Foolproof bc-instruction-kit

[AH]

Ok, here's the deal, when travelling in the BC with different partners, I have this habbit of providing my partners with the right gear (no pieps, here's my spare one. what? no shovel, there you go), but I still don't really feel safe going out with people who obviously aren't prepared.

How the hell does one know how to use a tranceiver if they didn't bring one in the first place??

That's why I'd like to create some sort of foolproof instruction kit for my partners. Just a sealed a4-paper with a few simple rules for the BC. What to do in case of an accident, how to use the tranceiver, how to search, etc, etc.

This is where you guys come in.. As i'm not quite that experienced in the BC myself (don't have experience with different tranceivers, just the f1), i would like your help in creating a sheet, that at least covers the basics of bc-travel, in case shit hits the fan. The kind of shit a guide takes you through before you head off..

It needn't be complete and in detail (remember that is going to be used in a high-stress-situation by someone inexperienced) : I'm thinking about a simple checklist, with pictures, a simple 'how-to-search' with symbols and short texts (real short). Anything that could help my partner save MY ass or at least puts him in a position to find me....

Any opinions, suggestions, etc?

[UTdave]

The real question is why at all are YOU trusting YOUR rescue to people who have no idea what they're doing? The least you should do with these people is practice with the transceiver several times before it is needed. I personally wouldn't travel in the backcountry with people as inexperienced as you describe.

[Woodsy]

Originally posted by UTdave
The real question is why at all are YOU trusting YOUR rescue to people who have no idea what they're doing? The least you should do with these people is practice with the transceiver several times before it is needed. I personally wouldn't travel in the backcountry with people as inexperienced as you describe.

very wise for one so young. long you will live.

[Mountain Junkie]

I agree with UTDave. When the shit hits the fan, you want people acting on training and experience, not trying to figure out what to do in the first place. If you do end up completely buried, the clocks ticking. I do think a checklist type sheet might be valuable to keep someone level headed, but if they are LEARNING from this sheet, you can probably kiss your ass goodbye.

[AH]

Originally posted by UTdave
The real question is why at all are YOU trusting YOUR rescue to people who have no idea what they're doing? The least you should do with these people is practice with the transceiver several times before it is needed. I personally wouldn't travel in the backcountry with people as inexperienced as you describe.

That's not the point. I will practice with them before we go out. The thing is, however, in stressful situations like avalanches, people tend to forget stuff real fast. I'm trying to create some sort of handle for people in those situations, so that they calm down and do what needs to be done. This doesn't replace training, it just helps em focus better and not panic.

Why do you think they have checklists on airplanes? It's not like the guys are inexperienced...

[CaddyDaddy77]

If caught in an Avalanche:

Shout so your group knows you need help.
Try to discard equipment: skis, poles, board.
Swim to stay on the surface. Work your way to the side.
As the Avalanche Slows:
Fight to reach the surface.
Try to get a hand above the surface so that it can be seen.
Make an air space in front of your face with your other arm.
Try to relax to conserve energy
Searching for a Victim: The most experienced person should:
Take a moment to organize the search party.
Consider the possibility of another avalanche before attempting a rescue. Set an escape route and post a lookout if necessary.
Mark the last seen point of the victim(s).
Search with Beacons:
Ensure all rescuers' beacons are switched to receive.
Spread out at 30 meter intervals to cover the debris.
Look for surface cues: a hand, hat, glove, etc.
Don't litter the slope with rescuers' belongings.
Search around and downhill for any clues.
When a signal is picked up assign one or two to locate it while the others continue the search.
Pinpoint the signal to a small radius, then probe to find the victim.
Without removing the probe, quickly dig out the victim.
Turn the victim's beacon to receive if others are still buried.
Searching Without Beacons:
Have all rescuers vigorously search for surface clues.
Probe the most likely areas: around clues, in line below the last seen point; around trees, rocks. etc.
Concentrate on the last few meters of the debris and other areas of deposition.
After a thorough search by random probing, set up an organized probe line. Start at the base of the debris and work your way up the most likely trajectory.
There is a 60% chance of finding someone with a probe line. If unsuccessful, cover the area again.
Practice your rescue plan before you need it. Over 50% of people completely buried in avalanches do not survive after 20 minutes. You do not have time to go for help. YOU ARE THE HELP.

For up to date avalanche information, please see http://www.avalanche.ca/snow/



I think it's not a bad idea, but the reason why you do training again and again is so that in emergency you do not have to think about your actions, they should come second-hand.

Education, not note cards.

[AH]

Point well taken, but can you vouch for other men's experience... I know I can't.. I'd rather have it that someone experienced had a notecard and didn't need it than someone inexperienced that doesn't have one at all and freaks out at the spot..

[CaddyDaddy77]

Good point, the exact reason that I have ski buddies who are in-bound friends and those who are also out-of-bounds friends. I know that no matter how much some of them want to go, I won't take them to most places, it's for my own personal safety, the groups, and their owns.

I like your idea, it's never bad to have a reminder. You might see if some of the Heli- or cat operations have a organized list that they read their clients. I know our local one does, but not something that is in public view.

[bad_roo]

Originally posted by CaddyDaddy77
If caught in an Avalanche:

Shout so your group knows you need help.
Try to discard equipment: skis, poles, board.
Swim to stay on the surface. Work your way to the side.
As the Avalanche Slows:
Fight to reach the surface.
Try to get a hand above the surface so that it can be seen.
Make an air space in front of your face with your other arm.
Try to relax to conserve energy
Searching for a Victim: The most experienced person should:
Take a moment to organize the search party.
Consider the possibility of another avalanche before attempting a rescue. Set an escape route and post a lookout if necessary.
Mark the last seen point of the victim(s).
Search with Beacons:
Ensure all rescuers' beacons are switched to receive.
Spread out at 30 meter intervals to cover the debris.
Look for surface cues: a hand, hat, glove, etc.
Don't litter the slope with rescuers' belongings.
Search around and downhill for any clues.
When a signal is picked up assign one or two to locate it while the others continue the search.
Pinpoint the signal to a small radius, then probe to find the victim.
Without removing the probe, quickly dig out the victim.
Turn the victim's beacon to receive if others are still buried.
Searching Without Beacons:
Have all rescuers vigorously search for surface clues.
Probe the most likely areas: around clues, in line below the last seen point; around trees, rocks. etc.
Concentrate on the last few meters of the debris and other areas of deposition.
After a thorough search by random probing, set up an organized probe line. Start at the base of the debris and work your way up the most likely trajectory.
There is a 60% chance of finding someone with a probe line. If unsuccessful, cover the area again.
Practice your rescue plan before you need it. Over 50% of people completely buried in avalanches do not survive after 20 minutes. You do not have time to go for help. YOU ARE THE HELP.

I got all of that right except switch the first victim's beacon off transmit. That error cost us three minutes by which time victim 2 was dead. Could it have been prevented if our lookout guy had consulted a crib card? Quite possibly. [/hypothetical situation]

[CaddyDaddy77]

I'm not quite following you their, Roo. The changing of the beacon is to eliminate additional signals, resulting in a faster retrivial of the second victim.

[altagirl]

Not a bad idea. Tape it to the back of your beacon or something. Obviously people need to learn to use equipment first, but it's always good to have a reference card in case someone is freaking out too much to think.

[altagirl]

Originally posted by CaddyDaddy77
I'm not quite following you their, Roo. The changing of the beacon is to eliminate additional signals, resulting in a faster retrivial of the second victim.

Reread Roo's statement. It makes sense and you're saying the same thing.

[AH]

I think everyone should understand that people under stress make mistakes. My goal is to eliminate those mistakes just like the one roo described as much as possible.

One of the biggest problems with such a card is : "How do you get it foolproof?" It needs to be as intuitive as possible.

How can you make sure that, even under high-stress-circumstances, it get's read properly and things get carried out flawless. (otherwise, what would be the point). Mind you, I think this is more of a psychological/usability question and not even so much skiing related.

If anyone were to find articles about the above, I'd like to see em here.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Altagirl, thanks for the heads up, now I follow.

AH, you might try to condense something like this, lengthy, but good.

http://www.mra.org/Avalanche_R2002.pdf

[altagirl]

I had to read it twice too...

[AH]

thx, a good source of information indeed (esp. the flowchart in the end)

Now, guides, experienced bc-travelers, formula one drivers, pilots, etc does anyone out here know how one can settle someone down and get him focused on the task at hand?

Any tips or tricks?

[iceman]

That's a good set of guidelines you have there, Caddy, although I guess you could probably skip the "If caught in an avalanche" part.

"Shit, I'm caught in an avalanche, where's that damn paper?"

[joshbu]

Well, you'd need a collegiate ergonomics library to research the effectiveness of written directions in high pressure situations.

My seat of the pants guess is that what you're proposing is not necessarily effective, and here's why:

Training for avalanche burial is not just about learning the skills necessary to recover a victim, it's also about exposing yourself to the emotional/mental/physical stress of the situation. By exposing yourself to those stresses, you increase your tolerance to them and improve your performance in similar situations.

[fez]

A couple points:

First of all, the only thing a foolproof system does is expose better fools.

Second, when the shit hits the fan in the bc is the time for learned reaction to kick in. Not the time to be learning.


Third, a bc group needs to be carefully constructed. I personally like to keep it to about 3 people, depending on length of trip and exposure. A goup of 3 lets two help one if one is in trouble and if help is needed, one can stay and one can go. (of course this all goes to shit if two get hurt). People's skill can be difficult to judge and groups that don't know each other should stick to mellower tours until they know and trust each other. A bc group is a team, and just like any other team, experience together is probably just as important as individual experience. When the shit hits the fan, its good to know how people are going to react. You never know if someone who has been skiing bc forever is only alive due to luck.

And last, Newbies dont count. In other words, i like to see three good experienced people for every newb. It is hard to think of a situation where a newb is automatically more of an asset than a liability. They are there to learn.

Some of my scariest days have been due to not carefully selecting my companions. The only avalanche i have ever been in occurred just after the guy i was skiing with for the first time informed me he had left his beacon at home. (This was at the top of the run) He explained he didn't need it since it was a spring corn trip. Of course our late start and my lack of familiarity with the trip led to us summiting long after corn had turned to slurpie, and I got to ride down the face of Mt Blackmore in a wet slide.

<phil esterhaus> Let's be careful out there.</phil>

[AH]

I'm sorry, but when I'm practicing with my beacon, I don't get anywhere near the stress I'd get in a true life/death situation.

[fez]

Originally posted by AH
thx, a good source of information indeed (esp. the flowchart in the end)

Now, guides, experienced bc-travelers, formula one drivers, pilots, etc does anyone out here know how one can settle someone down and get him focused on the task at hand?

Any tips or tricks?

I really don't think this can be done on the spot. You never know what is going to freak someone out. Really the best way to get someone to settle down is for them to be on complete auto pilot, training and experience need to be so concrete that focusing on the task at hand keeps them from panicing.


Practice is not especially stressful. Sometimes it can be made more so by getting a few teams together to find several buried transcievers and have a race. Its kind of like the difference between a scrimmage and a game. That practice gives you the skills to fall back on in time of trouble.
And you dont even know how someone (including yourself) is going to react in a situation until they are in that situation. As another example, I once canoed the snake river from south park to astoria in april, it was a warmup run for PPP. I had just moved to JH and was with a good friend, an old climbing buddy of his, and the buddy's wife.

the buddy had been a mining explosives expert, quit that and became a ski/climbing bum. He was a ski patroller, exum guide, and had been in a number of sketchy situations with my friend on a few different mountains. He had always remained calm and collected in any situation. The buddy and his wife caught an eddy wrong and flipped their boat, no wetsuits. And the buddy went straight into panic mode, what should have been a pretty mellow situation of get them out of the water and into a change of clothes turned into a rescue, he had never experienced having his breath taken away by frigid water. We finally got him and his boat out of the water (his wife swam to shore and was fine) then climbed up to the highway to go hitchike to the cars.

My friend remarked that he would never have expected his buddy to panic like that.

[AH]

And please remember, I just want to create something that might help save a life, especially considering the high-stress situation (I think that point is being overlooked sometimes). Just like a beacon, it doesn't replace good judgement or training. It's just something extra you can easily put in your pocket or backpack.

[Beaver]

You want a foolproof system? Don't be a fool and go out with gapers.

[AH]

Try reading...

[fez]

And thank you beav for succinctly condensing several paragraphs of post into one sentence.