We're definitely going to war again...

[Slick Willy]

Jenna <==== So much kinkier than Barbara.

I like em both.

[SkiingBear]

150,000 troops, approximately, in Iraq.

500,000 troops in Vietnam at its height.

Roughly 58,616 US troops were KIA.

I think the number of KIA in Iraq is almost 1,370.

Take a look at the wounded/amputee numbers and do another comparison. Many of those killed in Vietnam would be alive today (albeit without limbs) with todays medicine. The number of soldiers coming out of Irag missing body pieces is the real story of how this "police action" is really going.

[Arty50]

What the hell is happening to our country??

Gerrymandering:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031208fa_fact

[mr_gyptian]

hey nest, it's old news.

skiing bear. I think the casualties number resides below 10k. the Vietnam number is around 150K.

almost three years after a full scale invasion. it isn't even close.

nice try.

[InspectorGadget]

Barbara <=== So much hotter than Jenna

Barbara, W's mother? --->



I could be mistaken, but wasn't one of the founding principles behind the new world freedom from religious oppression. The lines separating church and state have long since been obliterated. Personally, I find the prospect of saving people in the U.S., and around the world, from themselves to be more than a little frightening.


"We're the government, we're here to help."

[cj001f]

skiing bear. I think the casualties number resides below 10k. the Vietnam number is around 150K.

almost three years after a full scale invasion. it isn't even close.

It took Vietnam 15 years to get to that number bucko.

[Greydon Clark]

almost three years after a full scale invasion. it isn't even close.

nice try.

You are such a fucking asshole. Rot in hell fucker.

[mr_gyptian]

Gerrymandering:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031208fa_fact

arty,

the article strangely leaves out the fact that the Texas Democrats did the same thing in 1998.

Ahnuld wants to do the same thing in CA because the same parties keep dominating districts.

If ideas don't compete how do you know which is best?

[Plakespear]

No huge poppy trade.

That is bad news.

[mr_gyptian]

It took Vietnam 15 years to get to that number bucko.

greydon, screeching doesn't become you.

cj. you must not be a math major.

Vietnam looks to have had a 10k/yr rate. a full scale commitment did not occur until 1966/67. withdrawal with honor occured in 72?

divide 10K by 3.

thank you.

At present we've removed a dictator and are fighting 20,000 some odd insurgents. These "minutemen" are supported by Iran. a half assed country at best. not exactly the Soviet Union at the height of its power.

[DaveTV]

So Mr. G: WHEN ARE YOU ENLISTING?? Do tell...

[cj001f]

greydon, screeching doesn't become you.

cj. you must not be a math major.

Vietnam looks to have had a 10k/yr rate. a full scale commitment did not occur until 1966/67. withdrawal with honor occured in 72?

I'm an engineer you shitmobile flogging schyster.


The only year casualties exceeded 10k was 1968. The only years casualties esceed 5050 were 67-69.
http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

[watersnowdirt]

So Mr. G: WHEN ARE YOU ENLISTING?? Do tell...

My question as well.

As much as I hate the idea of a draft, I'd be willing to bet that in the case of a draft being reinstated, we might suddenly find ourselves a little less quick to call for war, when some of this country's politicians who seem to be so quick to send our young POOR people across the world to fight might find themselves worrying that their own children might have to fight these battles.

[DaveTV]

We will have a tough time restocking the reserves and national guard forces after this DEBACLE What family guy/gal is gonna want to be a "weekend warrior" now, after they just shanghai-d them and sent them to Babylon for years?

[SkiingBear]

A serious question to ponder:

Where are the politicians children in this war of incredible world importance?

Seriously, if this war is so important, where are they? Let's look back at WWII...another war considered to be important (in no way am I implying that it wasn't). The Kennedy family allowed their children to go and become heroes, as did the Bush family. So, if this war is so damned righteous, where are they?

[doofdoof]

greydon, screeching doesn't become you.

cj. you must not be a math major.

Vietnam looks to have had a 10k/yr rate. a full scale commitment did not occur until 1966/67. withdrawal with honor occured in 72?

divide 10K by 3.

thank you.

At present we've removed a dictator and are fighting 20,000 some odd insurgents. These "minutemen" are supported by Iran. a half assed country at best. not exactly the Soviet Union at the height of its power.

The Vietnam comparison just does not hold up. That was a completely different era of warfare, and there were actually opposing forces.

The current situation in Iraq is just an occupation with a small (given) fanatical bunch of their *freedom* fighters attacking the occupying force.

Actually why compare anyway?

No WMD, no Al Qaeda, no link to 911, just a lingering thorn in the Bush family's rich Texan arses.

Isn't 1370 enough dead for no reason?

[splat]

Funny how the US troops had been training for urban warfare a long time before 9/11. Guess we shoulda seen it coming.

[Slick Willy]

Funny how the US troops had been training for urban warfare a long time before 9/11. Guess we shoulda seen it coming.

Well, I recall training for close quarters combat becoming a much higher priority after the issues we faced while invading Mogadishu.

[splat]

Agreed. It was anticipated.

[Stu Gotz]

Vietnam looks to have had a 10k/yr rate. a full scale commitment did not occur until 1966/67. withdrawal with honor occured in 72?

divide 10K by 3.

thank you.

At present we've removed a dictator and are fighting 20,000 some odd insurgents. These "minutemen" are supported by Iran. a half assed country at best. not exactly the Soviet Union at the height of its power.

I think some veterans have a different view than Mr. G.

http://www.slate.com/id/2111432

"Critics of the war may use this analysis as one more piece of ammunition to attack the effort; some supporters may continue to refer to casualties as "light," noting that typically tens of thousands of Americans must die in war before domestic support crumbles. Both miss the point. The casualty statistics make clear that our nation is involved in a war whose intensity on the ground matches that of previous American wars. Indeed, the proportional burden on the infantryman is at its highest level since World War I. With next year's budget soon to be drafted, it is time for Washington to finally address their needs accordingly."

[TJ.Brk]

I took course's in Religous theology at the war college during the time I was there.

Then I took courses in religous ethnic studies when I was going through my BSN program.

Shit scares the hell out of me now. But only God knows. All we can do is try and treat each other with compassion and understanding everyone deserves. And keep the faith that others we meet during these trying times will do the same.

To be honest. It is basically what all of us in this room do. Sure we may not agree with another maggots point of view. But we would all make sure we kept each other from harm, no matter how bad things may get. IMHO

I love all of you. We may of had our little "Tit for tats" but I would fight for each and everyone of you to keep your family's from any harm"

[Dexter Rutecki]

Didn't I tell you to hide TJ's liquor?

[str8line]

Mistaken to be an Illinois Senator last week.

Oh, are any of you not spending any money for the next 24 hours in protest?

I just sold Two Super Duty's. you've got some catching up to do

Oh, you're a car salesman. Now I understand...

[BobMc]

Oh, you're a car salesman. Now I understand...

Hey now, that's the second time someone ripped on Gyptian because he is a car salesman. I beg to differ, I sold cars for 5 years and have known many guys (and gals) who sell cars. I propose we rip on Gyptian for being an ass instead of his profession.



BobMc

[Plakespear]

Oh, are any of you not spending any money for the next 24 hours in protest?

I spent some money on a case of Labatt's and a M*A*S*H* DVD. Read what you want into that.

But if I didn't spend any money it wouldn't be in protest, it's because I'm fuckin' broke.