Flea Problems - Paging Hutash

**uglymoney** · 10-05-2011, 09:52 AM

We've been using Frontline Plus every three weeks since May and once a month before that since Bridger the Mini Aussie was a pup. Sometime in May we picked up a resistant flea. The Frontline seems to start controlling them a little for maybe a week after we put it on then right back to the same thing. The only thing that works is Capstar but only for a day or two of course. We have a 1.5 year old girl so my wife refuses to fumigate or otherwise put a pesticide inside the house - there seems to be no hope in convincing her otherwise and I'm not so sure I want to anyway.

Any recommendations on something that works on fleas resistant to Frontline Plus? Petmeds says Advantix II for a topical. There is also Advantage II but that doesn't control ticks which is a no go in Iowa with deer ticks and Lyme disease. Reading the comments on Petmeds seems to suggest Advantix II also has fleas that are resistant to it.

I'd be willing to try a pill as well or mixing them up if it was safe and effective. I've used Frontline for over a decade and it worked great till this summer. The folks at Frontline claim that it should take care of any and all fleas we have after a couple months with no treatment of the house needed. I believe that might have been true at one time but it hasn't been my experience this summer.

**flatlander#2** · 10-05-2011, 09:52 AM

freeze him.

**uglymoney** · 10-05-2011, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by flatlander#2

freeze him.

This weekend he swam in a freezing cold river and he kept playing chicken with the campfire with no efficacy. He likes to jump out of the canoe and swim/run along side of it rather than just riding in it. Freezing him solid might work but we're trying to kill the fleas not the dog. We have had some solid frosts here so I'm thinking our yard should be contributing less and less to the problem as we get into fall.

**boarddad** · 10-05-2011, 10:17 AM

It's October. Any fleas you are getting from outside are about done for the year so at least you have the problem confined to the house. You could give the dog a close trim but probably not the best idea this close to winter. I'd bathe the dog, wait a couple of days then stick with Frontline if it has worked in the past. In the mean time, vacuum the house weekly and steam clean the carpets. Latest word is that will work better than any pesticide.

When your daughter gets near school age, forbid her to wear hats. Head lice is going around the schools where I live and they make fleas look like a joke. Fuckers are impossible to get rid of and the kids can't go to school if they have them.

**flatlander#2** · 10-05-2011, 10:18 AM

eek, yeah it's in your house. Washing will strip the oils off him and he might not like that as it's getting colder. You could burn your house, but there might be other options.

**uglymoney** · 10-05-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by boarddad

It's October. Any fleas you are getting from outside are about done for the year so at least you have the problem confined to the house. You could give the dog a close trim but probably not the best idea this close to winter. I'd bathe the dog, wait a couple of days then stick with Frontline if it has worked in the past. In the mean time, vacuum the house weekly and steam clean the carpets. Latest word is that will work better than any pesticide.

We've done that so many times this summer/fall plus linens etx. We have the cleanest worn out carpet you have ever seen. It works a little but then the cycle just starts all over again. If capstar wasn't six bucks a pill I'd give him one of those every day for an entire cycle.

**hutash** · 10-05-2011, 01:50 PM

Gasoline + match = problem solved

Just be sure the dog is not near anything flammable when you ignite it.

Advantix is a very good product, with little if any flea resistance, but it is pretty nasty stuff (I much prefer Advantage but we don't have the many tick issues here.) the II part is mostly marketing, but they nearly all have it, and it is totally safe, so don't worry about it. The other option is Comfortis a once a month pill that seems to work well and not be too toxic. I am not a fan of systemic pesticides, but sometimes it is the better way to go. The other thing I would do is buy your flea products from your vet. You pay more, but with it comes a lot of good advice and help solving such problems, plus most companies guarantee their products if sold through a "real" vet (not Drs Foster and Smith, i.e. quack and quack). Since a lot of flea product is gray market and out right Chinese knock off you may not an have effective product to begin with.

I practice in a massive flea area, and while I occasionally find a product not to work well, it is rarely, if ever, do to resistance, but most often due to operator error and/or bad product. I rarely recommend house and yard treat, but will admit it is somethings beneficial, but that is usually because of poor treatment choices to begin with and I am trying to get over a severe infestation.

**uglymoney** · 10-05-2011, 02:18 PM

I've been buying Frontline from a vet but that is all they sell for topicals. They do have a flea/heartworm pill that they said something about. When I first had the problem back in May I did blame it on operator error. Bridger wiggles a lot and so I figured I just hadn't applied it properly and I might have gone a month and a half between applications - but the product is supposed to protect for three months for fleas and a month for ticks Frontline told me they couldn't help me out since I admitted to not hitting him exactly every thirty days. Since then I have been extremely vigilant about my applications, hitting him every twenty one days and making certain it gets on his skin through his hair. Another dog Bridger hangs out with on occasion has experienced the same issues this summer and that dog also uses Frontline.

My vet keeps giving me the same answers and those solutions aren't working. I do worry about putting a different product on that could cause a reaction and then I'm screwed because I didn't buy it from my vet but right now I'm willing to try anything. Several months of Frontline hasn't done jack shit. Thanks for the response Hutash.

**Sessiøn** · 10-05-2011, 02:21 PM

We have had the weenie dogs on Comfortis all year with good results.

**Cisco Kid** · 10-05-2011, 05:43 PM

Some garlic added to flavor the dogs meal has worked for me in the past. Not an instant fix but it worked.

**hutash** · 10-05-2011, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by uglymoney

I've been buying Frontline from a vet but that is all they sell for topicals. They do have a flea/heartworm pill that they said something about. When I first had the problem back in May I did blame it on operator error. Bridger wiggles a lot and so I figured I just hadn't applied it properly and I might have gone a month and a half between applications - but the product is supposed to protect for three months for fleas and a month for ticks Frontline told me they couldn't help me out since I admitted to not hitting him exactly every thirty days. Since then I have been extremely vigilant about my applications, hitting him every twenty one days and making certain it gets on his skin through his hair. Another dog Bridger hangs out with on occasion has experienced the same issues this summer and that dog also uses Frontline.

My vet keeps giving me the same answers and those solutions aren't working. I do worry about putting a different product on that could cause a reaction and then I'm screwed because I didn't buy it from my vet but right now I'm willing to try anything. Several months of Frontline hasn't done jack shit. Thanks for the response Hutash.

As long as you wait the usual period between applications you will not have a cross reaction issue. Hell if you apply them a week apart tou will not have issues, but I don't recommend it. Most of the products are so different that there is not likely to be any reaction. I would call Merial (Frontline) again and bitch now that you have been doing it correctly, or at least they should help you figure out what you are not doing right. You should not apply Frontline within two days either way of swimming or bathing. Advantage/Advantix are not going to work as well if the dog is in the water a lot, or bathed between application. For a water dog Comfortis may be your best option, although it will not take care of the ticks.

**fishbenk** · 10-06-2011, 09:35 PM

After the Kirby vacuum salesman gave my house fleas, I used food grade Diatomaceous earth to get rid of them. Food grade Diatomaceous earth is fossilized algae. From what I read it is non-toxic and kills the fleas by scraping their exoskeleton causing them to dehydrate to death. I bought a 10lb bag from the local feed store for $10 and sprinkled some all over the carpet. Then I used a broom to drive the earth deep into the carpet. I let it sit for a few days and vacuumed it up and repeated the process a couple of times. This seemed to work really well for my situation. The disadvantage is that it has the consistency of chalk and sweeping it into the carpet creates a dust cloud that gets all over everything so more dusting than usual is needed. So in addition to the advice above this technique might provide additional help.

**hutash** · 10-07-2011, 11:22 AM

^^^Yeah that can help, but wear a respirator, you don't want to breath that non-toxic shit. It is basically very, very fine glass, and silicosis of the lungs is no picnic. (Usually takes chronic exposure.)

**uglymoney** · 10-08-2011, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by hutash

As long as you wait the usual period between applications you will not have a cross reaction issue. Hell if you apply them a week apart tou will not have issues, but I don't recommend it. Most of the products are so different that there is not likely to be any reaction. I would call Merial (Frontline) again and bitch now that you have been doing it correctly, or at least they should help you figure out what you are not doing right. You should not apply Frontline within two days either way of swimming or bathing. Advantage/Advantix are not going to work as well if the dog is in the water a lot, or bathed between application. For a water dog Comfortis may be your best option, although it will not take care of the ticks.

He is a water dog and becoming more so all the time so a pill like Comfortis is appealing to me especially since the Capstars are rockstar but my vet doesn't seem to have it. We do make sure he doesn't swim after treatments and his rare baths are given with a product the vet claims doesn't strip the oils from his skin (some type of oatmeal shampoo) His dog friend got the Advantage II treatment from Petco or somewhere like that and they say that has been working well they think. You nudged me out of ordering this stuff online so I went back to my vet. The flea/heartworm pill I mentioned they had was actually a topical from Pfizer - Revolution. The vet tech told me they have had many, many people who have had problems with both Frontline and Revolution this summer and though she didn't explicitly recommend it, she said some clients are applying once a month at two week intervals since there is no cross reaction. According to the directions Revolution can be applied no less than two hours from a water immersion so we're okay there. Double teaming these products is my plan since I have a supply of both at the moment.

I've posted signs in my yard. BEWARE TOXIC DOG!

**hutash** · 10-08-2011, 09:13 AM

I hav e never heard anybody double teaming meds like that. It is probably safe for a short while, but I can guarantee you there are no studies showing if it is safe or not.

When you are out of the double whammy, try Comfortis. If your vet doesn't carry it just have him write you an Rx for it, that is what I do for the few clients that want it.

BTW-if your dog stars pissing green hide him away or the EPA will turn your yard into a Superfund site.

**3snowboards** · 10-08-2011, 09:29 AM

Don't take the dog away or your flea friends will really attack you.
I'm surprised nobody said to put a desk lamp on the floor with a shallow dish of soapy water under it.
Its a tried and true way to get the most aggressive ones.
I always used to eventually have to bomb the place.

**Lev** · 03-10-2012, 07:26 PM

Bumpity

MotherFUCKING fleas man.

My dog and cat got 'em. The dog most likely gave them to the cat, but the cat got symptomatic first. This has been going on for about 2 weeks now after being a regular Frontline user for both my boys.

I went to the pet store last weekend and picked up a flea comb, flea spray, and flea shampoo. The spray is some natural shit that can go on the pets and carpet and furniture and etc.

I just got done giving both cat and dog a bath with the flea shampoo. Second time this week. Been vacuuming the house every couple days. I'm going to take these motherfuckers out. All out war in the Lev household. I feel like a bad pet owner that this happened.

Note to the East coasters: this has been a particularly WARM winter. They say fleas and ticks are going to be at an all time high. Treat your pets and be on the lookout! This shit sucks and you don't want it to happen to your four legged buddies.

**Jangles13** · 03-10-2012, 07:56 PM

There has been rampant Frontline counterfeiting, even through trusted sources. As such, my vet has recommended switching to a different product. I struggled for 3 months with fleas, and only now after the switch to Advantix have gotten it controlled. Advantix won't work for you, with cats though, since it's lethal to them. I was told Revolution would be a good option too, but it's not great at controlling ticks, and my pup is a tick magnet.

**hutash** · 03-10-2012, 10:15 PM

If you buy Frontline through your vet it will be genuine. We get our supply directly from Merial. There have been more instances of Frontline not working, but I have rarely had an issue with productwe have sold. Anything online or from the pet shop, and you are on your own.

Correct Advantix is dog only. Becareful if there are cats in the house. Advantage is both cat and dog, but does not get ticks.

**Lev** · 03-11-2012, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by hutash

If you buy Frontline through your vet it will be genuine. We get our supply directly from Merial. There have been more instances of Frontline not working, but I have rarely had an issue with productwe have sold. Anything online or from the pet shop, and you are on your own.

Correct Advantix is dog only. Becareful if there are cats in the house. Advantage is both cat and dog, but does not get ticks.

Awesome. My pet store might have sold me $50 worth of water packaged up in a shitty dropper thingy.

**hutash** · 03-11-2012, 10:16 AM

Just be satisfied in the knowledge you are keeping the Chinese economy growing.

**Theodore** · 03-11-2012, 08:39 PM

Also pay attention to your yard. There are a few companies that make a yard spray that can help kill them outside. A few years ago a house we rented had them in a baaad way. Treating the yard helped a ton!