What's the number?

**Cono Este** · 10-27-2015, 07:44 PM

I just pray for good health now, the rest will take care of itself.

**XXX-er** · 10-27-2015, 08:58 PM

So how much do you need? Chris retired from being a code monkey at 42, every year shows up in town for the folk fest season, buddy is pleasant to converse with, a smart guy, always neat, well spoken, no vices no wierdness other than being VERY frugal. He owns one pair of pants, 2 shirts, 1 plate, 1 spoon, 1 fork, 1 cup (you get the idea) no car, maybe a cheap bike, rents accommodation and takes off somewhere warm before he needs a winter jacket

the number depends ... on how much you need

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2015, 09:05 PM

2m is a good number. Should be able to draw at least 100k/year off of that without too much trouble and leave it behind for the progeny.

**wooley12** · 10-27-2015, 10:09 PM

Well there you go. For me, and I'm not you and you're not me and that's cool. I'm thinking that it's wanting what you have, not having what you want.

**GeezerSteve** · 10-27-2015, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by wooley12

I'm thinking that it's wanting what you have, not having what you want.

Agreed. That's my point. Keys to happiness #1 and #2 are low expectations and low overhead.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 10-27-2015, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by flowing alpy

haven't heard from this dude for awhile, wonder if 2large would still be enough.

2 large is $2000, I'd want more than that.

**XXX-er** · 10-28-2015, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Agreed. That's my point. Keys to happiness #1 and #2 are low expectations and low overhead.

I wonder if minimalists are more happy or maybe just less unhappy?

**iceman** · 10-28-2015, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

...the number depends ... on how much you need

Originally Posted by Big Steve

It's more about what you want than what you need.

This thread is almost 4 years old and that was obvious from the start. What I was hoping to do was use peoples' thoughts to help build a case to the wife that we already had enough to extract ourselves from the system. I was hoping to convince her to dial shit back, retrench, cut expenses and gtfo, but now it's abundantly clear that she'll never do that.

On the other hand it's also clear that if she retired I'd probably have to divorce her or kill her and I don't really want to do either of those right this minute (other minutes I feel differently), and she really doesn't care much what I do, so no number for us but if if this is prison it's a pretty damn nice prison.

**iceman** · 10-28-2015, 12:01 PM

There's a lot of people who can't envision life without the structure, challenges and quantifiable rewards of work. There's several of them who have posted in this thread, note the comments about not being able to envision sitting on the couch and so on. It has become apparent that my wife is one of them, although I wasn't really positive that was the case when I started the thread, I still thought she could channel her energy into things outside of working.

I however am definitely not one of those people.

**El Chupacabra** · 10-28-2015, 12:44 PM

"Retiring from" working fulltime does not need to mean sitting on the couch doing nothing. If that's all someone can envision as "retirement," then that person should keep working.

"Retiring to" activities that working fulltime does not permit is what I want. I have so many things I want to do, places to go, books to read, etc., that I just don't have time for now. I will not be bored, sitting on the couch, doing nothing. It's all about freedom.

**flatlander#2** · 10-28-2015, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

There's a lot of people who can't envision life without the structure, challenges and quantifiable rewards of work. There's several of them who have posted in this thread, note the comments about not being able to envision sitting on the couch and so on. It has become apparent that my wife is one of them, although I wasn't really positive that was the case when I started the thread, I still thought she could channel her energy into things outside of working.

I however am definitely not one of those people.

My father in law worked up to VP level at Northwest Airlines, took an early retirement package in mid 90's, went back to work 4 months later for an area college. He is now 77, has never had any hobbies at all, still pissed off he's retired. Has really turned into a miserable person to be around, always looking for things to fix. He has decided that he is going to pay for his 7 grandkids education. My poor MIL hits the white wine and clear booze on the reg to fix. My wife promises not to be that way. I told her if she is I will kick her old ass to the curb in a hot second.

**Buster Highmen** · 10-28-2015, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

One of my ex-law firm partners put it this way when he was enlightening his son about how to live the good life: Work is something that, if someone didn't pay you for it, you wouldn't do it. That's why they call it "work." Don't count on work as the means to fulfill your life aspirations because, if you do, you'll find yourself someday in the fucked up state where work is a surrogate for more rewarding avocational pursuits. So, find a way use your natural talents to make money so that someday you won't need to work (or, at least, can cut down to part time work) and thus can have more time to pursue your avocations. In shorthand: Work to live, don't live to work.

Nobody had to teach me that wisdom. I figured it out early in life via pursuing numerous avocations. But I saw, and still see, lots of people in my profession (law) who rely on work to fulfill themselves. I pity them.

Funny, but my old man was a physics professor. He worked long hours doing stuff he loved as well as grading papers, counseling students, reviewing papers, before doing administration stuff in order to earn more. But then he went back to doing physics, solved a longstanding problem in statistical mechanics and didn't stop working until he was 70.

He worked, but he loved his work. Now he's too old to do his research anymore. But I'm pretty sure that's a counterexample. One can enjoy work like one can enjoy a good climb up some peak.

As for me, I wasn't so focused and I fell into doing something I'm tired of now. It was fun for a while.

**Lindahl** · 10-28-2015, 01:35 PM

Even better if you find both. Work that you love and know how to kick it to the curb at 30-40hrs/week to enjoy some hobbies. Like with food, balance is good.

**iceman** · 10-28-2015, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

...I saw, and still see, lots of people in my profession (law) who rely on work to fulfill themselves. I pity them.

It's like pitying someone for being lefthanded or gay or some other thing they can't control I've concluded. Pity is not something they want or need.They just are that way. They're only unhappy when it stops, note flatlander's comment above. And if they can keep working, and want to, then where does pity come in?

In fact they probably pity an aimless fool like me but I sure as hell don't need anybody's pity either

**GeezerSteve** · 10-28-2015, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Work that you love and know how to kick it to the curb at 30-40hrs/week to enjoy some hobbies.

Work that I merely like @ 10 hours/week avg. is much better. Trust me on this.

**Buster Highmen** · 10-28-2015, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Nah. They're in that fucked up state because early in life they eschewed more enlightening pursuits in favor of work or, more likely, had kids and/or got buried in debt and thus had no choice but to do little more than work, eat and sleep.

Sounds like he went back to something that wasn't work to him, i.e., something he'd do even if someone weren't paying him to do it. Good on him. That's similar to post-career volunteer work or taking a big pay cut to do public service work.

The point is that one can get paid and absorbed by something one loves. Those people are kind of lucky and kind of tortured. I fail myself for not finding what I really wanted to do more longterm rather than claiming it can't be done.

**iceman** · 10-28-2015, 01:58 PM

The smug is strong with this one.

**Buster Highmen** · 10-28-2015, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

That's an old tired myth, not reality except for that 1 in 10,000 hugely lucky person, e.g., professional athlete or someone who actually makes a living in the arts. Other than those very rare situations, everyone I've met who claims to "love my work" is delusional and/or oblivious.

I should know better to avoid these discussions. People do not want to hear about the defense mechanisms that keep them going.

I grew up surrounded by scientists who loved what they did and got paid. A bunch of my friends are artists or musicians who may not make a lot, but they manage. I'm not a myth and neither are they.

But I do think some people won't take the responsibility for not finding what they really wanted to do and claim it's a myth to do so.

**GeezerSteve** · 10-28-2015, 02:09 PM

The Atlantic: Why ‘Do What You Love’ Is Pernicious Advice

Do What You Love And Other Lies about Success and Happiness

**Lindahl** · 10-28-2015, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Work that I merely like @ 10 hours/week avg. is much better. Trust me on this.

It'll be a few years before I can pull that off. Pretty young still. 25-30hrs, something I love and very little stress is just fine for me right now though. Can't imagine it much better. I guess if I had kids 10-15hrs would feel closer to right.

**Buster Highmen** · 10-28-2015, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

So, now you're calling me irresponsible? WTF? I found and developed a career that was a good fit for my talents, had sufficient rewards (to counter the stress) and allowed me to hit "the number" (which is what this thread is about). Had I required that my career be something I loved, I'd be broke because nobody is going to pay me to explore the wilderness or birdwatch or ski or do high routes. So, actually, I took the path of responsibility.

Look, you're claiming that mountain guides or ornithologists or anybody that loves what they do is a myth.

You're not taking responsibility for not choosing to do what you loved and trying to devalue those that did.

Insisting that either it's a myth or a lie if someone makes that claim is not taking responsibility for your own choices.

Sure, sometimes it's a lie, but lots of times it's not. Some people like to work and some people have the balls to go do what they wanted for a living and I think it's really cheap and scarce to claim that it's a myth.

If this is coming off like I've made the choice to do something I loved, nananananana, you're not reading this right. I'm not loving what I do now and I'd like to stop, but I can't.

At least I'll take responsibility for my choices rather than attempting to devalue the truth of those that make a choice to do what they love.

**Meadow Skipper** · 10-28-2015, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

On the other hand it's also clear that if she retired I'd probably have to divorce her or kill her and I don't really want to do either of those right this minute (other minutes I feel differently)...

Because you'd get twice the wife, but half the money.