Replacement Liners

[focus]

I'm trying to improve the fit of my boots. I have surefoot custom footbeds (courtesy of ski monkey) and really wish I'd had the cash to throw at some custom liners as well. There aren't any reputable shops nearby who do the whole custom liner thing, and I'm really not sure when I'm going to get a chance to go on a real "ski trip" again (or any kind of trip, for that matter).

I know there's a few different replacement liners out there -- what should I get that I'll be able to take care of at home? What's good, what's bad, why? What kind of experiences have people had w/ these kinds of jobs?

Thanks in advance.

[Below Zero]

what should I get that I'll be able to take care of at home?

Not sure what you mean by this?

There are either Foam Injected Liners and Heat Moldable Liners.

Heat Moldable Liners are a cheaper than the Foam Injected, but Foam Injected have a more precise fit. Some say that heat moldable liners are warmer that the foam injected, but I am not sure. I have foam injected liners and as long as you remove the liner to let it dry after you ski, you are fine. This is what my boot fitter said about both liners:

"even though I do both types, the difference in precision between foam and heat moldable is quite obvious when you see the shells swell under pressure, every void and space in the boot is filled with a much denser and therefore more reactive material. it is unfortunately heavier and not quite as warm, but still significantly warmer than a stock liner."

[focus]

Not sure what you mean by this?

Sorry -- I meant that I can fit at home, without the assistance of a bootfitter. Something I can throw in the oven, or what have you....

[phUnk]

You could do Thermoflex liners (heat remoldable) yourself, but it would be tough to do them well if you don't even know they exist. These are your best bet, but it's unlikely that you'd get them dialed yourself.

I have ZipFit liners, which are a cork compound heat remoldable liner.

Foam is supposed to be more precise, but it is only good for that shell. You can't transfer a foamed liner to a different shell.

[Dromond]

I've cooked my thermoflex liners at home and had it done by a good bootfitter (while getting footbeds.) He didn't do anything I didn't, and they felt just as good as the first time.

[focus]

You could do Thermoflex liners (heat remoldable) yourself, but it would be tough to do them well if you don't even know they exist.

I'm sorry -- so what does my ability "to do them well" have to do with my prior knowledge of the product? I don't really see the connection... this isn't brain surgery. I'm not an idiot and I'm pretty goddamned handy.

Indignation aside, thanks for the suggestions... I just wanted to know what's worked for others in the past before dropping cash on a product.

What about the Garmont Omni compared to the thermoflex and zipfit? Anybody tried those?

[Foggy_Goggles]

If you've got a 27.0 (9ish) I sell ya an unused Garmont themo liner for $50 + shipping and you can figure it all out.

[Atrain505]

I'll add on a question. Talking with a guy about intuition liners this past weekend. Anybody have knowledge of what these are all about?

[Will]

Intuition is a canadian company that makes heat remoldable liners, much like the thermoflex ones. "Thermoflex" is the name of the heat remodable liners made by Raichle (and now Kneissel?). Sort of like how we call all tissues "Kleenex", heat remoldable liners are sometimes all broadly called thermoflex liners.

Intuition are the folks who make the heat remoldable liners for Scarpa boots and also, I think, Morrow snowboard boots.

http://www.intuitionsports.com/homepage.htm

[wilcox510]

i dont think intuition makes the scarpa liner, if they do they are still very different liners. intuition makes one called the alpine wrap or something like that. it is way stiffer than any other thermoflex style liner out there. it also fills more space than the scarpas. i have both and there is definitely a difference. if it was for an alpine boot i would go with the intuition, and it would be extremely helpful to have a shop do it. its difficult to get them into the boot (and around your foot) properly by yourself in an alpine boot, not too bad in AT boots though.

[Will]

i dont think intuition makes the scarpa liner, if they do they are still very different liners.

Maybe I'm wrong, but during the first season of Scarpa's thermoliners (when they were using the tongue closure) word on the street was the liners were made for Scarpa by Intuition (sort of like Goode makes skis for DB, or like Atomic making skis for BD). Maybe that changed when Scarpa switched to the overlap closure though. In any case, I'm sure that the liners Intuition made for Scarpa would be different from those they made for alpine boots.

I know that Intuition has made liners for Morrow though, as I have a pair that I tried to cram into my ice climbing boots and they've got a big 'ol Intuition logo on them.

[phUnk]

I'm sorry -- so what does my ability "to do them well" have to do with my prior knowledge of the product? I don't really see the connection... this isn't brain surgery. I'm not an idiot and I'm pretty goddamned handy.

If you don't even know they exist, what are the chances you're going to know how to (or have experience) doing a set yourself?

There you go, bitch. []

[focus]

If I didn't know they existed I wouldn't be asking questions about them.... I'm actually familiar w/ the concept. Doing it w/o the benefit of an "expert" bootfitter is the very fucking premise of my question -- I don't live in or close to a ski town.

Just looking for recommendations and experiences w/ the products on the market, bitch.

[Jiehkevarri]

Here's a good instruction for molding Thermoflex liners:

http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/sho...?articles_id=3

I'm also wondering myself how to do this properly...(by these instructions). I ordered the liners from Telemark-Pyrenees...now the problem is that the liners seem much more "puffy" (high volume) compared to my thin (packed) old liners (similar ones from Cham's Footworks), and it looks like I'm going to have tuff time adjusting them to the shells. Anyway, I remember somebody here saying that those liners pack alot after the heating? Can anyone confirm this?

So, I can say nothing sure yet (before I've tried to heat those in my oven...)

The process seems quite simple though.Roughly: Just put the liners in the oven. Heat them a while. Put liners in the shells - with footbeds of course. Put your feet in, let the liners cool for about 10-15 min. (some more minor details about the temperatures, toe room etc. in the link above --> i suggest to check it before doing anything )

EDIT: Here's someone talking about packing OUT when heated, size wise...

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=21921

but I'm not concerned (only) about the size but the overall "puffiness" of the boot...I have very tight fit on my Lange Banshee Pros, and the problem is that it looks like the liners are overall too thick to fit in the boots . Can't get my buckles tightened! Could it be that Lange's fit is just too narrow for those liners (Intuition) in general? The one's I got earlier must have been thinner in the first place?

[Meathelmet]

I'm also wondering myself how to do this properly...(by these instructions). I ordered the liners from Telemark-Pyrenees...now the problem is that the liners seem much more "puffy" (high volume) compared to my thin (packed) old liners (similar ones from Cham's Footworks), and it looks like I'm going to have tuff time adjusting them to the shells. Anyway, I remember somebody here saying that those liners pack alot after the heating? Can anyone confirm this?

...but I'm not concerned (only) about the size but the overall "puffiness" of the boot...I have very tight fit on my Lange Banshee Pros, and the problem is that it looks like the liners are overall too thick to fit in the boots . Can't get my buckles tightened! Could it be that Lange's fit is just too narrow for those liners (Intuition) in general? The one's I got earlier must have been thinner in the first place?

The old thermoflexes were thinner than the now existing, if i understod a conversation right.

But the new ones will fit,dont worry.
I put a 27 number reichle flexon innerboot to a 26 size rossi shell, heated it up in skiservice (for free) and avot.

The fill felt at first too...well,full...and
i made the mistake to go there for a second heating after couple of weeks (my inner arches cramped after a long day) , in witch i pulled the the innerboot upwards while heated, creating more room in the the ankle/footbed area.

Now after 70 days, they are now packed up that they are a tad pit too big...
If i only would have heated them up on the second time, and put some taping/padding on the arch of the foot, they would be in better shape now, i guess.

But, stoopid does, stoopid pays...

[Jiehkevarri]

Thanks Meat...

I actually called the same place where you did the fitting...and they said it will be allright. I am going to do the heating & fitting also there. Maybe better that start to play with the oven by myself...

So, we'll see...

[Mountainman]

I love the intuitions. Shelling out the cash to get them in a second pair of boots.

And i too have an unused 29.0 Garmont g-fit liner for sale

[CaddyDaddy77]

I love the intuitions. Shelling out the cash to get them in a second pair of boots.

And i too have an unused 29.0 Garmont g-fit liner for sale

I might be in the market at the right price, please PM.

[phUnk]

If I didn't know they existed I wouldn't be asking questions about them.... I'm actually familiar w/ the concept. Doing it w/o the benefit of an "expert" bootfitter is the very fucking premise of my question -- I don't live in or close to a ski town.

Just looking for recommendations and experiences w/ the products on the market, bitch.

I was just making sure you knew that getting them right took more than just "heating them up in the oven," sticking them in your shells and putting them on. This is, I think you'll agree, quite pertinent to the very fucking premise of your question.



PS. Bitch,

[Spats]

Daleboot USA sells their Thermofit liners separately. They are tongueless, though, so they may not work with every boot.

When they did my fitting, they identified every possible pressure point on my foot (i.e. where bones were sticking out), cut out small pieces of foam, and stuck them there before molding the liner.

Result: 5.5 seasons of happiness. I keep waiting for the liners to disintegrate, but except for packing out a bit after season #2 (solved by putting in a stock footbed, which they gave me for free), they've been wonderful. I can ski an entire day and never think about my feet.

[focus]

I was just making sure you knew that getting them right took more than just "heating them up in the oven," sticking them in your shells and putting them on. This is, I think you'll agree, quite pertinent to the very fucking premise of your question.

Aware of that.

[focus]

bitch.

[mn_teleswede]

to get a perrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect fit with your footbeds try putting your footbed in the bottom of a ski sock and then putting your foot in the sock- this eliminates the hassles/loss of time/bad fit when putting the baked liner into your shell and molding it to your foot.

but what do I know?


Actually quite a bit.