What's the number?

[4matic]

Careful, 4matic will be here soon to tell you you are a fucking moron if you even entertain the idea of having a second place, or god forbid, renting it to cover some costs. Like parking cash in an ETF doesn't have risk also. Stocks can go to zero, so can bonds, but I've yet to see a piece of real estate be worth nothing, ever.

So much anger and angst. Must be the cold. Ski condo is still a questionable investment but I am ok as a luxury purchase.

[Ted Striker]

@benny

Of course.

Most people can keep all the balls in the air. Others drop a ball and end up in bankruptcy, but are still able to work.

But the flip side of that coin: your house is being auctioned off on the courthouse steps, is also still happening.

[SumJongGuy]

Be sure to have enough set aside to support your senile parents who can't remember who you are and need 24/7 nursing home fully assisted living.... Then when they finally pass in their mid 90s, and their medical bills have bankrupted you, you can go move in with your own kids.

[El Chupacabra]

Now hold on. Less than nothing? You'd have to pay somebody to take it? Other than superfund sites I can't think of anyplace that fit the bill. Even the most barren block in Detroit has value, it's just not much.

What about the old houses in rural Italy where the government will pay you to move there? (so long as you maintain it)

[Benny Profane]

They aren't kicking in anything, just selling you the house for a buck. But, hoo boy, the renovation.

[dunfree]

Carrying costs and inherent value are not the same thing.

inherent value is imaginary. Just ask the guy down the road from me that’s been trying to sell a $600k home for 5 years

carrying costs are real

[SumJongGuy]

Toxic Assets..

[Benny Profane]

inherent value is imaginary. Just ask the guy down the road from me that’s been trying to sell a $600k home for 5 years

carrying costs are real

That's not a 600,000 home. Maybe 500 or 400, but not 600.

[neufox47]

This season I've been regretting one thing I never did. Hindsight, sure, but, listen up, kiddies. If you want to ski until you die (which you probably won't, but, we won't go there now), buy yourself a condo somewhere you like to ski, and consider it retirement savings. Hell, AirB&B it and never use it, but, you'll be really happy it's there when you get old.

What’s stopping you Benny? Sure you may not be able to do slope side Summit County, Tahoe, Jackson, etc but I bet you could find a 1br by a really solid smaller ski resort for not too much.

Currently trying to convince my Dad to hold off on taking SS until 70. He was a max contributor for 30 years and is in very good health, no meds, low BP, healthy weight, etc. My mom didn’t pay a lot in and she took it early, but will elect for his as a spouse. I keep putting numbers out there to illustrate how much more he will likely get over the course of his life but it just isn’t registering. He keeps saying “I want my money when I can enjoy it”. I keep coming back to the point that the ROI from waiting 4 years is massive and way better than I can see them getting from any non-clairvoyant investment. He has a union pension, and savings / investments. I’m down to pitching that he withdraws the amount he’d get from taking SS from investments for the next 4 years.

[Benny Profane]

Eight years is a much longer time between 62 to 70 than it is just ten years earlier in one's fifties. A lot of us are healthier and live longer these days, but they haven't slowed aging and cured cancer yet. I've never heard an old person advocate for that "wait for max SS" thing, just younger number crunchers, and politicians who don't want the fund drained. Besides, you're forgetting to factor in all the money your father will receive over those eight years, and how long it will take after age 70 to make up for the "loss" of that cash. Quick guess is that you're not into the black until age 78 or so. Won't be doing a whole lot of skiing then, if the reaper hasn't visited yet.

[Mr. Mike]

Eight years is a much longer time between 62 to 70 than it is just ten years earlier in one's fifties. A lot of us are healthier and live longer these days, but they haven't slowed aging and cured cancer yet. I've never heard an old person advocate for that "wait for max SS" thing, just younger number crunchers, and politicians who don't want the fund drained. Besides, you're forgetting to factor in all the money your father will receive over those eight years, and how long it will take after age 70 to make up for the "loss" of that cash. Quick guess is that you're not into the black until age 78 or so. Won't be doing a whole lot of skiing then, if the reaper hasn't visited yet.

sounds like the poster's dad is evaluating 66 vs. 70. This article http://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/13/those...isleading.html puts the breakeven on that analysis at between 82 and 83.

[Benny Profane]

Hmmm......"actuarial neutrality", yeah, that's the way to put it.

[Benny Profane]

What’s stopping you Benny? Sure you may not be able to do slope side Summit County, Tahoe, Jackson, etc but I bet you could find a 1br by a really solid smaller ski resort for not too much.

This may sound morbid, but, if one is shopping for a home that may be their last, an important consideration is the ambulance ride. Like, calculate how long it will take an ambulance to get to you, and then back to an ER at a hospital. Really important during a cardiac event or accident involving blood loss. Visited my girlfriend's brother's home in WV a few days before Xmas. These people have money, but they decided to build a big home in a golf course community in WV across the border from Maryland for some reason. They dont even play golf. Dont start. Anyway, it takes maybe ten minutes along windy roads within the community just to get up to their house, and that community is maybe at least a half hour to a hospital, and maybe as much to an ambulance. She's totally out of shape and getting a serious back operation soon, and I bit my tongue about the therapy needed, probably daily, that is most likely an hour drive. She's not going to do it anyway. It's sad to watch. What seemed to be a really cool place to live when they were 55 won't be soon.
Even Summit County is going to present challenges if you're old and sick, although they have excellent trauma care there. A "small" ski area? I dont know. Good luck.

Besides, I road bike a lot, keeps me alive and fit. Shitty road riding out west.

[El Chupacabra]

Currently trying to convince my Dad to hold off on taking SS until 70. He was a max contributor for 30 years and is in very good health, no meds, low BP, healthy weight, etc. My mom didn’t pay a lot in and she took it early, but will elect for his as a spouse. I keep putting numbers out there to illustrate how much more he will likely get over the course of his life but it just isn’t registering. He keeps saying “I want my money when I can enjoy it”. I keep coming back to the point that the ROI from waiting 4 years is massive and way better than I can see them getting from any non-clairvoyant investment. He has a union pension, and savings / investments. I’m down to pitching that he withdraws the amount he’d get from taking SS from investments for the next 4 years.

SS is supposed to be "actuarially neutral," in that if you die at the average age (82 or something) then it's equal no matter where you start collecting. If Dad doesn't need the SS payments, and if his health and family history of health suggest he'll live longer than the average age, then he will do better if he waits. For example, if everyone in his family lives to 90, he comes out way ahead if he delays SS to 70. SS recipients increase their payments by about 8% per year, for each year they delay starting benefits, and that become locked in for the remainder of all payments. There's no investment that guarantees that return.

Whether and how SS vs other retirement income is taxed are also factors to consider (long term capital gains rate for ordinary investments, whether SS taxed as ordinary income or exempt, untaxed withdrawals from IRA, etc - this will vary, and you'll want to structure withdrawals from different sources for maximum tax advantages).

Estate planning can be a factor too- if investments/ savings are spent down in order to delay SS, then those funds cannot be left to heirs. ("I'm going to spend the government's money and not mine, and leave mine to you in my will")

I expect that for many people, they take SS as soon as possible because they don't have any other source of money, or not enough other source.

[iceman]

If you can’t sell it, it has no value and is costing you money. Lots of shithole flyover country like that. Family has property like that, just chewing up cash in tax payments. ?

Why would you pay the taxes on something that has no value to you? Just stop paying and soon enough you won't own it any more. If someone owes money on a loan for worthless property I feel bad for them but again, not paying it is an option although it might lead to other consequences like requiring bankruptcy.

you buy a home in Detroit for $1 and how much do you pay in taxes and upkeep

You buy that home knowing that it needs renovation and will cost tax dollars. The calculation would be, the cost of renovation and upkeep. plus expected taxes, plus $1.00 is the expected cost. If you don't think can make money on that, don't spend the dollar. If you do think you can make money or provide something else you want (i.e. shelter, etc.), it has at least perceived value to you.

edit: trying to be intelligible

[neufox47]

sounds like the poster's dad is evaluating 66 vs. 70. This article http://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/13/those...isleading.html puts the breakeven on that analysis at between 82 and 83.

Yea, that is the dilemma. He is turning 66 in 2020. His Dad lived to 88 and wasn’t in good shape. His Mom only to 78 due to early onset dimentia / Alzheimer’s. My Mom is also in good health, although a breast cancer survivor (almost 15 years cancer free). I’d say the odds of both making it past 82 is much better than 50/50. Both did a 19 mile 3k vert up hike at altitude last year without really training specifically for it. Both exercise and eat fairly well, and don’t drink / never smoked.

[neufox47]

This may sound morbid, but, if one is shopping for a home that may be their last, an important consideration is the ambulance ride. Like, calculate how long it will take an ambulance to get to you, and then back to an ER at a hospital. Really important during a cardiac event or accident involving blood loss. Visited my girlfriend's brother's home in WV a few days before Xmas. These people have money, but they decided to build a big home in a golf course community in WV across the border from Maryland for some reason. They dont even play golf. Dont start. Anyway, it takes maybe ten minutes along windy roads within the community just to get up to their house, and that community is maybe at least a half hour to a hospital, and maybe as much to an ambulance. She's totally out of shape and getting a serious back operation soon, and I bit my tongue about the therapy needed, probably daily, that is most likely an hour drive. She's not going to do it anyway. It's sad to watch. What seemed to be a really cool place to live when they were 55 won't be soon.
Even Summit County is going to present challenges if you're old and sick, although they have excellent trauma care there. A "small" ski area? I dont know. Good luck.

Besides, I road bike a lot, keeps me alive and fit. Shitty road riding out west.

I meant what about swinging a cheap condo near a ski area that you can Airbnb when you aren’t at it? Not saying that is where you should live full time or die at, but to be near skiing part time. Rent it for the holidays and in the summer and you can probably come close to break even. How much do you currently spend on lodging to ski? How much of that would go away if you had a place. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s too late for you.

[skaredshtles]

Estate planning can be a factor too- if investments/ savings are spent down in order to delay SS, then those funds cannot be left to heirs. ("I'm going to spend the government's money and not mine, and leave mine to you in my will")

Little leaches have already gotten enough. I plan to die penniless.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[El Chupacabra]

Little leaches have already gotten enough. I plan to die penniless.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Just saying that for some people, it is a factor in planning retirement spending and use of SS.

Some people also gripe about the estate tax. I do not plan on being one of those people, but if somehow I end up being subject to it, it's a good problem to have.

[Benny Profane]

I meant what about swinging a cheap condo near a ski area that you can Airbnb when you aren’t at it? Not saying that is where you should live full time or die at, but to be near skiing part time. Rent it for the holidays and in the summer and you can probably come close to break even. How much do you currently spend on lodging to ski? How much of that would go away if you had a place. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s too late for you.

The only places that have a good summer business in rentals are way above my means, and that's why they're expensive.

Vermont is affordable , but, it's Vermont. It rained there yesterday. Third time in three weeks.

[old goat]

What’s stopping you Benny? Sure you may not be able to do slope side Summit County, Tahoe, Jackson, etc but I bet you could find a 1br by a really solid smaller ski resort for not too much.

Currently trying to convince my Dad to hold off on taking SS until 70. He was a max contributor for 30 years and is in very good health, no meds, low BP, healthy weight, etc. My mom didn’t pay a lot in and she took it early, but will elect for his as a spouse. I keep putting numbers out there to illustrate how much more he will likely get over the course of his life but it just isn’t registering. He keeps saying “I want my money when I can enjoy it”. I keep coming back to the point that the ROI from waiting 4 years is massive and way better than I can see them getting from any non-clairvoyant investment. He has a union pension, and savings / investments. I’m down to pitching that he withdraws the amount he’d get from taking SS from investments for the next 4 years.

I'm 69 and I can see where neufox's dad is coming from. When you start realizing that physical decline is accelerating, despite your best efforts you may decide that you'd better spend the money now while you still can, even if it means less in the long run. I had a couple of major health issues this year and our spending plummeted--a preview of what's to come. Of course it helps to be a retired doctor rather than a retired bus driver.

[plugboots]

Shitty road riding out west.

JFC, Bunny, give it a rest.

[Benny Profane]

Well, compared to the east, yeah.

[riser4]

The only places that have a good summer business in rentals are way above my means, and that's why they're expensive.

Vermont is affordable , but, it's Vermont. It rained there yesterday. Third time in three weeks.

That and we got dirt roads.

[Benny Profane]

I'm 69 and I can see where neufox's dad is coming from. When you start realizing that physical decline is accelerating, despite your best efforts you may decide that you'd better spend the money now while you still can, even if it means less in the long run. I had a couple of major health issues this year and our spending plummeted--a preview of what's to come. Of course it helps to be a retired doctor rather than a retired bus driver.

I'll bet that most of us have been disabled somewhat from ski injuries once or twice. I've had a taste of that with a knee injury and a foot thing a few years ago. It was a good lesson and warning to prepare for the future, when an accident or just wear and tear puts a big brake on your mobility. Just stairs become an obstacle. But, yeah, the upside is that you aren't spending much, unless you have a chronic disease and shitty or no insurance, but, everyone has decent insurance after age 65.