my girlfriend's parents, and they love it.

[optics]

I've just gone through the exact same hunt.

This is my choice, but I think it *just* came out, so I'm waiting a few weeks until it's around online and cheaper.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisi...?model=30hfx84

[Snow Dog]

-Snow dog is correct in that the mandated switch is to digital tv, not HD TV. Big difference. However, he is wrong when he writes all tv's have to have digital/hd tuners. A digital tuner and HD tuner are not the same. All tv's have to have digital tuners, but they are definitely not mandating they have HD tuners. You actually don't want to buy a tv with a built in HD tuner. Better to buy, or preferable rent the tuner through your cable company so you can continually upgrade it as new technology becomes available.

I remember a lot of hand wringing a year or two ago because OTA tuners were mandated even though most people were on cable or sat. There was extra hand wringing in Canada because we would be paying for unusable tuners. I guess that didn't happen.

-Snow dog is partially incorrect in his answers to foggy's questions farther down... DVD's lie somewhere between normal SD tv (480i) and HDTV (which starts at 720p, and can be either 720p or 1080i. In the future, it will probably be 1080p, but noone broadcasts in that yet). Specifically, DVD's are 480p. There is no technology in DVD players to enhance or stretch the pictures for widescreens. The DVD's are either widescreen or not. The only stretching ever done is done by the TV. Widescreen DVD's (and broadcasts) are not stretched. Rather, they just include more of the picture (you see more stuff to the sides).

Hey, I learned something today. DVDs are encoded at 720x480, or 704x480, or 352x480, or 352x240. All at 30fps.

-The only channel I know of that occasionally upconverts to HD is ESPN HD. It looks like shit. However, they also have some legit HD stuff that looks very good.

I've heard bad things about FOX using 480p and calling it HD.

Finally, lots of people have adviced buying CRT sets. Yes, they do have the best picture, but we're not talking a huge difference here. Certainly nothing like the difference between SD and HDTV. Further, the sets are huge, and you need to have them professionally calibrated ($$$) once a year or the guns go out of alignment. With your guns out of alignment, you're picture won't come close to matching newer techs (plasma, DLP, LCOS, LCD).

I really dislike how the brightness falls off when you move off-axis on most rear projection TVs. The newest ones are a lot better but it bugs me enough that I won't consider them.