Crows v. Gulls

[flyandski365]

The world would be a more desolate place without either one.

--

Plus there would be a lot more garbage around.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

If you ride a ferry across the sound there will always be a couple or more gulls riding the "bow wave" of air at the front of the ferry. I think that ferry pushing all that air in front of it gives them a free ride all the way across the sound as they almost never flap their wings, just soar back and forth across the front of the boat.

[GeezerSteve]

While we're making taxonomic distinctions, note that virtually all gulls that frequent garbage dumps in the lower 48 are one of two species, to wit, Ring-billed Gull or Herring Gull. (It's not uncommon to see Glaucous Gulls at AK landfills.) Most of the other 30+ North American gull species have no inclination to get anywhere near a landfill, except for an occasional confused specimen blown off course.

That RBGs and HGs frequent landfills results from evolutionary adaptation. Ring-billed Gulls and Herring Gulls are like Norway Rats and, like the latter, hang around landfills, restaurant dumpsters and parking lots.

Crows* have adapted to human habitats and hang where people hang out. Most people and most crows don't care to hang around landfills. All Corvids are really smart. Indeed, Crows share many similarities with us and they deserve our respect.

*I use the term "Crow" to refer to our common crow species, the American Crow. Vancouver, BC and environs are also home to a similar species, the Northwestern Crow, which can readily be distinguished from an American Crow by its call. Some experts deem the NWC a mere subspecies (aka "race") of the AC.

[DeathVan]

Crows are the skiers of the bird world

[iceman]

Vancouver, BC and environs are also home to a similar species, the Northwestern Crow, which can readily be distinguished from an American Crow by its call.

"Caw, eh? Caw, eh?"

[Pow4Brains]

As for Flock of Seagulls, everytime that song comes up on my ipod, I turn it up- way up.

Hello new signature.

[stash searcher]

interior AK has ravens year round and glaucous gulls in summer. both enjoy the dumps and the parking lots. the ravens commute to and from town every morning and evening.. they live up in the hills and fly into town to graze. you can always tell the folks that leave garbage in the backs of their pickups by the raven droppings painting the sides. i'm not that fond of the gulls, but i do appreciate their flying ability. and jonathan livingston seagull has long been one of my favorite books.

i was told as a small child to never leave the gascap on the roof, cause a raven'd steal it- my mom saw that happend more than once. most of them love shiny things. i've heard the most amazing noises come from ravens, they have been sitting on the roofs of stores and on lightpoles in the parking lots and in an empty lot, it sounds like lots of people conversing- it's the ravens. i've heard them mimic the sound of water dripping into a puddle- just amazing. I love to watch them fly and do barrel rolls, i will never forget going running along the pipeline road on the north slope with the ravens accompanying me and doing tricks. at the research station i was working in, there is a local pair of ravens who have been there as long as the people have, more than 25 years now. the male is Poe (from edgar allen) and the female is Eleanor. Poe knows to hang out at breakfast time for the scraps leftover from the kitchen. each summer they have a batch of youngsters that would come hang out and caw all day every day and wait for the occasional crumb. you can always tell the teenage ravens by the annoying caw. they're so excited by the fact that they can make a cool noise that they repeat themselves all day long. it's about the only raven noise i'm not all that fond of, though now i can try to remember it fondly since i don't have to listen to it every day for a month..
the natives here say when you're hunting, watch the ravens- they will point you to the prey for they are interested in your scraps. there are many many legends about the raven in the local folklore. wish i could find some of my cool raven pictures..

[goldenboy]

Hello new signature.

You're welcome. Just played the youtube from page 1 again. Funny thing is that if you put the dude with the sunglasses in a MGMT video and had him play the same riff, nobody would be the wiser.

[brutah]

most people can't tell the difference between a crow and a raven.

Corvidae is the smartest bird family.
crows have been shown to count to ten.
use reasoning to obtain food.
use tools to obtain food.
do this
in europe, ravens possess the souls of fallen skiers.
crows can snowboard.
look what ravens can do
Jays can recover a remarkably high percentage (~75%) of cached seeds/nuts

what can a seagull do?
i saw a seagull eating a dead seagull this weekend in so cal.

[iceman]

There's this clump of trees near the local mall that's a crow colony. I've seen estimates that there are over 800,000 crows in the colony. They set off flashbangs all the time to get them to move but they just fly up and then come settle back down until the next one, over and over and over.

I'll tell you what gulls would do, move.

[brutah]

Gulls = Utah's State Bird because they 'sposedly ate a bunch of crickets per Bigamy Young's orders. They taste a little better than pigeon, but worse than parrot.

Magpies = the assholes of the bird world. Saw 3 of them attack and kill another bird during my lunchbreak last summer

lots of birds eat other birds. esp. in the corvidae family.

lots of birds eat other birds eggs, esp in the corvidae family

lots of people eat doves which is in the same family as pigeons also known as rock doves. mourning doves and eurasian collared doves are quite tasty. I think pigeons would probably be pretty gross due to their diets and habitats in cities (you are what you eat)

fun fact about columbidaes (dove family) is that they're the only birds that can sip water. other birds fill their beaks with water and then have to tilt back their heads.

yes, i'm a nerd and a birder

[stash searcher]

i just remembered a story that was in our newspaper a year or two ago about ravens. one raven managed to connect some lines on a power pole in town and got himself zapped. a large flock of ravens gathered in a nearby tree, gave the fallen a minute of silence, and then they all flew off again. i thought it was really interesting and powerful.

[GeezerSteve]

Crows and Ravens often exhibits grieving behavior. Elephants too.

lots of birds eat other birds. esp. in the corvidae family

esp? What about accipiters and falcons?

[GiBo]

The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.

~Jack Handey

[BCMtnHound]

Here's a favorite corvidae most of you have met and probably even have pics feeding from your hand: Clark's Nutcracker .

They have amazingly excellent memory recall, are the primary propogators of Whitebark Pine (which is now endangered due to changing/loss of habitat, local and imported pest and disease, and is an important alpine food source for many alpine critters), fiercely defend their nests and food caches from competition and predators, are mostly monogamous and often nest in small loose-knit colonies. Very cool birds.

Any corvidae over an inland or landfill gull in my book.

[GeezerSteve]

Clarks Nutcrackers are cool birds, for sure. Behavior is more like jays, i.e., less social than crows, ravens and magpies. In WA there are two distinct alternative habitats for them, Whitebark Pine subalpine zones and lower Ponderosa Pine stands. Clarks Nutcrackers will cache seeds in hundreds of places and then return months later to find 90% of the caches -- without a GPS

Wow, I hadn't hear that Whitebark Pine has been designated as endangered. Fortunately, nearly all of WA's Whitebark Pines are in protected wilderness areas.

[brutah]

Crows and Ravens often exhibits grieving behavior. Elephants too.

my dog was a killing machine and occasionally he'd kill a magpie and for the next few hours 10-20 magpies would sit on our fence yapping at my dog.....

esp? What about accipiters and falcons?

I was just saying its fairly common that birds in the corvidae family will eat another bird if the opportunity presents itself. Obviously, birds of prey (falcons, hawks, eagles) will kill and eat other birds. gulls and corvidae are more opportunists (read: scavengers) in this category then actively hunting and killing other birds......

[BCMtnHound]

Wow, I hadn't hear that Whitebark Pine has been designated as endangered. Fortunately, nearly all of WA's Whitebark Pines are in protected wilderness areas.

Haven't searched the US classifications, but Canada added it to the lists in 2010
http://www.cosewic.gc.ca/eng/sct1/se...nFlag=0&Page=1
http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/eswp/repor...ode=PGPIN04010

Unfortunately, preserving it will be very difficult. Introduced eurasian whitepine blister rust, the current bark beetle outbreaks, and long-standing fire suppression in frequent low-intensity wildfire ecologies are all contributing to its rapid decline (along with changing climate). Members of the prov and fed research groups recently completed an extensive genetics program, collecting as much seed as they could find over as large a range as possible. It's generally not within the timber harvesting landbase so over-harvesting is not an issue; we are even looking at trying to order seedlings for lower elevation planting (within its range) but that is not without its own challenges. Best thing the public can do now is to leave it unharmed when they are in the high country.

[GeezerSteve]

brutah, true that some corvid species will take down a weak, crippled or infant songbird, but I would guess that few NA corvids ever actually take a healthy adult bird. A typical crow or raven gets more calories from bird eggs. And, of course, one can't lump all raptors as chiefly bird eaters. 99% of the diets of most accipters, Northern Pygmy Owls and most falcon species diets consists of birds. The %-age of birds in a Buteos' diet varies from species to species and from place to place, and, yup, a Red-tailed Hawk in some environments might get quite a bit (though not most) of its calories from killing song birds. Bald Eagles are scavangers, eating mostly dead and dying fish around here. I've never heard of a Baldie taking a healthy live bird (but I have seen a Baldie munching a road kill gull.)

[refried]

The Bald Eagles arond here mostly eat ducks and road kill, I watched a pair of eagles pick of a family of ducks one by one then went back after the mother,they waited until they were far enough from shore then took turns flying in and grabbing one. Always lots of bird feathers under the eagle trees.
Had one almost take my cat one day, I was walking along the fence with the cat walking on top of it, I felt something brush my face and when I turned I saw the eagle just above the cat but it didn't grab it for some reason. This same eagle used to comute every day to the mainland, He'd fly off in the morning then return in the afternoon. They leave every winter for about a month every year, I guess they're over on the Skagit or Nooksack river feasting on salmon.
I've seen ducks eating other dead ducks.

[GeezerSteve]

refried, I stand corrected. Baldies do eat waterfowl in some habitats, although that Baldie likely gets many more calories from dead and dying fish, the chief diet of Baldies in your part of the world. Quite a spectacle you saw. Cool. The Baldie probably passed on the cat because he didn't want to get his eyes scratched out. Dead fish don't do that.

[Ted Striker]

All this raven talk has made me thirsty



Back when I worked on a mountain, the ravens imitated the beeping sounds of our snowmobiles and cats with eerie accuracy. I heard one the other day at Baker imitating a car alarm.

[crackboy]

http://www.cracked.com/article_19042...you-think.html

[iceman]

http://www.cracked.com/article_19042...you-think.html

Interesting article. Also kinda kewl that he brings up gulls in the first paragraph

[GeezerSteve]

Great article. Too bad an editor put "terrifying" in the title. Some of the studies upon which that article is premised were based on experiments with a murder of crows at Freeway Park in Seattle,which I see several times a week. (The scientists used a Dick Cheney mask for the human face identification experiment). I've long had great respect for corvids, but after I learned about American Crows' problem solving abilities, handing down information from generation to generation, propensity to plan and obvious displays of empathy for their fellow crows, I now deem them equals. If you haven't seen it, be sure to watch PBS's Nature: A Murder of Crows. The New Yorker ran a article about the studies a few years ago. Wonderful stuff.