2011/12 buy an Avy Airbag? discussion thread

[icelanticskier]

Not to mention; since you like to roll solo why even bother with beacon/prob/shovel?...All are useless solo. Really, the only device that would help is a ABS bag.

you ski the wasatch right? how often do you come across other parties in the bc? most of the time, right? i mean, it's the wasatch. well, if yer in the vicinity of another party that gets in trouble and you have the tools to rescue/recover the victim then wouldn't it seem logical to tour solo with beacon/probe/shovel? same if role is reversed.

Rog just gets off on being that Kooky guy that does everything different and flies in the face of conventional wisdom....and he just has to let you know about it.

i do things the way i like to do them and that work for me best. i'm an individual with my own opinions, you should try it sometime.

nope in rogworld that is just proof that a partner is dangerous, after all he never has been in a slide when he was solo. duh!.
he fails to reconize the fact that accident can and do happen even when prepared

i think you need to come down to the beach so we can talk this out face to face. dood. you are too much.

rog

[icelanticskier]

Were you super in tune w/ your surroudings on this particular outing? Did you leave your clue/respect/tact at home in favor or you beacon/shovel/probe on this particular day? Seems like someone who had admittedly "gotten lucky" in the last 9 months might appreciate the empirical evidence regarding increased odds of avoiding burial with this piece of equipment and avoid cunting up this thread to lecture us, but that doesn't seem like your style...can't imagine why you really tour alone as often as you claim.

1st off, nice contribution dooshbag. yup, i fucked up that day, but my partner and i went into that run with a plan and he stayed where he was supposed to and i skied the slope as planned, got caught, and ultimately got out unscathed. had i dropped in right, tried to outrun it far left, or not expected that run to be as unstable as it was, things may have resulted in a less than desireable outcome.

ripping on me for sharing a pretty scary personal experience, one that definitely forced me to take a step back to step forward is pretty shitty. many folks getting caught out there would keep it to themselves and no one would learn from their experiences.

good luck to you.

rog

[honus]

you ski the wasatch right? how often do you come across other parties in the bc? most of the time, right? i mean, it's the wasatch. well, if yer in the vicinity of another party that gets in trouble and you have the tools to rescue/recover the victim then wouldn't it seem logical to tour solo with beacon/probe/shovel? same if role is reversed.

I thought you were the only one who's smart enough to be out there on high danger days, do you really run into that many other people? I always thought that you were the only one out on MTW on days when things could really go wrong, other people just don't know as much about this stuff as you (heuristic trap). You're so rad.

Why would you consider skiing a slope if there's even a chance of avalanche? Even if you're using ski cuts/safe spots/communication there's still always a chance of getting caught up in a big one...like what happened to you. It was by but the grace of god that you weren't flushed through trees or pinned under the snow, either injured or dead. Maybe if you realized that what you do in the BC to feel "safe" is different from what other (vast majority) of people do you would actually shut the fuck up for a while. Your decision making process has been changed by heuristic traps, and if you don't realize that, then you're really in for some trouble.

I know you think that sharing your fucked up point of view on this stuff is helpful, but know that you chose to do things in a way that is needlessly dangerous. If it works for you, great, but be prepared to pay the ultimate price sometime, because no matter how hard you try you will never be 100% in control in the mountains. There are too many factors out of our control that can change too rapidly to be able to compensate for. I would NEVER tour with someone who thinks they have everything under control, again, heuristic trap.

I really hoped that after you nearly died last winter it would open your eyes to what I consider vast errors in your judgement. You were given an opportunity to realize how badly you fucked up, and make some changes. Instead of becoming more humble, it's maybe you even more annoying and wrong than ever.

Keep pulling the dragon's tail, he's going to bite you even harder next time.

[sfotex]

1st off, nice contribution dooshbag. yup, i fucked up that day, but my partner and i went into that run with a plan and he stayed where he was supposed to and i skied the slope as planned, got caught, and ultimately got out unscathed. had i dropped in right, tried to outrun it far left, or not expected that run to be as unstable as it was, things may have resulted in a less than desireable outcome.

ripping on me for sharing a pretty scary personal experience, one that definitely forced me to take a step back to step forward is pretty shitty. many folks getting caught out there would keep it to themselves and no one would learn from their experiences.

good luck to you.

rog

Sounds like others might have learned some stuff from this situation, but I bet it's a different stuff then what you learned. You got fucking lucky. If your a religious person, your god or gods saved you. See, if it was me I would have been out buying an airbag and helmet that afternoon (btw, those trees would have pummeled you like baseball bats).

And what's this 'not expected that run to be as unstable as it was' ??? You knew the slope was sketchy and still decided to ski it?

[My Pet Powder Goat]

i do things the way i like to do them and that work for me best. i'm an individual with my own opinions, you should try it sometime.

i think you need to come down to the beach so we can talk this out face to face. dood. you are too much.

rog

what honus said^^^ I don't have the time or patience to spell out to you all the reasons you're a moran. it's a long list.

but hey, keep doing what you do.... we're not telling you not to do it, It's your opinion and life. Were just voicing our opinion and calling you a kook for doing it.

are you asking me to 'check my spare'?

Yeah, I wasn't gonna mention that. Assumed solo in the bc is like soloing while climbing - different mindset, different rules...no use comparing that to climbing with partners.

I Understand, But we're talking about rog here. he already admitted he likes going out on high avy/storm days solo. common sense has no precedent here

[Buster Highmen]

That's it: I'm going back to beartraps.

[skifishbum]

TGR NEEDS TO MAKE ROJ AND SKIDOG MODERATORS
In all 3or 4 ut avvy incedents I've been part of the abs would have done little.
and I'm real leary of swiss #'s and their translation to the wasatch
Look at the avvy incidents year for last including the wizzards and abasin femur frac
possibly would have helped in the silver f slide but once again the quaky aspens did a lot of damage.
I know sooner or later I'll embrace this tech
but as i grow older the desire to ski shit with my avabong in my mouth hand on the abs trigge multiple partners w/ sar plb's out and ready to speed dial wanes
why isn't roj spancered????

[PNWbrit]

Not to mention; since you like to roll solo why even bother with beacon/prob/shovel?...All are useless solo.

Solo = take a thermos of warm piss.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Solo = take a thermos of warm piss.

really? It's been a long summer and I'm behind on my ski lingo.

[PNWbrit]

really? It's been a long summer and I'm behind on my ski lingo.

Man pisses way out of avalanche. veracity = undetermined

[sfotex]

and I'm real leary of swiss #'s and their translation to the wasatch
Look at the avvy incidents year for last including the wizzards and abasin femur frac
possibly would have helped in the silver f slide but once again the quaky aspens did a lot of damage.

From TheDon's link in this thread:

Fifty-six avalanche deaths [in Utah] were identified during the study period. Most deaths occurred while participating in recreational backcountry activities; 85.7% of deaths were due to asphyxiation, 8.9% were due to a combination of asphyxiation and trauma, and 5.4% were due to trauma alone. Head injuries were frequent in those killed solely by trauma.


That was enough evidence for me to pull the trigger. And with the 8.9 percent, one would have to assume coming up on top is going to shift your priorities to stopping bleeding (A Basin...), keeping the patient warm, and for the Silver F slide (from the avy center): 'Ricardo was dug out in approximately 20 minutes......here were signs of trauma from the long ride. Two aspens, one about 5” in diameter had to be sawed to get his body out of the hole.' That's 20 mins that could have been used to get the patient to an ambulance/LifeFlight LZ, etc.

[skifishbum]

Thing is every year beacons probes tecniques availibilty of practice parks eknowlegde etc makes those data #'s sceward
THE YELLER ARVA I ROCKED FOR YEARS AINT NEARLY AS USER FREINDLY as the new multi antenner beacons
Is there data on increased #'s of peeps takin avvy classes vrs. when a lot of those incidents occoured?
#'S ARE FUNNY YOU CAN CRUNCH EM BOUT ANY WAY YOU WANT TO make them fit your decission
I'm not dissin the concept but it's like comparing muscle cars of the 70's to todays
hybrids.
and If one decides to spend his loot on an abs instead of a good first aid or other partner lifesavin classes/certs. you really aint doin much for your partners. imo

[sfotex]

and If one decides to spend his loot on an abs instead of a good first aid or other partner lifesavin classes/certs. you really aint doin much for your partners. imo

Well, one thing I've learned over the last few years is retarded people are going to be retarded, so if they can buy a tool that let's them do their retarded shit in a safer maner then I'm all for it.

Luckily for my partners I carry a long probe, heavy ass brook range shovel, a nice beacon that I can use, and good medical knowledge

[skifishbum]

Well, one thing I've learned over the last few years is retarded people are going to be retarded, so if they can buy a tool that let's them do their retarded shit in a safer maner then I'm all for it.

Luckily for my partners I carry a long probe, heavy ass brook range shovel, a nice beacon that I can use, and good medical knowledge

prob got that for less than 7 bills
I'M THINKIN BOUT JUST HIRIN JP TO AVVY GUINNIE P ALL OUR SLOPES
OR WAITIN TILL BC BOMBS BECOME LEGAL
me THINKS PRES OF SAR SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SLOPE STABILITY TESTING VIA EXPLOSIVES IF THE FLYING TURDS GET TO.
and there is little chance of me ever buying a bca fall apart made in china packs when you could get fkna made in the usa packs from the guy that does it right.
THE DANA BOMB PACK WAS MY SECOND PACK AFTER THE DAKINE OUT OF BOUNDS
bomber shit
MADE BY AMERICANS
bro

[Onward]

Random data from norway: The 5th of march 2011 three skiers trigged an avalanche into a small valley/terrain trap in rauland. First skier with airbag wound up on top of the snow, second skier with airbag buried to his hips, third skier without airbag buried 2m deep. Dug out after 30min, died in the hospital of asphyxia injuries 12 hours later. AFAIK this was the first recorded avy incident with abs backpacks here in norway.

[TheDon]

THE DANA BOMB PACK WAS MY SECOND PACK AFTER THE DAKINE OUT OF BOUNDS
bomber shit
MADE BY AMERICANS
bro

Not any more...

In 1996, K2 Inc., the parent company of K2 skis and snowboards, acquired Dana Designs. In 2004, K2 Inc. acquired Marmot. In 2005, Dana Designs was merged into Marmot and became part of the Marmot pack line. In 2006, the Dana brand became Marmot

Now K2 makes it ALL in china.

[Scotsman50]

I never thought I'd be defending rog BUT.
1. There's nothing wrong with touring solo.... we have the right to put ourselves in danger if we choose to! rog is exercising that right.
2. Touring on high avy days can be very educational and Andrew Mclean wrote an article once about how going into the "belly of the beast "and seeing it could be very educational.... he stressed that you needed to choose your terrain and area carefully and travel with companions...but the fact remains... seeing what high avy danger really means in the field can help if you are a serious student. Those days aren't really skiing days... they are avy class days.
3. Rog, IMHO is correct that for some people( ALL IMHO) having air bags and avalaungs etc. can lead to a false sense of security . It's another heuristic trap and UNLESS you are aware of it.. it can lead to trouble.... that doesn't mean you shouldn't use them...it means you should be aware of the trap that they can induce into your thinking.

Now despite this, where rog loses me is with his posturing about being some sort of avy Yoda with some sort of superior knowledge travelling the BC solo and his argument that helmets( and other safety gear) aren't required as if you fall ..you are skiing beyond your limits( he says he never falls and controls his skiing to make sure that happens) etc, etc. This posturing destroys some of the good thought provoking points he has and just aren't logical... and that's a shame.

[MTslackcountry]

Mystery Ranch is located in Bozeman, Mt. and is owned by Dana Gleason... Im guessing here.... but I bet he sold dana designs for a pretty penny and then started mystery ranch which is made in the USA.

[skifishbum]

Not any more...



Now K2 makes it ALL in china.

mystery ranch = made in usa
k2 = crap made in china

[PNWbrit]

avy Yoda

"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Rogers. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained! A Roger must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Roger craves not these things..... You are reckless!"

[sfotex]

I never thought I'd be defending rog BUT.
1. There's nothing wrong with touring solo.... we have the right to put ourselves in danger if we choose to! rog is exercising that right.
2. Touring on high avy days can be very educational and Andrew Mclean wrote an article once about how going into the "belly of the beast "and seeing it could be very educational.... he stressed that you needed to choose your terrain and area carefully and travel with companions...but the fact remains... seeing what high avy danger really means in the field can help if you are a serious student. Those days aren't really skiing days... they are avy class days.
3. Rog, IMHO is correct that for some people( ALL IMHO) having air bags and avalaungs etc. can lead to a false sense of security . It's another heuristic trap and UNLESS you are aware of it.. it can lead to trouble.... that doesn't mean you shouldn't use them...it means you should be aware of the trap that they can induce into your thinking.

I agree with the above too, in fact I would even say that touring solo on a high risk day could be safer in some ways, b/c your not going to run the risk of 'Well, that slope isn't too steep, and I have a strong partner to spot me, and there's tracks in it anyways' - the thought process turns into 'I'm going to tour on the 20 degree slope with nothing above it next to the road' and your probably going to stick to it. I tour solo, I also go out on high risk days too (butler aspens or short swing anyone?), but I also go out and ski 36 degree slopes on moderate danger days, and this is where a lot of people with avy training get into trouble. Then I want a good head on my shoulders, a partner with the same, avy gear, etc...

[LeeLau]

This is the Slide Zone where usually discussions stay on point and I'm glad to see that this discussion is back on point without the penis waving posturing side to it. Thanks for that.

[TheDon]

It's all about the penis waving these days.

Just my .02. IMHO. FWIW.

[skifishbum]

[CookieMonster]

Even though my wild days are mostly behind me, I'm seriously thinking about buying an airbag. It seems pretty stupid not to have one when I've got thousands of dollars worth of mountain sports sex toys in my spare bedroom, right?