Foolproof bc-instruction-kit

[joshbu]

Originally posted by AH
I'm sorry, but when I'm practicing with my beacon, I don't get anywhere near the stress I'd get in a true life/death situation.

Originally posted by fez
Practice is not especially stressful. Sometimes it can be made more so by getting a few teams together to find several buried transcievers and have a race. Its kind of like the difference between a scrimmage and a game. That practice gives you the skills to fall back on in time of trouble.

Other ideas:
-Try setting up more realistic searches. Use snow covered hills with features.

-Try having someone time your search and yell out the victim's survival rate every 2 minutes.

[AH]

Once again, I'm not doubting practice whatsoever, but, I think informational ergonomics can make a great deal of difference in these kind of situations.

For example. I went heliskiing this summer in NZ. The guides took us through a briefing, including a test-search by one of the group members. This took 10 minutes, everything included. Roo had a story about a guide in Chamonix explaining how to turn on the beacon and that was it..

That is not training, that is not getting a routine. BUT, these people also get into the BC. What if something happens to them? Just rely on the guides or give them something they might be able to use in case stuff goes bad?

In honestly believe that no-one in my group, unless previously trained, would have had any luck finding someone in an avalanche, thanks to that briefing.

For those situations, I believe, some sort of easy-to-follow checklist can do some good. It's gonna be hard enough trying to pull something like that of by remembering a 10 minute lecture in the morning, when everyone's stoked as hell to get up and after making a first run of perfect powder, heliskiing for the first time...


Btw, this is not a 'new' idea.. What makes a beacon a good beacon is the ease of use. Look at the Tracker : It doesn't replace training, but it sure as hell makes finding someone a bit easier..

[bad_roo]

True dat. On the arete at the top of the Midi the guide demonstrated to his group of English clients how to switch the beacon on. He then demonstrated how to switch it to search and then mimicked waving it from iside to side, all the while elaborating in French. Fkn masterclass.

[AH]

Aaah, found something...

Q. How can I make sure the product I am working on is easy to use?

A. First, determine who is going to be using your product - for example, the group's age and experience level. Determine what features are going to be used most often and what basic tasks people will perform with the product. Build a prototype of your product that allows people to perform the tasks - at least to some degree. Higher fidelity prototypes are better, but good feedback can be obtained from low fidelity prototypes.

Next, find some people who are like the ones who will be using your product and have them perform some typical tasks with the prototype. Observe the people to see what confused them, where they make mistakes or are inefficient. Then modify the prototype to reduce or eliminate these problems. Repeat this process until you have eliminated the problems.

[teledave]

Since I'm absolutely BC illiterate I've just been reading so far, but in AH's defense their are a lot of people that go into the BC with very minimal avy training. Think cat/heli tours, Silverton. What he is talking about could definitely be used as an aid for people that could be confronted by their first incident with only 10-30 minutes of training. Hopefully it wasn't the guide that got buried. I think AH is looking to help out situations that are unavoidably bad with regard to experienced vs. JONG party members.

(Or, maybe he's not and he's just an idiot leading others into the BC with no training and relying on his limited knowledge. I dunno.)

A point worth restating, the leader makes certain that all those not involved switch to receive mode, make sure that gets printed in bold capital letters.

[bad_roo]

Remember - WE ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE.

If you paused to sample every skier who came by you on, say, Tour du Charvet at Val d'Isere I'd estimate ten per cent would have beacons. Of that ten percent half would know how to work the beacon. So whilst it's fine for us to maintain a standpoint of adequate training etc, it aint the real world if that's how you think everybody conducts themselves.

[joshbu]

A couple 2cs...

1. Professional guides do not expect thier clients to save them in a rescue situation. That's why you don't get any instruction. If there is any real risk of a burial, guides go out in teams: with a back guide. That way, there is always 1 guide to save the other or any clients who get caught.

2. If I am participating in a trip (that doesn't have a pro guide leading it,) and someone doesn't have a beacon or any sort of reasonable training on how to use thier beacon, I'm bailing, period. I don't care if they have a step by step card. Nothing personal, just my life.

[AH]

What roo said...

[bad_roo]

Damn good discussion BTW.

Josh - Is that normal procedure? This guy was with nine clients and even if he's the shit at rescuing people I wouldn't fancy my odds there...

[fez]

I suppose, but again, in the case of Roo's example, if you have step by step instructions (set your beacon to reciever etc.) and put those instructions in the hands of people with out beacons then what?

I'm used to bc skiing in the Wasatch, JH, and Beartooth MT / Bozeman area. Most people are pretty aware of avy situations and are pretty well prepared. Hell in bounds at Bridger probably over half of all skiers on a powder day are carrying a beacon and shovel. Granted maybe half of them know how to use them, but the ones who dont know aren't usually heading out of bounds or doing any bc skiing and usually have enough knowledge to know how little knowledge they have.

I have seen areas for more avalanche education even in these areas though.

Once was skiing teton pass and while hiking south on a moderate avy danger day i witnessed a group of about a dozen Hispanics sledding in Avalanche bowl. they didnt name it that because they ran out of other names, but there were about 4 adults and 8 kids sledding terrain I would not have skied that day. Never crossed my mind that we could use bilingual avalanche education, and my complete lack of any ability to speak spanish made it impossible for me to explain the danger to them. I think any attempts to explain the dangers is definitely valid, just dont think its possible an instruction sheet in the field will do a bit of good.

[AH]

Originally posted by fez
I think any attempts to explain the dangers is definitely valid, just dont think its possible an instruction sheet in the field will do a bit of good.

I don't think you understand me correctly. My goal is not to create a bc-safety-plan, which one can use to travel safely in the bc. It's also not a learning tool, it's a mental help.

My only goal is to help people in a highly stressed situation. And you can be trained and know how to use your tranceiver and all, but if you freak out at the spot and lose it, that won't do shit for the victim. My idea is aimed towards those people. The ones that know how, but need a little help getting into action.

I know I for one don't know how the hell I would react, being the sole survivor of an avalanche. And if it turns out that a simple sheet would get me back on track, that (combined with training) could save lives. Just like the voice in the cockpit you hear when things go bad ("ALTITUDE!! ALTITUDE!!").. I don't think they put it in there for nothing...

[altagirl]

Regarding adequate practice beforehand and having cheat sheets on scene...

I totally agree that if you are going to be of use, you need to practice so it SHOULD come naturally when you're in an emergency. But you're always better off to have a reference just in case. When I was in the Army I trained Patriot missile operators. You train them and make them pass examinations where they're doing things fast enough they can't be relying on cheat sheets. But you always have them posted around the monitor just in case. (The Army is good for making cheat sheets for just about everything... doesn't excuse you from training and demonstrating proficiency, just provides a backup.)

Honestly it comes down to knowing yourself. It's like wearing a helmet or an avalung - if you think you're going to use it as an excuse to rationalize not practicing or acting irresponsibly, then it's a bad thing. If you're well practiced - adding extra safety measures (like the note card in case you panic and forget something) is an excellent idea.

[AH]

Altagirl, if possible, could you tell me what those cheat-sheets look like? It's quite possibly gone over a few itterations of usability-tests and a decent example to take a look at..

What are your likes/dislikes about them, are they easy to use, anything you would change, etc?

[joshbu]

Originally posted by bad_roo
Damn good discussion BTW.

Josh - Is that normal procedure? This guy was with nine clients and even if he's the shit at rescuing people I wouldn't fancy my odds there...

Well, in theory pro guides would never expose more than 1 person to avy danger at once.

Of course, as we saw in Revelstoke last year, that doesn't always happen.

The heli and cat operators are better about this becuase you only are going down. You can't very well tell people to skin 2000 ft one at a time.

AH: If there's anyone who knows about working under pressure, it's the US Army. I'm sure they've done many, many ergonomic studies on that very subject. So, that should be valuable input.

[AH]

Let's see how easy it is to get some information from the US Army, being the foreigner that I am

[altagirl]

Ha ha... The ones we used for Patriot stuff wouldn't do you any good - they were made to fit around a round computer monitor.

I'd say just print up what you want, cut it to fit the back of your beacon, laminate it (can be done with clear packing tape yourself or at Alphagraphics or Kinkos or something) and then tape it on to the back of your beacon (assuming your model doesn't have buttons on the back or something). That way it's not getting lost, wet... and you'd see it as soon as you pulled the beacon out.

[TomK]

AH,

I got a small 3x5 laminated card printed on both sides during my avy I class. It's got what you're looking for in both text and graphics.
I'll check tonight to see how you can get a copy.

[AH]

Cool.. can you scan it and mail it? (bart [at] skizone [dot] nl)

[SLCFreshies]

I agree with Altagirl--a reference card would be good, especially in a high-stress, but rare situation.

I know in ACLS situations there is usually an ALCS card on the crash cart with algorithms, medication dosages, etc. For your ACLS certification test, however, you obviously cannot refer to the these cards. It is not meant to be a replacement for learning the ACLS procedures. But they are best used just to jog someone's memory or give structure to such a high-stress situation. Plus, for some people the mere fact that they have a "cheat sheet" is comforting in and of itself, even if they don't use it.

[dude_le_skibum]

Originally posted by Beaver
You want a foolproof system? Don't be a fool and go out with gapers.

no, thats not true, you can go out with gapers, just don't go out in avy terrain and know what you are doing

[Lostinthetrees]

You are right-on asking and few have given you an answer. Too much fear mongering. I will discuss next post. Anyway, every EMT, Security Center, even in LAN Server Rooms you will find troubleshooting checklists and quick manuals to follow in for each type of emergency. Few can think of everything and few can think straight in a panic.

Here is and easy recipe for a waterproof and flexible 4 card set; double sided you have 8 procedures. Double the recipe and you have 16. I would reco only 1 procedure or task per card face... in bold and easy to comprehend.

- Use 3x5 index cards if your cpu printer will take them, or, use 8x11 and format to that size. You will get 4 - 3x5's on 1 - 8x11 lamination sheet. Put them back to back so you can get 8 instructions using 1 lamination sheet.
- Go to Kinko's. For about 1.35 they will put your 4 cards on 1 lam sheet. Then, use their paper cutter and cut them apart leaving 3/8 border.
- You can use their hole punch and now you can put them on a metal ring or, better yet, use a nylon cable tie.

You now have a set of cards, waterproof and flexible to put into your pack. By the way, make 2 sets so if you get trapped someone else has a set.

Fear mongering, set next post. LITT

[Lostinthetrees]

If you all felt that way then you would not get out on the road next morning and drive to whereever. More people are killed each day in car accidents then all season in BC. Go play tennis, it is flat ground, paved and a net between opponents.

He is asking for information, but getting slammed. Makes good reading and some catchy phrases, but it doesn't drive the fear out of the experience. It piles it on. We don't need more paved ground and golf courses. We need more people to appreciate BC and not fear it.

Listen, if no one is willing to show what BC/outside the ropes is about, then we may not have any in 50 years. Giving people a taste and exposure gives them an opportunity to come to our aid in the future to keep areas open and open more terrain. Perhaps some will try a couple times and say, to much work or not my thing and head back to the resort and halfpipes. But, others you touch will may see a light and follow that spark to classes and training and reading and then, helping others.

You have had training and have some experience from what I read. You know the risks and how to minimize them. You know these friends and can assess their strengths, weaknessess and stability and dependability.

You can find low risk terrain on a low risk day to expose them. You know if someone in the group is wanting to go climb 3,000 and ski chutes then leave him/her behind. You goal should be to safely expose people to BC and let them experience the peace and beauty. You know these trip(s) objective should not be to capture the high passes, ski powder in treeless bowls 24 hours after a snowfall, on a hot sunny southern slope with newcomers. So adjust the experience accordingly and go find some peace and beauty. LITT

[AH]

Thanks for the help.. (btw, tomk, thanks for the example card, it looks like my idea, but I think it could be more clear)

I've mailed with Jim Conway on this issue and he's very enthousiastic about the idea. I think we'll come up with something the next couple of weeks for preliminary testing..