New DB ski owners....

[Mikey]

No problem. Apologies on the news front. Will get onto the guys to get something out to you all in the near future. Everyones just working so hard that it's been a bit of an oversight.

Thanks for your patience though. If you've any further questions just drop me a mail at mike@dbskis.com and i'll try and get you a heads up. In Jackson at the moment though on my hols, so probably won't have an update for a 10 days or so.

Cheers,

Mikey

[KANUTTEN]

Tomorrow is the first day in february, so I thought an update would be in line. Mikey (or anyone else in the know) do you know what is going on?

[SquawMan]

My guess is that Goode won't produce skis for them without the cash upfront and since DB is a bare bones operation / start-up, they may be having trouble ponying up the cash to kick production into high gear and make it worthwhile for Goode, so they end up trickling them out

start-ups never admit what the real problems are to customers, they just string them along as far as possible until they can solve them

as always, new purchasers should post their reviews here for those of us who are lurking and don't want to go through hell for the skis

I was thinking of Surreals for next year but the new Volkl 2006 line-up and the potential quality issues for DB & risk of them going under is making the Volkl's look much better right now

[Mikey]

Apologies guys but no new updates as i'm still away from home. I can assure you though that DB has no money issues and that we're all working as hard as possible to output the skis.

We've tried to be as open and honest as possible in our communication with customers and have at no point attempted to 'string anyone along'. For the record all of our customers can at any point receive a full refund if they don't want to wait for their skis.

It's well known that we have had problems with our production this year. Goode switched factory facility and then we've had issues finding the correct temperatures to bond the base material to the core on the TR and Surreal models. Given that durability/quality is our main priority, we're making sure that the skis we send out are perfect and in no way rushed through.

As soon as i've any news i'll post it here.

[KANUTTEN]

Thanks Mikey. Looking fwd

[SquawMan]

Apologies guys but no new updates as i'm still away from home. I can assure you though that DB has no money issues and that we're all working as hard as possible to output the skis.

We've tried to be as open and honest as possible in our communication with customers and have at no point attempted to 'string anyone along'. For the record all of our customers can at any point receive a full refund if they don't want to wait for their skis.

It's well known that we have had problems with our production this year. Goode switched factory facility and then we've had issues finding the correct temperatures to bond the base material to the core on the TR and Surreal models. Given that durability/quality is our main priority, we're making sure that the skis we send out are perfect and in no way rushed through.

As soon as i've any news i'll post it here.

not being able to properly bond base material to core is a major concern for long term durability and I don't know how DB can solve that problem and assure long term durability this season without testing and retesting and beating up the skis for several months before shipping them to customers

even if you had a perfect pair right now, you'd need to test the heck out of them to assure that the materials don't come undone with constant stress

skiers who buy DB's are taking them to extreme environments, not the local ski mountain, so bombproof durability has to be assured and new purchasers shouldn't be the guinea pigs for testing them

skiing in inherently dangerous and having just come off a scary binding pre-release a few weeks back, I can attest to how important equipment reliability is

make sure you guys at DB do the right thing by your customers because the word will spread fast, either good or bad

[Tri-Ungulate]

Man, I hope nobody gives up on these guys....I saw Lawrence on them (TRs) at Alta and he had nothing but glowing reports even though they are longer than what he would normally ski(he got em used and grabbed em).

Yeah, but now I'm thinking , due to their light weight that 186cm is all right after all - when I'd originally been worried about their length, I'd been thinking along the lines of my old Head Monsters, which were great fun, but felt like bricks underfoot and felt like barges to turn unless I was going mach 5. The Tablas are so featherweight and quick (for such behemoths) that they respond on command, even for a flyweight like myself on tele-gear, regardless of the width/length.

This years new Tabla design seems like enough of an improvement on an already-great ski that I'm already thinking of getting another pair someday, though I'll prolly go for a pair of Surreals first, for touring versatility.

But first, I gotta come up with some more $$.

And a friend here in SLC who ordered his db's last Oct got 'em early last week and is happily skiing on them. More are forthcoming, as Mike mentioned, as the bottleneck seems opened. From what I could gather from Cyrille, production problems had to do (in part) with Goode not being as used to the process of bonding the carbon/kevlar layers rather than the carbon-only design they use in their own skis. Plus, there's the move of the production facilities from MI (?) to UT.

I think it's pretty admirable that db made certain the skis were done right rather than done fast, and after seeing how even more conventionally manufactured skis like the BroModels required painstaking effort to get to market, I can definitely understand.

[comish]

Tri...

Did you get to try all the DB's in Suisse??? Enquiring minds want to know your thoughts???

Have you posted a TR from your trip yet?

[KANUTTEN]

Your friend who has received his skis; was that the Surreal or Tabla Rasa? It did say here on this post that the Surreals have come far and were starting to ship and arrive. Also Mikey said that some of the Tablas have shipped, but indicated that that was for last years top-sheet warranty customers. I wonder if some "ordinary" Tabla customers have started to receive skis.

Also I guess if skis are produced and shipped, the bonding issue has been resolved. So it is all a question of letting the assembly line go at mach speed. Or?

I really really really want to receive my skis before my La Grave trip towards the end of this month...

[Tri-Ungulate]

Have you posted a TR from your trip yet?

Working on it, in my spare time, but have tons 'o work to catch up on.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Your friend who has received his skis; was that the Surreal or Tabla Rasa? It did say here on this post that the Surreals have come far and were starting to ship and arrive. Also Mikey said that some of the Tablas have shipped, but indicated that that was for last years top-sheet warranty customers. I wonder if some "ordinary" Tabla customers have started to receive skis.

Also I guess if skis are produced and shipped, the bonding issue has been resolved. So it is all a question of letting the assembly line go at mach speed. Or?

I really really really want to receive my skis before my La Grave trip towards the end of this month...

They were the R's, which I think were not immune to the layup problems Goode encountered, but got figured out a bit earlier. I know for certain that the Surreals and the Tablas are in production with good results, and that the issues have been resolved - but I got a look at what was probably the first batch out when I was in Switzerland a coupla weeks ago. For "ordinary" TR customers, I imagine they can't be too far behind. Actually kinda curious about therir decision, because replacing skis with screwed up topsheets having precedence over this year's customers patiently waiting seems a bit wierd, since topsheets aside, last year's customers still have something to ski on.

As for "mach speed" production, considering the length of time it takes to make each ski (as opposed to standard designs) it might not be tout de suite, but certainly ASAP. From what little I can gather, Cyrille and Roman seemed pretty comfortable about having many if not most of the orders fulfilled by the end of this month, but you might want to drop a line to one of them mentioning your semi-deadline.

La Grave needs a bit more snow if you don't want to destroy 'em first time out - I didn't bring my Tablas there 'cause I was too scared to hash 'em and think I made the right decision after hacking my Dyna Nobis's up - also see bad_roo's example with his m103s.

[KANUTTEN]

Thanks for info, Tri-Ungulate (did I get the name right now?)

[snorkeldeep]

any chance you'll have any of the stiffest tablas done in the next week?

[KANUTTEN]

Any chance of getting some news??

Going crazy...

[the_eleven]

I hope that no news isn't bad news.

If any of these skis start falling apart, db will have a hard time surviving.

If I were them, I would make sure that they ship solid product.

[splat]

not being able to properly bond base material to core is a major concern for long term durability and I don't know how DB can solve that problem and assure long term durability this season without testing and retesting and beating up the skis for several months before shipping them to customers

even if you had a perfect pair right now, you'd need to test the heck out of them to assure that the materials don't come undone with constant stress

skiers who buy DB's are taking them to extreme environments, not the local ski mountain, so bombproof durability has to be assured and new purchasers shouldn't be the guinea pigs for testing them

skiing in inherently dangerous and having just come off a scary binding pre-release a few weeks back, I can attest to how important equipment reliability is

make sure you guys at DB do the right thing by your customers because the word will spread fast, either good or bad

The process for bonding materials that normally won't bond often requires moving from adhesives to a chemical bonding process to ensure adhesion and durability. I'm sure they found a way to make it work.

[Mikey]

Apologies for not getting back sooner with some info - am just back from Jackson and they're laying it on thick with the day job...

In any case, the current word is that we've got 42 sets of skis arriving in this week - these will go out once a final QC check has taken place. I'm not sure as to what exactly this shipment will compile of, but I'd expect that it'll predominately be Surreals and Tablas, as most of the R's have already shipped. In terms of specifics, I'm afraid I can't say when particular peoples skis will arrive, but hopefully it shouldn't be too much longer as production issues now are sorted.

Thanks again for your continued patience and support,

Mikey
Mike@dbskis.com

[splat]

Mikey - Just got off the phone with Stephan. Thanks for getting us connected.

[Mikey]

Right guys, got some bad news i'm afraid. Apparently there was a miscommunication with regard to the last shipment that was meant to come in – all of the skis were GOODE rather than the DB’s. I’ve no idea why this is, and nor has our production scheduler, as the email trail below testifies.

Many apologies for feeding you all duff information. Am trying to get a handle on when we can expect a new batch, but as yet have heard nothing. Will push for an official communication to go out this week, as appreciate that people are getting restless.

Cheers,

Mikey
Mike@dbskis.com



hey boys

we were getting nervous too early. the 40 pairs of skis mentioned to
arrive in the us this week are only goode skis. it seems like there will
be no db skis available for shipment this week.

i am sorry we told you that 40 pairs would be ready to send out this
week. i know you passed this information on to customers just about to
cancel their orders and ask for refunds. i know this is just making it
even more difficult.

it would have been too nice to get this many skis. sorry about this.

roman

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

Stephan,

According to the list I just received there are no DB skis in this
shipment. I will update you when I have more information.

Best Regards,

Peter Turner

[the_eleven]

These guys are burning every gram of customer good-will they ever had.

Are the skis being made in Europe or the US? The email says someting about the skis arriving in the US.

[SquawMan]

they should --not-- ship out a ski until they can guarantee the quality and the durability

skiing is dangerous enough without equipment failures

the last thing they need is a new customer's ski exploding down a couloir run in Chamonix because it wasn't made properly


p.s. when you guys finally get your Surreals, I'd love a side by side comparison with the '06 Volkl Mantras

[doofdoof]

I have to ask. Does anyone actually know what is happening?

I have convinced a friend to buy Surreals based on a Feb delivery and I think he is about to cancel.

Seriously, it would be much better if details of the actual problems were relayed to the people waiting for skis, rather than just putting the delivery date back by a month every month.

It also worries me a little that the information was passed onto customers who were about to cancel their orders. Is threatening to cancel likely to improve my chances of getting skis first?

Just getting pretty frustrated after ordering in early-September. My expected serial for my Tablas is #125, so even if 40 skis were delivered I doubt mine would be amongst them.

[Meathelmet]

they should --not-- ship out a ski until they can guarantee the quality and the durability

skiing is dangerous enough without equipment failures

the last thing they need is a new customer's ski exploding down a couloir run in Chamonix because it wasn't made properly


p.s. when you guys finally get your Surreals, I'd love a side by side comparison with the '06 Volkl Mantras

Who the hell put sand in your vagina?

You made (or not) you´r point in the first post allready,dumbass.

Do you work to K2 or something?

[KANUTTEN]

I have to ask. Does anyone actually know what is happening?
...
Just getting pretty frustrated after ordering in early-September. My expected serial for my Tablas is #125, so even if 40 skis were delivered I doubt mine would be amongst them.

I second doodorf (?) here. I made my TR order in early-October, and my initial message was that I would receive skis in November, and that my skis would be in the first batch to be produced. I understand that all the production problems were unforeseen, and is something that is hard to predict. But when the delay is for almost a season one would expect some clear information about what is going on. The last official information we received was the 15th of december saying that "as a conservative (?!) estimate your skis will not be delivered until probably February". Even the sentence here is so ambiguous that it calls for all different kinds of interpretations. Then I get the information that there were 42 skis produced, but that mine were not among them (i.e I wasn't in the first batch after all). And now we get the information that the 40-something skis weren't DB's at all, they were Goode's.

This just leaves me with the impression that everything is a complete mess.

I think people at DB can learn a lesson from the guys at PMGear. They had serious production problems as well. But Splat and others have been very straightforward with what is going on. "We had this problem, so now we are doing this". And so forth, all the time keeping customers up to speed. Also it has been pretty obvious that Splat and others really have been working their asses off in order to deliver. I think those guys at PMGear kept their goodwill because of that.

The same can not, unfortunately, be said about DB. I would love to say that "I understand, I stick with you guys, and too bad you have had these problems". But I simply haven't received info that can make me say that. I have no reason to believe that you have done everything in your power to keep your customers happy. I don't feel that I have been kept properly informed about what is going on.

I kind of think I understand what is going on here. I guess there has been general production problems at Goode's new facilities. As the factory is owned by Goode, he prioritises his own customers. So DB customers will be served after all Goode customers have received their products. It seems as if you guys at DB should follow up your agreement with Goode much stricter.

The last thing you can do to retain some of your customers goodwill is, in my opinion, to come completely clean on what has been going on. Also, you should be 100% open about what the plan is going forward and let the customers know everything about where you are in that process. And probably you should have a good long talk with mr Goode.

I hope I will be able to say that I am 100% behind you again. Best wishes

[Mikey]

Appreciate this is an extremely frustrating situation - for us all. We're only too aware that the good-will we've worked hard to build is evaporating.

However, (and not looking to make excuses) from a DB standpoint there's very little we can do. As is well documented our skis are produced at the GOODE factory, meaning that we're at the mercy of their production scheduling. This year they moved part of their operation from Michigan out to China, and this seems to have been the cause of most of the problems.

In a bid to try and find out what the score is, I phoned Stephan yesterday morning. Basically the arrangement with the factory is that they should produce a 50/50 split of GOODE/ db’s. However, in spite of what many people perceive, the makeup of the 2 skis are actually vastly different. Yes they’re both carbon, however db’s have different cores (5 channel torsion box vs 4), different layer make-ups (Kevlar wrap, more elastomer etc), completely different edge/base materials, different top sheet material, different flex profiles and different shapes – the skis are chalk and cheese! Anyway, for some reason China seem to be shipping GOODE skis rather than DB’s at the moment – hence that last shipment of 40 GOODEs that I referred to in previous posts.

What from our point of view is difficult, is that there seems to be no visibility on what they’re currently producing out in the Far East – we literally don’t know until they ship. Hence we’re unable to give any expected delivery dates to customers, as we’re left in the dark. There was a ‘revised’ production schedule floating around over Christmas, but working from that all skis would now have been delivered - understandably now they’re shying away from any further forecasting.

As a result of all this we’ve now stopped taking orders for this year. The hope is that with the new machinery GOODE has purchased, production will continue/ramp up over the summer and for next year we will have built up a stockpile of skis. For those waiting currently however that’s little consolation, all we can do is apologize. Once again if you would like to claim a refund then contact roman@dbskis.com and we shall honour it in full. Needless to say we also apologize for having debited your accounts in the first place – if we had any notion that things would turn out this way we would never have done taken any payment.

In answer to a couple of other questions that I’ve seen floating around. Squawman - I can assure you that there are absolutely no quality issues what so ever now with our skis. Durability is our first priority and we would NEVER ship a product that we knew to be in any way flawed. This is an absolute non-issue now. Doofdoof – threatening to cancel your order will have no impact on your place in the waiting list, it’s all set in stone.

So once again on behalf of dbskis I’d like to sincerely apologize to everyone still waiting for their skis. The only consolation I can offer, is that according to Stephan the skis that we’re producing now have again raised the performance bar on from last years models – so if you do hang on then it’ll be worth the (long) wait.

All the best, and as ever any questions feel free to mail me,

Regards,

Mike
Mike@dbskis.com