Recco?

[Plakespear]

Anyone have any info on the Recco reflector system? I'm thinking about buying a set, for use when skiing in inbound but hairy terrain (JHole, the Bird, etc.) I know a beacon is better, but I don't plan on skiing any BC anytime soon.

[PNWbrit]

Basically a corpse finder.

Not a beacon alternative.

Cheap.

But it can't hurt to have them.

[AltaPowderDaze]

Anyone have any info on the Recco reflector system? I'm thinking about buying a set, for use when skiing in inbound but hairy terrain (JHole, the Bird, etc.) I know a beacon is better, but I don't plan on skiing any BC anytime soon.

i have a set on both my boots (tele/alpine--1 per set of boots). they are only $20 for a set of two. you only need one on you at a time. put it on something that won't come off. on a ski or in a pack is a bad idea. i wear my beacon inbounds too if i feel the need. most resorts now use recco and it is a cheap alternative to having nothing but you'll be found more quickly with a beacon. all trollers carry a beacon. they have to get the recco sweeper from the shack before they can search with it. once they pull it out the search goes quickly.

edit for clarification of how many recco chips used

[AltaPowderDaze]

Basically a corpse finder.

i disagree with that. in an inbounds avy they will find you before the probe line picks up its first hit. trollers are quick to an accident site as they are spread out accross the resort. i think it recco is a good idea but not as good as a beacon.

[gonzo]

i disagree with that. in an inbounds avy they will find you before the probe line picks up its first hit. trollers are quick to an accident site as they are spread out accross the resort. i think it recco is a good idea but not as good as a beacon.

arc-teryx has them all high profile on the sleeves of their new line. not too fired up to see that. i think a lot of people will not understand what it is for or place too much faith in it.

[zion zig zag]

Alot of companies are putting the chips in thier gear now. You can prolly go to reccos site and find out who. Recco will also pick up cell phones and radios, but not as reliably.

Avalauncher rounds also have chips molded in so that if you shoot a dud it can be found later.

[Jumper Bones]

Alta - what's different about putting the reflectors on your boots, versus putting them on skis (where they'll fall off) - won't the reflectors fall off of the boots too?

[AltaPowderDaze]

arc-teryx has them all high profile on the sleeves of their new line. not too fired up to see that. i think a lot of people will not understand what it is for or place too much faith in it.

i agree. most clothing and i think atomic boots now have them sewn in. if people think that they are ok to step outside of the resort boundaries just because they have it, they are mistaken. there has never been a live avy recovery that was dug out by search and rescue in the utah backcounty to my knowledge. it takes too much time to get the equipment needed to a bc site, even when it is close to the resort. a beacon is your best chance and even then sometimes...

[AltaPowderDaze]

Alta - what's different about putting the reflectors on your boots, versus putting them on skis (where they'll fall off) - won't the reflectors fall off of the boots too?

skis are made to pop off in an avy and for a good reason. if the search team recovers your ski and not you then they start a probe line to recover a body. the adhesive is very strong and they are low profile enough to survive an avy still attached imo. other things such as jackets, pants, necklaces, backpacks, and helmets can be easily ripped off in a powerful avalanche.




this thread would be useful in an avalanche forum should we get one. (owens)hint hint

[Free Range Lobster]

Honestly, every little bit helps.

And at $20 I wouldn't pass them up.

[Spats]

Also if you wear a beacon inbounds, TURN IT ON. I keep reading about body recoveries where the victim had a beacon that was turned off.

Batteries are cheap and last hundreds of hours.

[snorkeldeep]

shouldnt matter where you put it from a pickup perspective, its essentially a longer range rfid tag from what ive heard about them. pretty neat idea, if you can afford the sweeper. i figure though, i paid for my beacon, might as well wear it when there is any instability.

[PNWbrit]

Also if you wear a beacon inbounds, TURN IT ON. I keep reading about body recoveries where the victim had a beacon that was turned off.

Batteries are cheap and last hundreds of hours.

I think this is primarily due to a design flaw with the Tracker. An on/off switch incorporated in the harness buckle is a far better solution.

Also as a matter of routine I put my beacon inside my boot when I load the car. That way I always have to put it on when I gear up at the parking lot and it doesn't get left behind or ride around in a pack all day.

[summit]

Summit County Rescue Group deploys our RECCO system as soon as possible (with the primary or secondary team).

Several Colorado ski resorts operate RECCO.

More and more clothing and equipment come with reflectors: Atomic, Sessions, Bonfire, etc... there's talk of assuring RECCO always goes out with the first team.

It's another tool.

Search posts:
Recco Rescue System?
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?p=76157
I put some technical stuff in there IIRC.

[Meathelmet]

I think this is primarily due to a design flaw with the Tracker. An on/off switch incorporated in the harness buckle is a far better solution.

Two bladed sword. 2 friends have broken the harness buckle switch in their
Ortovox M1/M2 during falls...

And accidentaly turning off the tracker underneath you clothes would be extremely impropable.(Tight revolving switch)

Though there are known cases where people have accidentaly gotten
the transreciever (first generation ?) to "search" mode when the transreciever
was being pushed against a jacket button while bowing down.

arc-teryx has them all high profile on the sleeves of their new line. not too fired up to see that. i think a lot of people will not understand what it is for or place too much faith in it.

And some of the stiches from my jacket have allready ripped because the thingy have cought some branches in the woods...Nice design hiccup from arcteryx.Why the hell didnt they put it inside the jacket.And it looks
damn jongish to wear on the street...

Edit: Psuhfingermonger...

[Spats]

I think this is primarily due to a design flaw with the Tracker. An on/off switch incorporated in the harness buckle is a far better solution.

I've seen broken Ortovox switches. The harness can put a lot of force on that plastic switch.

I like the Barryvox solution best: make the on/off switch stick up a bunch when off, so it pokes you in the ribs. When it's on, it's flush with the case and you need to do this funky pull/squeeze to turn it off. I can't imagine how you'd do that by accident.

Plus you have to push the button three times to put it in Search. It's tough to do that by accident. It's easy to push a button once, as I've found when my car remote (in my pocket) magically locks my door because I bent over to pick something up.

[BakerBoy]

Basically a corpse finder.

Not a beacon alternative.

Cheap.

But it can't hurt to have them.

^^^ Read this plakespear. It's like buying a $5 used helmet -- it might work, but there's a decent chance it won't... and if it doesn't, well... By the time patrol gets out to an avy victim with a Recco searcher, your time is probably up. But if your life isn't worth the price of a beacon, and you don't want to bother with the training or learning how to identify and avoid most avalances, then it definitely won't hurt to have stuff with Recco.

BTW, if you're getting jackets and pants ripped off in an avy, you probably have a lot more things to worry about than if your Recco's are still around.

[subtle plague]

i second (or can you say thrird ? ) the corpse recovery.
no one here in europe "uses" it although most resorts claim to have it.
It just takes too long to get the search thing to you and the search unit is really huge.

[summit]

i second (or can you say thrird ? ) the corpse recovery.
no one here in europe "uses" it although most resorts claim to have it.
It just takes too long to get the search thing to you and the search unit is really huge.

The search unit, while considerably larger than a beacon, is rather light weight (I've used one on an avalanche mission). Although after a long while you get annoyed about waving it around and around.

As far as taking too long to get the RECCO unit to the scene, well it was never meant to be a replacement for companion rescue with a beacon. However, if SAR or Ski Patrol reaches the scene while a search is still underway, RECCO coul d end up being a life saver. It's another tool and it is one that costs nothing and weighs nothing for the wearer.

[AltaPowderDaze]

With a RECCO® detector, the search action can be very quick, thanks to its directionality. RECCO® is a complement to other search methods used today, such as avalanche dogs, transceivers, probes etc.

Recco

i'll post any other testing/real life situational info i find later.

[Ripzalot]

summit, i remember this one from last season....i'm curious, did you have any success stories (or even a non-success story) with RECCO?

some more info on RECCO:
statistics have shown that avalanche deaths in Europe have stayed about the same in spite of widespread use of recco. even more worrysome, is that recsue workers in davos switzerland prefer DOGS to the recco system. when it comes down to it, it's the first 15 minutes that matter most. if the ski patrol can't get there in 15 minutes or doesn't even know about the avalanche, no help. that means the people you are skiing with. that means beacons.

if you want something that will REALLY save your life (in addition to a beacon), spend a little extra on an avalung and/or ABS pack. the ABS packs have a good record: only 1 fatality in 36 recorded deployments. and the avalung will increase your survival time under the snow to an hour, giving searchers the precious extra time to locate and extract you. this is really what matters most.

again, my $.02


hat tip: pistehors.com
http://www.pistehors.com/articles/av...e/survival.htm
http://www.pistehors.com/articles/av...che_rescue.htm
http://www.pistehors.com/articles/av...abs-airbag.htm

[Ripzalot]

Recco

i'll post any other testing/real life situational info i find later.

you would think they would post some success stories on their website.

[summit]

summit, i remember this one from last season....i'm curious, did you have any success stories (or even a non-success story) with RECCO?

Only one opportunity.
Called to an avalanche with tracks in no tracks out for possible buried snowmobile. Avalanche was clearly too shallow to bury a bile completely. Beacon, hasty and scuff search completed and dogs and Recco were deployed to make sure there was nobody buried.

if you want something that will REALLY save your life (in addition to a beacon), spend a little extra on an avalung and/or ABS pack.

Both of these increase your chances in different ways... as for a little more money... Avalung II $115 (I intend to get one). ABS pack: $800+ (heavy, too small to be a usefull BC pack).

[Lurch]

ABS pack: $800+ (heavy, too small to be a usefull BC pack).

They have a good line up in Europe. Now that Life Link has signed up for North America Distro. We might be seeing a better line of ABS bags on this side of the pond.

[Meathelmet]

ABS pack: $800+ (heavy, too small to be a usefull BC pack).

Life link has 3 different sizes at the moment,Proline,Plus and Rando, 15L,30L and 60(?)L. How is 30 or 60L too small for you?
The average weight difference is a bit over 2 pounds(cartridge and mechnaism weights about 1.5lbs and strengthening 1lbs or so), so that shouldn´t be an issue.If it is, hitting gym could be appropriate.

And it does have a quite good "success" statistics.

http://wa.slf.ch/unfaelle/unfallstatistik-en.pdf

Chapter 6.

People are buying 600$ skis every year but considers a 500$ "backpack" too expensive buy every 10 years. Go figure.