2011/2012 Canadian Rockies Roll Call and StokeThread...

[RODGERS]

Ok... Jong!!! But really utube every third thursday. Check out the paintball video. And try telling yourself you dont wont one!!!!

[f2f]

rodgers, save the spam for the armageddon. we're not hungry.

[goldenshowers]

Did Kicking Horse really get as much as they're reporting?

100cm in 48hrs?!

I think so, with the amount of rain in town it had to be puking up there. My wife and I are going to be touring up there this Sat and Sun, I'll let you know.

[Eldo]

Good blog post on the CAC website.

Post Storm Risk Management Strategy - Karl Klassen, November 23 2011
I think it’s pretty clear things are touchy right now. Size 3s hitting valley bottom in the Columbias, 3.5s logging mature timber and extending trimlines in the Lizard Range, lots of snow, rain, wind, and warm temperatures. The season is starting with a bang. And, while I’m sure everyone is hunkered down sitting this one out or staying out of avalanche terrain—right? I know we’re all excited about getting out there and hitting it when the storm ends and the weather clears. Before you do that though, I’d like to talk a bit about how to approach the mountains after a big storm like the one we’re in now.

After the storm ends, there are a number of weather scenarios that could play out and how they affect stability will be different depending on the character of the snowpack. Please keep in mind that what follows is generalization. It’s intended to educate and inform you about how things work and help you develop big picture strategies rather than give you a recipe for deciding which slope to ride when.

Everyone recognizes that big storms are usually associated with big avalanche cycles. The question is how to get out there after the storm ends and maintain adequate levels of risk. How long instability will persist after a storm has to do primarily with temperatures and settlement. The effects of both are different in the short term than the long term. Warm temperatures promote settling, which is a good thing—it leads to a more uniform, strong snowpack with fewer layers and better bonding between the layers. This takes some time. In the short term, warmer temperatures mean weaker bonds between snow grains and snow layers (the snow is less frozen, so to speak). Cold temperatures promote stronger bonds between grains and layers (the snow is essentially more frozen) which is a good thing. This is a short term good thing however because cold temperatures inhibit settling so it takes longer to get a nice, solid, uniform snowpack if indeed you ever get there. Following are some scenarios to illustrate my point and hopefully help you when you go out into the mountains after a storm ends.

A warm (say -2, -3 degrees C) storm followed by cold weather (-6ish to -10 or so): You’ll see rapid stabilization of the warm snowpack and a fairly quick end to natural avalanche activity. Human triggering persists for a short while then becomes progressively more difficult. This is often referred to as “tightening” as in “the snowpack is tightening up.” If the cold deepens (say to -20) and lasts, all avalanche activity is likely to cease. However, weak layers in the snowpack are not settling and bonding. In fact, they may be getting weaker, and everything is held in place only by the strong, frozen bonds in the snow above the weak layer. When the weather changes, say it warms and the frozen bonds in that upper layer weaken again or it snows some more and adds load, these weak layers sometimes “reactivate” and you see another round of avalanche activity before settlement and bonding finally does away with the weak layer.

In this scenario, don’t get fooled by the initial rapid cessation of avalanche activity. Wait for a while until you are sure things have stabilized. This generally takes two or three days depending on how warm the initial conditions were, how cold the subsequent cold spell is, and the nature of the weak layers in the snowpack. Be wary of large or steep slopes with high consequences when you start to push out. Most importantly, be prepared to pull back in when the weather breaks so you don’t get caught by surprise if a lingering weak layer reactivates.

A cold storm followed by warm weather: You’ll likely see avalanche activity continue or even increase after the storm ends. This is often accompanied by “upside down” conditions where warmer, more settled, and more cohesive snow lies over colder, less dense layers making for difficult trail-breaking. In relatively short order (say 36-48 hours) avalanches in the upper part of the snowpack will generally stop. If there are weak layers deeper in the snowpack, they will continue to be a problem for longer but if conditions stay warm without more storm activity, deeper layers settle and bond eventually. How long this takes depends on various factors such as the characteristics of the deep weak layer and how far below the surface lies.

In this scenario, wait 48-60 hours to let the storm snow instabilities settle out then cautiously move into steeper, more aggressive terrain, starting with smaller, lower consequence slopes. Ensure there are no lingering deep instabilities before venturing into larger, steeper, more complex terrain features.

Cold storm followed by cold weather: More than likely activity will taper off slowly regardless of whether it’s a storm instability or a deeper layer at play. Plan to wait longer than normal before starting to poke out into more aggressive terrain; several days or a week for storm related instabilities and longer, of course, if a deeper more persistent instability is the player.

Warm storm followed by warm weather: This is a typical coastal situation. Intense avalanche activity during the storm to essentially bombproof conditions in 12-24 hours or so. (Barring deep instabilities of course). Wait 24-36 hours then check things out by starting on smaller low consequence slopes.

These are, of course, simplistic scenarios and real situations are often much more complex and involve characteristics of more than one of these snowpack, storm, or post-storm scenarios. Hopefully this brief overview helps improve your ability to understand CAC warning service products and aids you in managing your risk in the mountains.

You can send comments or questions about this article directly to me.

Karl Klassen, Manager
Public Avalanche Warning Service
Canadian Avalanche Centre
kklassen@avalanche.ca

[Lamothe]

thanks for posting that. Its a good read and really simplifies things.

on a side note , did marmot seriously get 24inches last night or is the top snowfall thing just outa whack?

[saxon]

just looking at the webcams today and yesterday, there's no way they got that much overnight.

[mntlion]

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[theshredder]

thanks for posting that. Its a good read and really simplifies things.

on a side note , did marmot seriously get 24inches last night or is the top snowfall thing just outa whack?

They're saying 62 cm in the last 3 days so maybe TGR's autofeed thing is getting the wrong numbers. I think they got 40 the night before last. I'm a little skeptical but its not totally out of the ordinary for marmot to get dumped on when it chinooks. Pretty sure even nakiska got buckets of rain out of that last round of chinooks and further north it was probably all snow. (This next system looks like fun. High freezing levels; Lots of precip, even up North. Environment Canada was forecasting rain in Jasper on Sunday which is rare.)

Edit to Add: Fortress would be the place to be if it was still open. I bet that place got 4 feet in the last few days.....

[Lamothe]

They're saying 62 cm in the last 3 days so maybe TGR's autofeed thing is getting the wrong numbers. I think they got 40 the night before last. I'm a little skeptical but its not totally out of the ordinary for marmot to get dumped on when it chinooks. Pretty sure even nakiska got buckets of rain out of that last round of chinooks and further north it was probably all snow. (This next system looks like fun. High freezing levels; Lots of precip, even up North. Environment Canada was forecasting rain in Jasper on Sunday which is rare.)

Edit to Add: Fortress would be the place to be if it was still open. I bet that place got 4 feet in the last few days.....

so whats the deal with fortress anyways. I hear it my reopen and there is work being done at the moment. If so i guess that means plowed road but what im getting at is, is touring frowned upon at fortress?

[Singel]

Decent day at the lake (really can't complain in November). Paradise never opened, but there were so few people good snow was plentiful. Snowing and windy much of the day too.

Only hit one rock, and it was in an obviously boney spot off Ptarmigan.

[Shadam]

This an official call out to Huckin eh?

surely the man is surfing those toons all over Lake Lousy.
rumour has it he has already toured rogers pass.

[repete]

After spending the last month and a half in my own little piece of hell I got my first day in at the Lake today. Yup, contracting a chronic stomach condition is no fun (and quite disgusting). Thanks to boatloads of daily pills I somehow dragged my way out there.

Only managed a handful of runs before I was spent. I think I spent as much time driving as I did skiing but considering the condition I was in several weeks ago it's quite the leap forward. Both my health and the coverage at the Lake look promising, it'll take some time before I can really get back in the game so by that time I hope more snow has come our way and I can reconnect with those I know and maybe make new connections along the way.

Considering it's not uncommon to be able to take a lawn chair out to the World Cup I would say things are shaping up nicely at the hill.

[theshredder]

so whats the deal with fortress anyways. I hear it my reopen and there is work being done at the moment. If so i guess that means plowed road but what im getting at is, is touring frowned upon at fortress?

Frowned upon.... whatever....

A friend of mine toured up there a couple of years ago and it was completely deserted he said. I heard from another guy on a chairlift that they might re-open fortress as some kind of private club... I don't know what the deal is. RCR kept Nakiska open and closed fortress. It should have been the other way around imo.. But maintaining two hills when you could corner the market and forced everyone to ski at one is probably a non-brainer for all the money hungry office staff over at RCR. I still give them my money once in a while but I don't think they made many fans when they shut down fortress. (Then again there were a couple of really shitty years in a row and they probably lost money before they closed it. Plus a lot of people were talking about how climate change was wiping out the industry...hind sight is 2020 I guess.)

[time2clmb]

This an official call out to Huckin eh?

surely the man is surfing those toons all over Lake Lousy.
rumour has it he has already toured rogers pass.

Spoke with him on facebook, think he's back at work now for a bit. Funny cause Sentinel and Buttscratcher (Backscratcher) were out at Grizz the same day he was and neither knew. Has he even posted in this years roll call thread at all?

it'll take some time before I can really get back in the game so by that time I hope more snow has come our way and I can reconnect with those I know and maybe make new connections along the way.

Was wondering where you've been hiding out. Let me know if you want to hit LL for a bit next Thurs. Going to take it easy there and hit up KH for preview.

[repete]

Was wondering where you've been hiding out. Let me know if you want to hit LL for a bit next Thurs. Going to take it easy there and hit up KH for preview.

Well I got plenty of time for skiing, just not a lot of strength for it. I think I took as much catching my breath as I did actually skiing. Waiting for the EI medical claim to go through as my bank account slowly dwindles away.

As for Fortress; people have skinned up there. I'm not really sure if the new owners mind or not, I'm not aware of the legalities of what the use of the land are. This fall I biked up the road for a solitary hike and at the end of the day the workers passed me as I was just getting back to the car. They just drove past without question, I'm not sure if anyone cares in the winter. There are signs all over informing the public about a cat ski operation in the works, for Dec. 2013 if I recall. It'll be awhile.

[theshredder]

Did they fix the bridge going up to fortress? When did it get new owners?

[f2f]

Did they fix the bridge going up to fortress?

they did it when suddenly leonardo di caprio had to make a movie there brought millions to the local economy.

[Eldo]

So many reasons why Snow Ridge/Fortress went out of business about four times. No reason why it should return.

[theshredder]

they did it when suddenly leonardo di caprio had to make a movie there brought millions to the local economy.

I still haven't even seen that.... I suppose we all owe hollywood a big thank you, for fixing our bridge, and for awesome movies.

Snow ridge huh.. That must have been before my time. Why wouldn't you want to see it reopen Eldo? It's like you think its cursed or something.

Edit to Add; I'm gonna go see inception!

[Northskiwards]

Fortress had a plan last year to put in 4 quads and completely redo all the buildings. The total cost was going to be north of 50 million. There were trying to get financing but I'm not sure if that went through. When the movie Inception was being filmed the bridge was rebuilt except siderailings were not put on it so it can't be opened to the public. They also said that as an intern measure they might put in a cat ski operation but I'm not sure if that would make financial sense either. Last year the road was plowed off and on as they shot a commercial there and the avalanche courses too. Last I heard anything was in march.

[f2f]

the bridge was zrinko's downfall. people had paid for season passes and the gubmint said "we won't fix it". the new guys may have better luck. or not.

here are the new owners' website. theshredder, see if you can squeeze any more info out of it:

http://www.skifortress.com/

[f2f]

hey, some historical perspective, HAH!

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...tress-09-14-05

[Westslope]

I miss Fortress...

Powder days there were always exciting on the far side, not much for rocks but lots of logs and stumps just a little under the surface.

Fuckin windy a lot of the time though.

Also loved the 70's lodge with the round fireplace. Good memories.

[theshredder]

If they ever do re-open it I'll be there. (Heck I'll head up anyway. I've got some awesome memories from that place.)

[powslut]

the bridge was zrinko's downfall. people had paid for season passes and the gubmint said "we won't fix it". the new guys may have better luck. or not.

here are the new owners' website. theshredder, see if you can squeeze any more info out of it:

http://www.skifortress.com/

Reliable source told me recently they're still moving towards reopening.

On another note it was a great day at Louise. Absolute amateur hour on Larch when it opened allowed us to have 7 laps of pretty much fresh tracks on Lynx.