New DB ski owners....

[treewell]

In reality there are almost no 2004-2005 db skis on the slopes. Has anyone seen a pair? How many? Where?

Yes, Surreal 185cm on my feet mounted tele w/ HH. Larry at Larry's boot fitting in Boulder got a pair in March and mounted w/ Freeride. Seen several other pair on the slopes.

Ski is awesome. There were a number of changes to layup that resulted in delays. Demand was through the roof and supply quite limited.

I've heard they'll be building a big backlog for next season. Doubt it will be enough once people start to experience the ski. Everyone who's tried my skis has already ordered a pair. So I put my name on the waiting list for the R and hope to have for summer 14ner season.

As soon as db realized there'd be a problem they offered everyone a refund. I chose to wait and am glad I did.

[KANUTTEN]

I know, I know, but I still wouldn't let them keep your money the entire summer hoping against hope they get their act together

I can only imagine how you'll rant if they decide to close up shop

geesh, at least take the financial risk out of it

If everyone asks for a refund they might go belly up.

Me no want belly up, me want ski!

[snorkeldeep]

If everyone asks for a refund they might go belly up.

Me no want belly up, me want ski!

moi aussi

[Arno]

Well, this has just turned up in my inbox:

[quote]dear db customers

it has been again a very frustrating season for us here. a lot of things
have not worked out like they should have. therefore we (cyrille boinay,
roman grossrieder, rikard hellqvist and mike o'neill) have decided to split
from goode ski technologies as our production partner. we had big
differences in the management team on how to run the company.

we never wanted to move production from michigan to china and are tired of
hearing from production and quality problems in china and the big delivery
delays resulting of them.

the internal communication between us here in europe and our people in the
usa, including goode ski technologies, our production partner, has not
worked. we have been left in the dark until today on what the exact reasons
are for the big delivery delays. we have heard dozens of unprofessional
promises concerning production, quality and communication improvements and
have seen no progress and performance from our partners in the usa just like
last year.

we have started dbskis.com to fulfill the skiers need of a high performance
ski produced in an ethically and socially sustainable environment. we feel
very bad we have created expectations on your side and have not been able to
meet them with our services and products.

we are now focusing on a new production project here in europe and found a
really professional and experienced carbon and composites manufacturer.
together, we have already changed and improved the construction of the skis
and have innovative ideas on how to stronger integrate our sales reps and
customers into a new organisation. the start-up of this new project will
take some more time, but we will keep you updated throughout the next weeks
on what is going on.

thanks for all the support and positive words we got from you the past two
years. this gives us the energy and motivation to continue our adventure,
but only on a much more professional level. we wish stephan drake and our
other usa counterparts all the best for their future.

ski on!

cyrille boinay, roman grossrieder, rikard hellqvist and mike o'neill


ps: we will come out with a redesigned tabla rasa-like model in 194cm for
2005 and reservations can be sent to administration@dbskis.com at the
moment. [quote]

sounds like some of the earlier comments about Goode may have had something in them

[wolverine]

And if you get your TR's you will be very very happy.
Unfortunetely it didn't happened. No fresh new from DB'S team as they promised to do... Very quiet boys

[skier666]

That's pretty funny...

"....ummm no, we still don't have your skis...and probably never will"

to....."preorder the new Tablas now!"

[SquawMan]

That's pretty funny...

"....ummm no, we still don't have your skis...and probably never will"

to....."preorder the new Tablas now!"

they even changed the shape for next year!

it's going from invisible to visible hopefully

[skiguide]

I think that email raises more questions than it answers.

[El Chupacabra]

I guess they'll just be called "Boinay" skis now.

[the_eleven]

[QUOTE=Arno]Well, this has just turned up in my inbox:


At least you got an email.

All I have is a big charge on my credit card bill. From October.

[Uma]

I have friends in Jackson who ordered db skis. I heard a thousand pair were preordered. That's almost a million dollars. If the company split up, who has everyone's money?

d, b, or goode?

[runethechamp]

I have friends in Jackson who ordered db skis. I heard a thousand pair were preordered. That's almost a million dollars. If the company split up, who has everyone's money?

d, b, or goode?

Uh-oh. Time to try to get your money back before everybody else.

[wolverine]

Maybe 1000 pairs ordered but not so much with a credit bill cashed by DB. Anyway it looks like "get out of the car before it crash very bad"...Or here's the avalanche!
A lot of questions without answers and at this time or reorganization it might be long before manufacturing is set. I just give up and wish good luck. End of transmission...
See you next year same place same time. Have a "good night" folkls!

[Arno]

In fairness to them, I also got a mail saying that I really ought to take the money back option. It's a shame but I'll probably take up the offer now but still put my name on the list for the skis if they ever get made.

I think the email I quoted does answer some questions. However, I expect they have to be a little careful what they say. Just slagging off Goode etc etc doesn't look very professional and may get them sued!

I would love to know the real inside story on this - maybe I'll just have to hang around Engleburg and buy Cyrille a few drinks

[chskier]

Hmmm. I wonder why I didn't get that email?

[splat]

In fairness to them, I also got a mail saying that I really ought to take the money back option. It's a shame but I'll probably take up the offer now but still put my name on the list for the skis if they ever get made.

I think the email I quoted does answer some questions. However, I expect they have to be a little careful what they say. Just slagging off Goode etc etc doesn't look very professional and may get them sued!

I would love to know the real inside story on this - maybe I'll just have to hang around Engleburg and buy Cyrille a few drinks

It saddens me that things have not come together as planned for Cyrille and Stephan. I appreciate their approach and their innovation.
I believe they broke the 'composites barrier' in skiing and could well be heralded as the Chuck Yeagers of the sport for their breakthrough in ski design. If there's anything we can do to help them, PM Gear is offering.

[KANUTTEN]

Just for everybodys information: I received an e-mail from Roman at dbskis this last saturday. He informs that the european team of db splits up from the US counterparty. The european "arm" are planning a new company, the US "arm" plans to continue an operation (Drake and Goode). But as far as I understand, the dbskis.com brand/company will not survive this split up.

I hope this change will lead to some very good boards being made!

[db.2]

Stephan here, back off the sled. I was on a book project that I was locked into- one that was planned a year in advance. It had outside investment and sponsorship and was depending on a small group of us. The plans for the trip were made foreseeing db as humming along during the 04-05 season and that those in the network would be able to pick up the slack. Instead, it coincided perfectly with the production shortfall of 04-05, and now...corporate meltdown.

Communication-wise, I apologize for the lack of information. We have never intended to holdback information or conceal anything. Rather, the plan to be as transparent with information as possible. It was rather a lack of pertinent and up-to-date information on our own end. We had setup this business to run with its members as satellite entities, who depended on a steady information stream from the manufacturing side in case of delays. There is no question that GOODE lagged in the satellite information flow process, and everyone involved in the project will attest to it. There is also no question that db could have benefitted from a full-time presence at the manufacturing facility- where I am right now.

Building pure carbon fiber skis and translating those skis into a robust production is not an easy project. It's a tall mountain to climb. When we signed on with GOODE in the beginning, it was my feeling that we had joined a partnership that would allow us to make a groundbreaking move in skiing from both a technological and shaping perspective, and I still wholeheartedly believe this. There were a lot of challenges and learning mistakes that have been made along the way, and unfortunately our customers have had to suffer through those with us. It's created an unexpected nightmare and premature balding for everyone, but having great belief in this project and the work being done here, I know we are just about to turn the corner toward something really sweet.

The North American side of db will continue to build and develop what I feel are the highest performing skis made today. The current Swiss side of db grew weary of the process and frustrations of the climb, and is off to start their own venture, the details of which, will I am sure unfold shortly. Ultimately, there will be two different companies in operation in the near future. Stay tuned on that front, as it's unfolding right now.

We have solved a number of construction issues through the course of this year and are gearing up a strong, consistent output, with skis that have progressively improved over the course of the season. A dozen skis have recently shipped, and we have the capacity to start building over 100 pairs a month within the next few weeks. We will be up and running with a relaunch of stock by the beginning of summer.

It's the first priority of everyone involved in the old db project to make sure that everyone with a current open order is fully taken care of, whether they wish to hang out a bit longer for the delivery of their skis or act on the refund option. Nobody will lose their money, and those with refunds requests will be made whole ASAP. If you are a North American customer with an order that is still open (i will be contacting you shortly anyway) feel free to email me, stephan@dbskis.com with any questions, further authorizations for refunds, or to hold your order in the existing lineup. For those North American customers who have requested refunds to the European email administration account, but have not heard back, it will take about a week for your refund to reflect on your c.c. statement because the funds are currently being transferred from a Swiss to US account, and will be refunded using that US account- I apologize for that; it's going as fast as we can make the international wire system go. For those who chose to remain in the lineup, I feel quite confident that skis will be delivered in the early summer (I know, obviously not when you want them) and am working here on-site to make sure that deadlines are met from the production end.

Again, I really apologize for the frustration from both a communication and delivery standpoint. We should have a 1-800 number up and running within a week, which beyond email, will give everyone instant access to what's going on. I am confident things will turn for the better shortly in this carbon ski adventure, and once it does, I am optimistic that it will be a good ride.

Again, apologetically, Stephan

edit for typos.

[Mikey]

Stephan, great to see your post. Just wanted to wish yourself and Dave all the best for the future – I’ve no doubt that you’ll get the production side of things sorted sooner rather than later. Hopefully the two sides of DB will go on to make the best skis in the market and pioneer the carbon revolution.
All the best,

Mike

[KANUTTEN]

Just a couple of question;

1. will the db brand continue to exist, and if yes, who will have the rights to the brand?

2. are there any patents on the skis, and if yes, who will have the ownership of the patents?

Good luck to both the american and european effort!

[romanski]

hey, roman (the administration dude) from dbskis here. sometimes it is hard to face the truth. in our case, i think, there is no other way than accepting it and sharing it with our customers, who have supported us through all of this.

i am not happy with stephan’s post on this forum. i am not writing here to start a war about the past of dbskis.com. my goal is to simply get some points straight here.

cyrille and me, together with mike and rikard, decided to split from goode as a production partner because of different reasons:

a) production capability
until today we only got 69 pairs of skis out for the 2004/2005 season, which is very poor looking at the production start in august/september 2004. we have cancelled close to 200 orders now. goode had promised us in january us a continued production throughout the season until 1'000 pairs are produced.

b) communication problems
we expected goode to communicate strongly with us about the production problems and the progress there. the result was the opposite. after a bunch of wrong promises for ski deliveries, we got almost no more information from them. we felt like not being taken for serious (partners) anymore.

c) quality issues
the quality of the skis delivered has decreased throughout the season, not increased. out of these 69 pairs delivered , we already have a proud number of 16 warranty cases (23%), mostly broken or delaminated skis. we cut a broken ski in pieces and found out, there was no kevlar sheet between the base and core of the ski as shown in our construction and arranged with goode. this is no base for us to continue. our goal was to come out with „the perfect ski“, and we believe this is not possible together with goode.

upon the decision of the european db team to split from goode, stephan decided to continue working with goode. so in the end, it looks like a europe/usa split. but the reasons for this are not found in geography, but in production and quality issues goode was not able to solve.

so there will be two new companies on the carbon ski market soon, not just a new company in europe like stephan put it down.

i felt like this information should get out now before more rumors will make their way.

roman

[Core Shot]

Goode sucks

Man, they really, really suck.
Only 69 pairs?
23% defective de-lam?
layup not per contract specs?
Goode really really really sucks!


Hope you guys can recover.
Best wishes for next season and your new production solution.

[lph]

So, Roman, since you didn't like Stephan's post you decided to post about how poorly Goode performed. Not only did they not meet your expectations in number of skis produced, but also in the quality of the skis that was produced ( ie missing kevlar, high warranty rate). I am sure the few people who have recieved their skis are really happy to hear this news now.

You then go on to say that the split was secondary to Stephan deciding to stay with Goode, whom you just trashed.

I am sure Stephan will really be happy with your post as you are basically raising questions about whether or not Stephan and Goode will even be able to produce a decent ski.

I have only chimed in, because after reading his post, which you are "not happy with", and your post, it seems to me that your post is much more inflammatory and much more likely to negatively affect the future of Stephan's ski company.

It is one thing to keep customers informed, but airing dirty laundry in a public forum is probably not a great idea, IMVHO.

[skiguide]

and your post, it seems to me that your post is much more inflammatory and much more likely to negatively affect the future of Stephan's ski company.

It is one thing to keep customers informed, but airing dirty laundry in a public forum is probably not a great idea, IMVHO.

good point, LPH - i'd be concerned with legal implications of it...

[Tri-Ungulate]

lph-

OTOH Roman is not flinging wild accusations, rather he is stating facts regarding what has come to light in the wake of the current production fiasco. Unless he's lying through his teeth (or keyboard) which I sincerely doubt, the implications of these facts cannot be ignored.

As for the "not happy" part, well, perhaps there was a bit of frustration as Stephen's post elided to said production problems without actually specifying the serious nature of them. Perhaps Roman believed that the prior post indirectly implied that the Euro side of the company left for more-or-less specious reasons, and believed that the customers had a right to know the details.

Roman will likely have to clear these semantics up himself, but note that he did mention that he didn't post in order to start a flamewar, more to set the record straight as far as the facts on the ground that led to the Europeans dissatisfaction and subsequent defection. Perhaps he doesn't transmit the nuance well on the bb, as English is not his first language (one of five he deals with).