2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[CallMeAl]

From the folks that brought you Fast Pass, Big Sky has just launched their new "Come Don't Ski" campaign. The new policy at the tram is if it's walk-on at 2:30, they shut it down. I don't know about you guys, but I always thought afternoon walk-ons were pretty sweet. I talked to Neil last night and he confirmed it all. He said it could get reversed if enough people express discontent to him at welisten@bigskyresort. I apologize for the lack of stoke in this post.

[Norseman]

^That's bullshit. To save money? So they can go home an hour earlier?

To whom does that email address belong? I'd like to complain from a thousand miles away.

[CallMeAl]

^That's bullshit. To save money? So they can go home an hour earlier?

To whom does that email address belong? I'd like to complain from a thousand miles away.

It's Neil Johnson, head of Guest Services. He's a good dude, which is why I directed my bitching towards him last night. He told me that pissed off e-mails addressed to him are the best tools he can bring to the table. Please drop him a line!

[jackson.bodtker]

Some opening week stoke at Bridger! Keep the snow coming!

[Bobcat Sig]

Refills all day? Yes please. More to come, it seems. I dig.

I have some Moonlight 2-for-1s I need to burn before I leave for Christmas. PM if you want to schralp the radgnar tomorrow.

[Scree Shredder]

Big Sky Stoke

[Pancakes]

I bet you guys at Big Sky were really happy to finally get a taste of what it's like to ski at Bridger!

[Scree Shredder]

I bet you guys at Big Sky were really happy to finally get a taste of what it's like to ski at Bridger!

Not sure what you mean I didn't have to hike once to short tracked out runs.

[Climber Joe]

I bet you guys at Big Sky were really happy to finally get a taste of what it's like to ski at Bridger!

yes we were! and we really appreciate it when the pow is still there 4-5 days later!

[Bunion 2020]

For those asking about the N. Summit snowfield;

We did our first control today. The 1st shot released a slide, 1-2' of new storm snow. It ran over the cliffs at the bottom of the snowfield and when it hit direct it took the entire path out to the ground.

The reports from the control team are that this wasn't tragic and the next storm should repair the damage.

Stay tuned.

Bridger? isn't that the little town hill North of Bozeman?

[2FUNKY]

Big Sky Stoke

Cool vid. I so hate not having that mountain in my back yard anymore. What a sick Dec.

[2FUNKY]

I bet you guys at Big Sky were really happy to finally get a taste of what it's like to ski at Bridger!

Not sure what you mean I didn't have to hike once to short tracked out runs.

^Boom

5678

[CallMeAl]

For those asking about the N. Summit snowfield;

We did our first control today. The 1st shot released a slide, 1-2' of new storm snow. It ran over the cliffs at the bottom of the snowfield and when it hit direct it took the entire path out to the ground.

The reports from the control team are that this wasn't tragic and the next storm should repair the damage.

Stay tuned.

Bridger? isn't that the little town hill North of Bozeman?

Nice. Both patrols are doing a great job at opening shit in these conditions.

[Bobcat Sig]

For those asking about the N. Summit snowfield;

We did our first control today. The 1st shot released a slide, 1-2' of new storm snow. It ran over the cliffs at the bottom of the snowfield and when it hit direct it took the entire path out to the ground.

The reports from the control team are that this wasn't tragic and the next storm should repair the damage.

Stay tuned.

Bridger? isn't that the little town hill North of Bozeman?

Heard those guys going nuts yesterday. Sounded like bombs over Baghdad up there.

Oh yah, Moonlight was choice yesterday; a ghost town and stashes to be had until the end of the day.

And really, we as SW Montana skiers aren't special enough to need two threads for three areas, plus the backcountry. Let's all play nice, shall we?

[yeahman]

From the folks that brought you Fast Pass, Big Sky has just launched their new "Come Don't Ski" campaign. The new policy at the tram is if it's walk-on at 2:30, they shut it down. I don't know about you guys, but I always thought afternoon walk-ons were pretty sweet. I talked to Neil last night and he confirmed it all. He said it could get reversed if enough people express discontent to him at welisten@bigskyresort. I apologize for the lack of stoke in this post.

According to guest services, fast pass is no longer. Maybe you knew that. I found out when I was trying to pick one up!

If Big Sky is wondering why it's so empty these days, even for early season, they might consider the fact that they've priced themselves out of the day-tripper family market by charging $50 a day for kids age 6-10 (new this year). Here are the relative costs for a family of 4 to ski one day:

Discovery: $120
Bridger: $132
Big Sky: $240 (and that assumes the parents have Frequent Ski cards!)

Seriously, what family with kids age 6-10 is going to go to day-trip to Big Sky now and pay an extra $100+ for the kids to ski blue runs? True, the kids ski free if you stay in Boyne lodging, but this policy of charging day trippers' for their kids to ski hurts local Montana families who want to ski Big Sky but don't always stay on the mountain. The other ski areas do charge for kids ages 6-10, that is true, but their tickets are far less expensive in the first place. Kids skiing free at Big Sky used to make up for the high cost of adult tickets. Not any more, though.

Also heard yesterday they are planning to close Dakota lift during the week to save money. Management wanted to close Dakota AND Shedhorn but got rebuffed by employees who were sticking up for passholders.

I'll email this feedback to Neil Johnson like you suggest. They must listen a little bit if they got rid of fast pass (I assume because of all the grousing).

[Bobcat Sig]

According to guest services, fast pass is no longer. Maybe you knew that. I found out when I was trying to pick one up!

If Big Sky is wondering why it's so empty these days, even for early season, they might consider the fact that they've priced themselves out of the day-tripper family market by charging $50 a day for kids age 6-10 (new this year). Here are the relative costs for a family of 4 to ski one day:

Discovery: $120
Bridger: $132
Big Sky: $240 (and that assumes the parents have Frequent Ski cards!)

Seriously, what family with kids age 6-10 is going to go to day-trip to Big Sky now and pay an extra $100+ for the kids to ski blue runs? True, the kids ski free if you stay in Boyne lodging, but this policy of charging day trippers' for their kids to ski hurts local Montana families who want to ski Big Sky but don't always stay on the mountain. The other ski areas do charge for kids ages 6-10, that is true, but their tickets are far less expensive in the first place. Kids skiing free at Big Sky used to make up for the high cost of adult tickets. Not any more, though.

Also heard yesterday they are planning to close Dakota lift during the week to save money. Management wanted to close Dakota AND Shedhorn but got rebuffed by employees who were sticking up for passholders.

I'll email this feedback to Neil Johnson like you suggest. They must listen a little bit if they got rid of fast pass (I assume because of all the grousing).

Oh Boyne ... if any of that holds true, especially the part about Dakota and Shedhorn, that's no bueno. I know the lift prices for the wee ones has been on the rise. $50 is a load of shit for a youth price.

I had the pleasure of riding the lift with one of Big Sky's group sales managers two years ago. For the life of her, she could not grasp the loss-leader concept when it came to locals. In her mind, they'd rather land a family to stay and ski for a week then to have a local put in 20 - 30 days per season with all the meals and booze factored in. Now, while I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm not sure that pencils out the way she or Boyne thinks it does. I even went on to explain that with reduced lift prices for locals (a la Colorado's many options), you get me to the hill and I'll buy more food, more booze and even a night's lodging with too much booze. I'll also do this every single weekend. And this in a region where your'e competing against Bridger, Moonlight (all of which are less than hour's drive), Jackson and Targhee (about a 4 hour drive) and the lot of Utah (six or seven hours drive). Still, she couldn't grasp the concept. It's a shame, really...

[tone capone]

Most ski "resorts" just want to have as customers people who drop coin on everything, including real estate. If you aren't buying real estate and spending money on every product and service available, you are just seen as a waste of space. See new proposed tram policy for example. It's not about "locals" or passholders or skiing, it's about real estate, lodging, massages, lessons, overpriced food and booze, etc. They are running at a loss if all they can sell you on is skiing.

That's fine though, it's their business, they can run it however they want. Big Sky wants to be Vail North and all that entails, great for them. As long as they have the 49$ frequency card I'll buy it, works for me. It's pretty cool to have the options we do here though. Moonlight is certainly a different kind of "resort" model and Bridger will hopefully always be Bridger.

[Harry]

Management wanted to close Dakota AND Shedhorn but got rebuffed by employees who were sticking up for passholders.

I really doubt that closing Shedhorn lift has been discussed. It would mean closing Liberty Bowl too. (edit: maybe I'm wrong, can you do Hard Left and make it to Middle Road ? I guess you could...)

As far as Dakota closing midweek, I can see that happening. That is my favorite part of the mountain, mainly because no one else is over there. I can see the business reason for closing it, but I hope it does not happen.

My Big Sky dream: an Upper Dakota lift, from the current top of Dakota up to the Yeti Traverse. Suppossedly this was being seriously discussed during the 20004-2006 boom years.

[OverTurn]

I highly doubt they'll close the Dakota terrain after putting so much work into it this summer. Also, although you can get back from Liberty Bowl w/out Shedhorn, I highly doubt they'd close that too.

What you guys have to realize is that Big Sky doesn't make money from passholders the way they do from overnight guests staying in Boyne lodging. They're absolutely concerned with the bottom line and they're answering to people who don't care about locals at all because they're not from MT.

And, as someone with perspective on the patrol side of things, I can understand not wanting to operate on walk-on days. So much terrain closing at the end of the day (the entire Lone Peak side of the hill except Challenger) relies on closing the summit that it makes way more than just summit staff be on the hill late. And a good number of them have been there since quite early in the morning doing control work. So it comes off as a little selfish when you complain about staff not wanting to work an extra hour for the benefit of a few skiers on a wall-on afternoon. I don't quite know the justification for this decision though, fully, and it is a plan, not necessarily protocol yet.

And Upper Dakota lift? How often would that spin in the wind?

[Norseman]

And, as someone with perspective on the patrol side of things, I can understand not wanting to operate on walk-on days. So much terrain closing at the end of the day (the entire Lone Peak side of the hill except Challenger) relies on closing the summit that it makes way more than just summit staff be on the hill late. And a good number of them have been there since quite early in the morning doing control work. So it comes off as a little selfish when you complain about staff not wanting to work an extra hour for the benefit of a few skiers on a wall-on afternoon. I don't quite know the justification for this decision though, fully, and it is a plan, not necessarily protocol yet.

This get under my skin a little.

It's the patrollers job to stay on the hill till the job is finished, which ought to accomodate the published hours of operation, conditions permitting. It's not "working an extra half hour", it's working until the normal quitting time. Shutting things down early because it's a quiet day is an absurd display of laziness. Let the skiers ski! The absolute best part of skiing Big Sky is ripping walk-on tram laps (the only situation where Big Sky can compete with other resorts in the area, bang-for-buck-skiing-wise, IMHO)

You make it sound like the patrollers are being tortured up there or something. It's a fucking job. Sometimes jobs are difficult, which is why we get paid to perform them.

Mmmm, I got myself all worked up. Sorry for the vent. I hate the corporate take on skiing. The Boyne vibe is readily apparent out here at Crystal. Show some more powder photos!

[OverTurn]

No, believe me, I understand that too. Just trying to provide some perspective from a non-corporate POV on the decision. I'm not saying I support it at all. I don't. The real, corporate reason may be closer to paying people 1/2 hour less or something when there's little paying skier justification.

[Scree Shredder]

No big deal, let some powder reserves build up over by Dakota. I usually go there for the good snow not the terrain anyway. I'm pretty sure this is only going to be during the slow part of the early season anyway, not a season long policy. To clarify the 2:30 tram shut down thing, it sounds like they are just trying to have a consistent cut off time for the tram line and eliminate the grey area of closing time being the last car load or when you got in line. So the policy is if you are in line by 2:30 you get to ride up. I heard from a reliable source in on the decision process that the time will be bumped back to 3:00 in a few weeks, so really this would mean even later tram loads than before. So if it's an hour wait at 3:00 you may not be dropping in til 4:00. So really that would be even worse for patrol. Looks like they might be sweeping bavaria with head lamps at 5:00 on some days. So really this could cost them more money in the end. Love how everyone loves to find the negative side and bitch about it. If we were on some sort of non-profit heady forest service lease program instead of owned by a larger corporation I can guarantee people would bitch a lot less about policies. Once they move it to 3:00 this means nothing but more riding and the only ones getting screwed are patrol. Wahh wahh wahh fuck the corp. Oh ya and fuck an upper Dakota lift too. Can't even imagine what a shit show the yeti would be.

[Norseman]

Look man, I'm sorry for coming across as bitching. The other side of the story, about the cutoff time being pushed back after a while, was not presented here earlier... that makes the deal more balanced. I understand wanting to establish a better cutoff time and it makes sense.

As for the big corp BS, I don't really give a shit who owns the place, but as has been pointed out already on this page, it's an unfortunate spin on marketing that the big guys usually take, which places the actual skiing down on the list of products presented to the consumer. That sucks.

More skiing = thumbs up
Less skiing = thumbs down

I genuinely dig Big Sky and skied there for many years. I get upset at the thought of some limp-dick policy from on high getting in the way of it being a kickass place to ski.

[tone capone]

No big deal, let some powder reserves build up over by Dakota. I usually go there for the good snow not the terrain anyway.

Oh ya and fuck an upper Dakota lift too. Can't even imagine what a shit show the yeti would be.

What they really SHOULD do for the sake of the skiing is take down the tram and make everyone hike to the top of Lone Peak from the triple. Isn't it like 99 in tram years anyways? Now that would be progress!

[yeahman]

I had the pleasure of riding the lift with one of Big Sky's group sales managers two years ago. For the life of her, she could not grasp the loss-leader concept when it came to locals. In her mind, they'd rather land a family to stay and ski for a week then to have a local put in 20 - 30 days per season with all the meals and booze factored in. Now, while I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm not sure that pencils out the way she or Boyne thinks it does. I even went on to explain that with reduced lift prices for locals (a la Colorado's many options), you get me to the hill and I'll buy more food, more booze and even a night's lodging with too much booze. I'll also do this every single weekend. And this in a region where your'e competing against Bridger, Moonlight (all of which are less than hour's drive), Jackson and Targhee (about a 4 hour drive) and the lot of Utah (six or seven hours drive). Still, she couldn't grasp the concept. It's a shame, really...

This is exactly what I'm saying--I want Boyne to succeed. I want Big Sky to be successful and make money because I love the place. I just think they are accomplishing the opposite by charging $50 for kids 6-10 because they are going to lose a lot of local family business from Bozeman, it would seem to me. It doesn't even really affect me because I live in Helena--it's a 2.5 hour drive and I don't bring my kids for a day, only overnight. I guess it affects me a little because now we're pretty much roped into the Huntley (or Whitewater...). Can't take advantage of a cheap condo we have access to--or even stay at The Lodge, which is a nice non-Boyne place on the hill--because if we do we're paying an extra $100 a day for the kids to ski. Anyway...I'm not normally one to bitch about ski area policies. They are in a tough business. I just honestly think they are hurting themselves with this one. Charge $20 for a kid if you have to, but $50 is too much IMO.