Riding Giants - are you paying attention TGR?

[Idris]

The Chamonix guide who used to run La Chaumiere (can't remember his name) filmed lots of big mountain stuff from about 65 to 90...some of his 70's 35mm stuff is really hairy...not sure if he filmed Sudan much but Bovin, Baud and Vallencant for sure.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

...not sure if he filmed Sudan much but Bovin, Baud and Vallencant for sure.

I'd love to see footage of those le doods.

[Trackhead]

Well, over a year later and PJ Productions (Peter Jennings) is in post production on this exact idea.

They will have what seems to be extensive interviews and footage of the likes of Coombs, Mclean, Armstrong, Dawson, Briggs, and many others.

They've got a real budget to work with, and have put quite a bit of research and effort into it.

Talking with McLean the other day, they have some footage of him and some others taking quite a ride in an avy in Iceland, with mics on during the slide.

Not sure when they will be done editing, but it should be worth watching.

[Ripzalot]

cool! how bout scoring some preview trailers for us?

[truth]

TH, why must you piss in every pool with elitist ski mountaineering drivel?

We all know you like to walk uphill and that's fan-friggin-tastic but there's no reason to constantly henpeck every post that uses a term you don't like. I for one will not pay money to watch you walk for 8 hours to ski one run. Maybe it's just me.

[mghwk]

I would. Otherwise its just more heli skiing. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Twoplanker]

TH, why must you piss in every pool with elitist ski mountaineering drivel?

We all know you like to walk uphill and that's fan-friggin-tastic but there's no reason to constantly henpeck every post that uses a term you don't like. I for one will not pay money to watch you walk for 8 hours to ski one run. Maybe it's just me.

Yeah, please don't engage anyone in a thoughtful, articulate conversation about skiing. We wouldn't want to have too much of that shit here.

[gramps]

TH, why must you piss in every pool with elitist ski mountaineering drivel?

We all know you like to walk uphill and that's fan-friggin-tastic but there's no eason to constantly henpeck every post that uses a term you don't like. I for one will not pay money to watch you walk for 8 hours to ski one run. Maybe it's just me.

It's just you. Why don't you pony up and put up even 1/10th of the stoke that TH has? Because you're a whiny bitch.

And the movie we're talking about here is a big budget film by PJ productions, but you were too busy taking the opportunity to be a douchebag to notice.

[TeleAl]

the history of guiding as a profession

mostly because it includes alpinism which dates back centuries.

Not sure where it started nor why exactly, but I do know that guiding has been around since at least the late 1200's. When the Gottardo Pass connected Italian speaking land and Swiss land, one of the first services offered was a messenger service (which eventually became La Poste). Of course, these messengers were also guides of sorts, and others existed for merchandise and travellers. It was commerce then that drove the guide service.

Fire up the video, I can't wait to see that footage.

[phattypowpow]

I for one will not pay money to watch you walk for 8 hours to ski one run. Maybe it's just me.

I think it's you.

One of the biggest problems with ski porn today is that you can't really appreciate what athlete's are skiing without more background/info on how they got to the top or why they choose to ski that line. The answers are probably, most of the time: they took a heli and it "looked sick" - not so interesting.

Granted, no one wants to watch the monotony of the slog but I would welcome a movie that embraced the cerebral, strategic, and risk aspects of the sport. I can only watch so many ski rock videos before they all look the same.

For a great example of what I'm talking about, check out the 12 min 1978 flic, "Fall Line", with Steve Shea if you can find it.

[Trackhead]

For a great example of what I'm talking about, check out the 12 min 1978 flic, "Fall Line", with Steve Shea if you can find it.

Get ahold of Bob Carmichael at Denali Productions for that film. I bought it last summer, it's pretty entertaining watching Steve Shea slay it in the Tetons, then fall 800ft down the Koch Couloir on Middle. Excellent cinematography telling a fictional story of climbing and skiing the Grand Teton.

[cj001f]

One of the biggest problems with ski porn today is that you can't really appreciate what athlete's are skiing without more background/info on how they got to the top or why they choose to ski that line. The answers are probably, most of the time: they took a heli and it "looked sick" - not so interesting

Listening to most climbers discuss their choice of line is about as interesting "it looked sick in a guidebook dude". Personal backstory from athletes = almost universally boring. Historical backstory = interesting if well done.

In general Ski mountaineering doesn't have the aesthetic flowing skiing that translates well to video. AK ski porn does.

[Trackhead]

In general Ski mountaineering doesn't have the aesthetic flowing skiing that translates well to video. AK ski porn does.

True. Slow, methodical skiing isn't as visually stimulating as AK ski porn. But I think for those that find interest in this type of skiing, it is fun to watch and hear the story about someone trying for several years to find the right conditions to be able to climb something safely, and then ski it.

The thread about iskibc skiing Pyramid was immensely popular here on TGR. Perhaps because of the amount of effort and commitment it took not only to ski the line, but to climb it as well. What does that tell you? It tells you that people are interested in the ascent, not just the descent. Would that thread have been different if he flew a heli to the summit? Most definitely, because it takes away more than half of story.

[rideit]

Track, you are talking about a very targeted, captured demographic here on TGR. If anyone is gonna have a passing interest, they are likely to be found here. We are a bunch of snow-slut uber-nerds, basically. The general public would have a herder time 'connecting'.
Most ski films that are popular can be enjoyed in a crowded bar with the sound off.
I am not personally asserting that this is a good thing, just an observation.

[Trackhead]

Track, you are talking about a very targeted, captured demographic here on TGR. If anyone is gonna have a passing interest, they are likely to be found here. We are a bunch of snow-slut uber-nerds, basically. The general public would have a herder time 'connecting'.
Most ski films that are popular can be enjoyed in a crowded bar with the sound off.
I am not personally asserting that this is a good thing, just an observation.

I realize that completely. Both demographics we are discussing are very targeted and not typically interested in both subjects simutaneously.

[truth]

It's just you. Why don't you pony up and put up even 1/10th of the stoke that TH has? Because you're a whiny bitch.

I'd love to see you say that to me in person. Really, I would.

[truth]

Yeah, please don't engage anyone in a thoughtful, articulate conversation about skiing. We wouldn't want to have too much of that shit here.

That's not it at all. TH constantly bashes any access that's not human powered. We all know his POV and it's an honorable one, but there's no need to continually slam any mention of "big Mt" skiing when it's not a pure alpine style. Heli and sled access is just as big a part of the evolution of the sport, in fact, it's probably a larger part than the ice and crampon segment simply due to the sheer volume of skiing it represents. How does lift served skiing such as that found in places like La Grave figure in? Is one method really more important than another?

[cj001f]

I realize that completely. Both demographics we are discussing are very targeted and not typically interested in both subjects simutaneously.

I dunno, personal experience suggests the "earn your turns" market is a subset of the "ski movie" market (despite immense protests). The "surf movie" market pw3ns both, even though the number of people who actually surf isn't much bigger or smaller than the number of people who ski. This is, in my opinion, mostly because there are many more better done surf movies (the Moonshine Films for a start) than the best ski flicks (and the good ski flicks, like immersion, heavily lift from the surf biz), and the earn your turns flicks have almost universally sucked donkey balls (interesting climbing movie is an oxymoron).

[Trackhead]

That's not it at all. TH constantly bashes any access that's not human powered. We all know his POV and it's an honorable one, but there's no need to continually slam any mention of "big Mt" skiing when it's not a pure alpine style. Heli and sled access is just as big a part of the evolution of the sport, in fact, it's probably a larger part than the ice and crampon segment simply due to the sheer volume of skiing it represents. How does lift served skiing such as that found in places like La Grave figure in? Is one method really more important than another?

For God's sake Truth, pull your fucking panties out of your ass.

I'm sorry I can't help but poke fun at claiming first ski descents of peaks that were not climbed. It's my background as a climber first, skier second. Perhaps it's a bit contrived to think that way. I'm not taking away from the incredible athleticism these folks have. Their skills and abilities are inspirational. It's just the media terminology that bugs me, like "Extreme Skiing".

Let's be clear, I don't bashed motorized access. I rode a sled for two years to the hills. But I do bash these films touting first descents via helicopter ascent. Sorry, for me personally, something is missing there. Call me elitist, or whatever you want. It's not right or wrong, it's just my opinion. No need to get all upset over it.

[Trackhead]

I dunno, personal experience suggests the "earn your turns" market is a subset of the "ski movie" market. The "surf movie" market pw3ns both. This is, in my opinion, mostly because there are better done surf movies than the best ski flicks (and the good ski flicks, like immersion, heavily lift from the surf biz), and the earn your turns flicks have almost universally sucked donkey balls (interesting climbing movie is an oxymoron).

Did you watch Touching The Void?

Again, it's all a matter of what holds your interest.

[truth]

For God's sake Truth, pull your fucking panties out of your ass.

I'm sorry I can't help but poke fun at claiming first ski descents of peaks that were not climbed. It's my background as a climber first, skier second. Perhaps it's a bit contrived to think that way. I'm not taking away from the incredible athleticism these folks have. Their skills and abilities are inspirational. It's just the media terminology that bugs me, like "Extreme Skiing".

Let's be clear, I don't bashed motorized access. I rode a sled for two years to the hills. But I do bash these films touting first descents via helicopter ascent. Sorry, for me personally, something is missing there. Call me elitist, or whatever you want. It's not right or wrong, it's just my opinion. No need to get all upset over it.

Let's get one thing str8, I'm a commando guy 90% of the time. Panites might have their place but it's not up my ass.

While some fo the cliche verbiage might be hella annoying there is a need for some sort of useful and agreed upon terminology. Trite as they might be "Big Mountain" or "Extreme" have been absorbed into the mainstream vocabulary and as such are effective terms to describe the subject. A frist descent by defenition should only apply to the descent IMHO. Thus climbing it on foot or by bird, elevator, sled, hot air balloon, jet pack or whatever means got one to the top is irreleveant to the act of skiing down it. Is one more difficult than another? Sure. Does one method change the actual skiing descent? Not in my book.

[Trackhead]

Let's get one thing str8, I'm a commando guy 90% of the time. Panites might have their place but it's not up my ass.

While some fo the cliche verbiage might be hella annoying there is a need for some sort of useful and agreed upon terminology. Trite as they might be "Big Mountain" or "Extreme" have been absorbed into the mainstream vocabulary and as such are effective terms to describe the subject. A frist descent by defenition should only apply to the descent IMHO. Thus climbing it on foot or by bird, elevator, sled, hot air balloon, jet pack or whatever means got one to the top is irreleveant to the act of skiing down it. Is one more difficult than another? Sure. Does one method change the actual skiing descent? Not in my book.

Like I said, different strokes for different folks. It's not better or elitist, it's just different.

Now back to the discussion.......I'm thinking this "Big Mountain" skiing docu by PJ, that represents elitist "Ski Mountaineers" and sick gnar "Big Mountain Freeriders" will be worth watching. It will be the first of it's kind in this industry.

I'm not sure of their venue, as most of PJ's stuff produced by Tennebaum ends up on Primetime. Either way, I'm looking forward to it.

[cj001f]

Did you watch Touching The Void?

Again, it's all a matter of what holds your interest.

Yes, that was well done. So was "The Climb" - a fictionalized account of Buhl's Nanga Parbat ascent. So were some of the Leni Riefenstahl movies. I guess I don't think of any of those as 'climbing' movies though - climbing is a setting that the characters are fully integrated into.

Yes, it's all a matter of what holds your interest - for some reason surf movies can hold the interest of people who've never participated, climbing and skiing movies can't even hold the interest of participants ('Everest' is an aberration)

[Cometjo]

It just seems like stupid one upsmanship to say shit like "the only REAL big mountian skiing is earn your turns" when a lot of people use "big mountain" to mean something else (this is the descriptivist linguist in me coming out).

What is that something else? To me its about people who are interested in skiing a kind of gnar that was once thought unskiable--massive chugach faces, cliff bands, couloirs, pow lines with minimal turns. As a focus within skiing it's like like big wave surfing--its what some people are most interested in doing, and for others its not really the essence of the sport -- they might prefer trees, or think the climb up is as important as the descent, or like to huck, or even like (gasp!) running gates better than skiing steep chutes. Just like in surfing some people might be into tricks, or classic longboarding, and then other people will chase after the biggest wave they can find, even if it involves a tow in.

The analogy between big waves & big mountains works--something one of the surfers in Step Into Liquid said made a lot of sense to me about why I like to ski that hardest stuff I can (which isn't Chugach faces, yet): he said "When I ride a 7 or 8 foot wave I can think about what's going on at the office ... But when I'm riding a big wave I'm right there, and that's all I'm doing."

And yeah, a history of how big mountain skiing, in these terms, go to be the important part of skiing it is today would rock!

[rideit]

hmmm. I wish TH had been a character in this classic: