Carbon dork

[131crew]

Michelin DH 16 tires are another example of a tread pattern that has a recommended direction that looks completely counter intuitive. I had a set of them and disregarded the arrow on the sidewall and ran them how they looked right to me. After a while I changed them around to the recommended direction and I thought the performance of the tire did improve, even though they looked pretty weird to me. However, I never really ended up liking those tires as much as I originally had thought I would. I think the lugs may have been a little too soft and tall...

[lph]

sick ride J!!

as for the tires, I defer to kidwoo as well. I will say that I hate looking down at front tires where the side lugs are toed out like on the dissent. Michelin tires always look funny to me as well.

[panchosdad]

My Michelin's say to mount what looks like a normal direction in the front and reverse in the back. I put the rear on normal direction last season thinking it would be faster and corner better that way, but probably give up some traction. Riding seemed to confirm that, but I'm hardly a really discerning rider.

[Particle]

particle- for the record, that tire has not received the Wicked will tread cut on it yet that all yeti team riders do to them (all the intermediate knobs ausgang).

Interesting, so they cut out all those intermediate knobs? Could be pretty sick...

Thanks for all the tire thoughts all. Might have to try the 'normal-looking' front and backwards rear.

[phatfreeheeler]

Cutting those knobs makes sense to me, I hate intermediate knobs unless I'm only on hard packed dirt. I'm all about the gap to let the loose crap move into and then lots of side knobs to grab like the edge of a ski. Can't wait to report on the BBG's I just got. I think they could be almost perfect for dry Utah conditions.

[Arty50]

Cutting the intermediate nobs off a Nevegal made me unhate that tire. I would probably do the same thing to these.

[robnow]

Particle, have you had much time in 160/160 mode, at least I think I remember reading somewhere that you've got the hardware for both setups. IF you have, what differences have you noted?

Super stoked on the bike after a year on it but getting a new rear shock and contemplating the idea of the shorter rear travel to turn it into 160/140 from 160/160. Slacker head angle sounds good but don't really want to lose any BB height(small difference I suppose maybe not a big deal). Also don't really want to take more weight off the front end for climbing, great climber as is and going to do the Talas->Float conversion. Its my one bike to do it all, with all my riding emphasis climbing up to ride down, I'd say 40% technical AM trails, 40% local downhills, and 20% mini DH bike park, again, no shuttle or lift but all climbed.

Stock RP23 has been pretty good but I only like to run it with lots of sag(~33%) to make for a more compliant/responsive ride but with that getting too much bottom out. Any more air and it becomes too harsh. Most likely replacing with PUSHed RT-AM.

Anyway, you seem to be one of the very few running 160/140 so curious to hear your opinion now that you have more time on the bike as to pros/cons 160/140 vs. 160/160.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Sweet ride. Hope your finding some good trails as we get into Summer. I have a Nobby Nic on my bike, and Schwalbe arrows instruct setting it up backwards on the rear. Someone I ride with has a Yeti that came that way too. You can see the lugs are a bit ramped in that direction for rolling resistance, and the side lugs are siped on that side.
Looks weird as hell, and I'm tempted to turn it around, but I'm not sure I'd even notice a difference.

[lph]

I ran the nobby nic on the rear opposite of the arrows and I was washing out constantly, but it 'looked right', I switched it around to the rec tire rotation direction and it is much better.

eager to hear an update as well. Our LBS is selling alot of the 160's with 180 fork. Claiming it is a one bike quiver for tahoe.

I have two rides on the FSR EVO SJ pretty much stock and i am liking it. It pedals amazing well, very fast. climbs great. as for cornering and descending, it is certainly capable, but i still need to tweak the fox float fork, recommended pressure seems way to high to me as does the pressure on the RP23. The Geo feels great.

[hev]

J - how's the bike holding? I am seriously considering this frame as the consolidation of my DHR, Dirtjumper and Chameloen....it's a sick combo of DW at a low weight and geo matchup. Someone buy my downhill bike.. PLEASE.

[kidwoo]

I ran the nobby nic on the rear opposite of the arrows and I was washing out constantly, but it 'looked right', I switched it around to the rec tire rotation direction and it is much better.

It's true.

It's a shitty tire in any direction

[lph]

It's true.

It's a shitty tire in any direction

I wish I had a witty comeback, unfortunately woo speaks the truth.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Well they're better than Ignitors. Of course, anything's better than Ignitors.

[Particle]

Wow this thread blew up again! Cool.

I have been thinking I'm about due to circle back and do a longer-term review. But I'll get the early questions out of the way first:

robnow, sorry man. The bike is just too damn good in 160/140. I haven't even bothered switching it to 160/160 yet. But I've been thinking about trying it, now that I have a good feel for the bike. I'll try to swap it out this week sometime and give it a rip.

Schwalbes. I ran FA's last year in 2.25, this year in 2.4. I loved em last year, love em this year. I run them recommended direction. Again, I ain't messing with a good (great) thing. Just not worth it to me, and I'm more of a set it and forget it kinda rider.

On to the bike. Overall, I couldn't be happier with this thing. I've crashed it, hard. It didn't break. I've left it on my car's rack driving through the rain. It didn't melt. Had some annoying issues with my fancy Chris King headset loosening up, seems to be more or less secure now. Oh and I busted my Maxle quick release lever in a crash. Ibis sent me a new one, for free. Just cuz. (Insane awesome customer service.)

X9 group is bomber. Light, does the job, awesome. And I am SO impressed with the Formula RX brakes that came with the build. I want some Ones for my next DH bike now. The eThirteen Heim guide has been flawless. The Reverb rules. The hose routing is annoying though. It either buzzes on the tire when down, or I have to use some configuration of zip ties, the first time around of which actually damaged the hose enough for it to fail. Oops. But it's replaced and well bled and happy.

Climbing: kills it. I am SO MUCH faster on this bike than on my old Intense SS. I am probably a little fitter this year, but really the ~6 lbs less weight and more efficient suspension really do the job amazingly well. Power to the wheels, instantaneous. If I were coming off an XC racer machine, I could see it being a bit heavy, but for me the HD feels like it has a motor going uphill half the time. The slack angles aren't an issue for me; I'm already used to it. But if it does get really steep, the front end can get pretty light. Nothing some weight shifts can't take care of though.

It was also super efficient on long slogs - took it for 4 days on the White Rim this spring. Nary a complaint, aside from my shitty chamois on day 3... I could barely walk.

Suspenders: The RP23 was set up too stiff at first. I let out some air, and it is way better. I am not getting the o-ring to push off the shock shaft even while jumping though, so I could probably stand to drop another 5-10 psi. Not the plushest shock, but it rips and performs when needed. The Lyrik RC Solo Air has been a treat. I think it is actually, somehow, a better shock than my old 170 DH Lyrik. Don't ask my how. It's light, plush, tracks anything, and feels just. Awesome.

Trail/tomfoolery: Crazy crazy how stiff the bike is. Crazy. Never felt anything like it. Even my old Foes FXR, which is the closest thing to it in that category, wasn't as stiff. Something about the carbon, the massive linkages, and the Maxle and 20 mm thru axles I think. Quick. Lively. Fun fun fun. Jumpy. Poppy.

Downhill: I put in my fastest Super D time ever on this bike at Sundance. Only a few seconds off the guys who normally put 20-30 seconds into me on a similar length course (ex-pro faaast guys from Go-Ride). And the course was ALL downhill. Just a smidge of pedaling at the very bottom. The only thing I haven't been able to really test out is high speed chunder, a la Porcupine Rim. That's on the list. And one instance where I'll probably but a coil shock in 160 mode on it.

Jumping: Took the bike up to Arcylon a couple weeks ago for its first real jump session. Absolutely slays. Plenty of pop for hard-to-clear doubles. Enough squish for flat landers. Only complaint is my first few laps through the jumps, my seat was just a tad too high. To achieve ideal pedaling position, the saddle is slammed for DH but just a touch too high for lippy, poppy dirt jumps. But I got used to it quickly, and now don't even notice it. That said, I love this bike, and want to treat it well, so I'm not sure how much I'm going to want to take it to the jump park and beat the snot out of it. So I may get a used Bottlerocket or something to just be a cheaply-built, jump/abuse bike. Although there's really no need to do that. I'm just a gear whore.

Bottom line: there is nothing I won't do on the HD that I would do on the old SS. And that was a 170 bike I think? OK almost nothing... tight dirt jumps were comfier on the SS with its super low top tube. That's all I can think of though.

100+ miles of dirt road. Check.


Racing. Check.


Technical climbing. Check.


Downhill/jumping. Check.



Did I gush about this bike enough?

[lph]

I think he likes it.

[bagtagley]

Len, you traitor! I'm taking you off the guest list for my dress like DT party.

[lph]

Len, you traitor! I'm taking you off the guest list for my dress like DT party.

haha! it was such an impulse buy, and it was easy; 'I will take one of those'.

[grskier]

I demoed the HD in Fruita... I'm still lusting for it, hoping a frame may be in my future this fall...

[stuckathuntermtn]

You forgot to mention the pimpin blue accents.

[Hicks]

Purty looking high end bike, looks like a fun ride.

On a side note I run a Nobby Nic opposite to the rec direction in the front (which looks right) and a Fat Albert according to the rec, looking wrong. Outsite studs are pretty much the same on both but I think the Fat Albert corners better when comparing head to head. But that's just me.

[Particle]

HD 140 got hops.







And a better shot of Tuadog hitting the same hip on his Transition Covert:

[lph]

Nice pics, J!

got a Ibis demo day coming up in tahoe, hoping to demo a HD with 180 fork. sat on one the other day and it felt right. can't wait to see how it rides.

[phatfreeheeler]

So I got to ride Particles HD 140 w/160 Lyric today, right after riding my '07 Reign X (which was setup for jumping so it was 32lbs and has a 170 Lyric DH) We went and did a few laps on the trail he shows in pics above for lunch. I'd been riding my Glory there and not stoked on the trail flow w/the big bike so this was a day to try it on smaller bikes.

Let me start by saying that I don’t think the HD was setup ideal for my tastes, but it's still really nice any way to slice it. I adjusted nothing since we are pretty similar in size and weight....Right off the bat, the stiffness was hard to fathom. It made me miss lines on the trail that I expected my tires to hit cause it was more precise then I’m used to. Hard to explain, but I would expect my rear wheel to end up in a certain spot in a corner and it kept being in a tighter line. I would need to adapt to that cause I can carry better speed with my planned line. The rear shock is still a few psi above what I like and I wasn't as sold on the 140 mode which felt a tad odd to me with the 160 Lyric. It just didn't feel as balanced and because of this it kinda felt like it had a steeper HA then my RX. Particle raves about the setup and rips on it so take my comments with a grain. Could just be setup differences, but it’s hard to say. On top of the stiffness what I noticed was the pedal power. You could stand and stomp and the rear would only move maybe ½” max. I feel like the same motion on my RX would cause closer to 1.5” of movement. So even accounting for switching it to the 160 mode, it would still bob almost half as much as the Reign while mashing, and I never felt the Reign was bad before this day. The Mojo pedals a lot better, period (This point is too obvious to ignore for me). Bombing down the fire road descent at the end I felt a little more trail chatter on the HD rear, but not tons, even with only 140mm of travel. I did notice it fights against manualling a bit more then the Reign which wasn't always ideal as I dropped through trenches, but I expect I'd adapt. I’d say it feels a lot more like a VPP bike then a Maestro bike. More emphasis on pedaling but only sacrificing a tad on plushness. It’s all in where you put the pivots, right. I'm seriously thinking about a HD160 with my 170mm fork (I really like my Lyric DH Solo Air) I think anyone that buys one of these is very wise right now. The versatility to switch it 140/160 is a pretty nice bonus too. I'm not sure how I'd feel jumping on a bike much lighter as his 30lb HD already felt like a feather.

Right now there are 3 bikes on the list if I unload the old Reign X...A new Reign X, the new Reign which I'd run with a long fork, or the Mojo HD160. The Nomad C would probably be on the edge of the list as well

Today also had me thinking that my Glory"ous" experiment may be nearing an end and it's time to accept that a DH bike is a DH bike and just keep it for the 5-10 days per year that I need it instead of using it as a long travel AM bike (To clarify, it has a Hammerschmidt, 5" Gravity Dropper, 180mm Totem, Monarch Plus for only 190mm of rear travel, Flow's on King hubs, BBG's...all for 35.8lbs, but for DH days I switch it up to Outlaws, big tires, short post, and an RC4 so it's 39 lbs) It was awesome last year at Whistler like this Either I'm more out of shape or others are just faster, but I'm starting to feel like I'm bringing too much power to bear on many rides. I was hoping to use this for all duties beyond trail riding and get something like a Mojo SLR to replace the ReignX for trail duties. I'm trying to avoid a 3 bike stable...decisions...decisions.

Maybe I should just buy a carbon 29er hardtail and keep the RX and Glory and a lot of money....NOT

[joetron]

Thats a good review. Thanks for that writeup. Setup is super crucial on DW link bikes, so if the PSI was a bit high it would definitely feel a bit harsh deeper in the travel.
My experience has been the same as yours, I feel like Maestro and DW could not be more different. Maestro has always felt plush and squishy, while DW is plush but firm.
In the next few weeks I'm gonna geek out and ride a 5.7 back to back with my NomadC on the same trail. The ride I did 3 weeks ago on the 5.7 is still resonating with me. That thing was crazy.
Regarding your Glory....fuck yes, make it a DH bike (or maybe a FR bike with the Totem, normal chairpole, and a single ring)and call it good. Then get a nice 6"' trail bike.

[Particle]

Good thoughts and always interesting to hear another perspective on the bike. You tend to get comfy in a niche/riding style, and don't think necessarily about how other people interact with a certain setup.

I'm curious to try dropping even 5 psi from the rear shock to get just a bit more plushness out of it, but honestly I've always been a fan of firm suspensions - reminds me a bit of my old FXR which had more of a Porsche feel than a Cadillac.