Snow for the Euros.

[Mr. Mike]

And yet you have lifts without safety Bars. Im always amazed by that. [emoji3]
And the other things you don't see are actual chairs. It's just that when in it's good people use every opportunity of Transportation.

nah, our lifts all have safety bars now. We just don't USE them. WTF is that you are riding in--coffin?

[subtle plague]

nah, our lifts all have safety bars now. We just don't USE them. WTF is that you are riding in--coffin?

It's for transporting goods to the top. For the Restaurant.
3 chairs and one of these behind each other. 4 such settings on the lift.
55 people per hour!

[Buster Highmen]

Kurt's

[Straightline1]

Hello,

I am planning a trip to the alps for next year and thinking maybe La grave or Engelberg. It won’t be many days so I will probably hire a guide for most days. Between those 2 resorts, which gets more snow and which has bigger terrain? I was originally thinking La grave but I am worried a bit about the existence of fresh snow. Also does Engelberg get tracked out faster on a powder day because it’s more ‘resort’? The time period I am thinking is somewhere between last week of February and first week of march for a week.

Thanks!

[bobinch]

Hello,

I am planning a trip to the alps for next year and thinking maybe La grave or Engelberg. It won’t be many days so I will probably hire a guide for most days. Between those 2 resorts, which gets more snow and which has bigger terrain? I was originally thinking La grave but I am worried a bit about the existence of fresh snow. Also does Engelberg get tracked out faster on a powder day because it’s more ‘resort’? The time period I am thinking is somewhere between last week of February and first week of march for a week.

Thanks!

La Grave is amazing if you get it in good condition and have the ability to ski the steep lines. But it is a big if…

Engelberg gets more reliable snow and is more accessible.

They will both be busy on a powder weekend, much less so during the week

If I was you I’d get a flight to Geneva and decide a few days before where to go based on the conditions / forecast. You also have Chamonix and Verbier nearby as great options

With a week I would split your time. If you go to Engelberg combine with Andermatt.

If you go to La Grave you could combine with Serre Chevalier and Montgenevre. Or even Chamonix.

[Straightline1]

Yes !maybe I should go that way and try to combine some resorts!
Thank you!

[Buster Highmen]

Relative to Switzerland, France is a lot harder to get around in.
Plan for a whole day getting to most stations in France as well as getting back to your return flight.
Switzerland is more like 4 hours max from either Geneva or Zurich and in some cases, you can ski the day of your return flight.

La Grave is huDge but Engelberg gets more consistent snow.
Engelberg has great access, LG not so much.

A guide is required for first time visits to LG, but not as much in Engelberg where a guide is still useful to show you how to get into the Laub and the variations into the Jochstock.

If you have at most a week, I'd stay put at any of the major stations like LG, Verbier, Chamonix, Val d'Isere/Tignes, Jungfrau, Engelberg, St. Moritz, SkiArena or St. Anton. There's enough at any of those locales to keep one busy for a week.

If you have more than a week, then maybe sampling around would be worth it. Travel light.

Don't dismiss the lesser knowns, your $ and the pow lasts longer.

https://www.bergfex.com/

[Rossymcg]

Yes !maybe I should go that way and try to combine some resorts!
Thank you!

why you not include Austria? St Anton is as good as anywhere for off piste with a guide. Austria is cheaper than than France and Switz as well. Public transport is excellent and the apres is an experience that can't be missed

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[rod9301]

If any of you like to ski steep couloirs, bareges/la Mongie in the French pyrenees is the best in Europe.

I counted over 80 couloirs, with short approaches, 30m to 1 hour, all 40 degrees and (much) steeper. And no glaciers.

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[subtle plague]

If any of you like to ski steep couloirs, bareges/la Mongie in the French pyrenees is the best in Europe.

I counted over 80 couloirs, with short approaches, 30m to 1 hour, all 40 degrees and (much) steeper. And no glaciers.

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You are on some Kind of Mission here , aren't you?


To the OP: Engelberg and arlberg are more accessible and reliable snowwise. La grave is always windy. I've been the quite a lot and good snow, decent base AND not a lot of wind is a rare thing.

[rod9301]

Pretty much. I skied the Alps quite a bit, and in my opinion, for steep skiing and low exposure, it's hard to beat the pyrenees. Plus lower avie danger.

Trying to help people here.

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[Rossymcg]

how do you conclude lower avi danger?
I wouldn't compare the snow fall in the pyrenees to the Arlberg under any stretch of the imagination,

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[rod9301]

how do you conclude lower avi danger?
I wouldn't compare the snow fall in the pyrenees to the Arlberg under any stretch of the imagination,

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The Alps have a continental snowpack and the pyrenees Maritime.

And i think the pyrenees get more snow, certainly better, imo, more dense, which i prefer.

But the best thing is that you can ski untracked for a week after a storm, if you're willing to hike a bit



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[subtle plague]

Hey subtle and rod,


please stop now..... i know where this is going : )

It's going to All of the 80 couloirs in mammoth!

[bobinch]

The Alps have a continental snowpack and the pyrenees Maritime.

And i think the pyrenees get more snow, certainly better, imo, more dense, which i prefer.

But the best thing is that you can ski untracked for a week after a storm, if you're willing to hike a bit

Looked awful on the FWT stops in Jan. Not that the Alps were much better in March…

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

The Alps have a continental snowpack

Not saying you’re wrong, but I’ve poked around and never been able to find data/articles that about the typical Alps snowpack and how it lines up up with North American snowpack classifications. Nor how say the Arlberg may compare to Chamomix (or other locations).

Anyone know where I might be able to find that/the best place to start?

[Rudimatt7]

Don’t set something in stone, be flexible. Have an idea where you’d like to go but wait to see how the snow is shaping up by around thanksgiving or so. Just got back from about my sixty fifth alps trip, sometimes I’ve gone three times in a year, (winter ski, spring touring, summer climbing). I usually look and see if my preferred location is getting decent snow by early dec. then I make plans accordingly. There’s a lot of places to go in the alps, it’s mind boggling.

[Rudimatt7]

Hello,

I am planning a trip to the alps for next year and thinking maybe La grave or Engelberg. It won’t be many days so I will probably hire a guide for most days. Between those 2 resorts, which gets more snow and which has bigger terrain? I was originally thinking La grave but I am worried a bit about the existence of fresh snow. Also does Engelberg get tracked out faster on a powder day because it’s more ‘resort’? The time period I am thinking is somewhere between last week of February and first week of march for a week.

Thanks!

Don’t set something in stone, be flexible. Have an idea where you’d like to go but wait to see how the snow is shaping up by around thanksgiving or so. Just got back from about my sixty fifth alps trip, sometimes I’ve gone three times in a year, (winter ski, spring touring, summer climbing). I usually look and see if my preferred location is getting decent snow by early dec. then I make plans accordingly. There’s a lot of places to go in the alps, it’s mind boggling.

[powderfanatic]

love to get this groups thoughts on the expansion of epic and ikon into europe. its slow and methodical for now (i dont like it one bit) and with Vail/Epic buying a majority stake of andermatt....it concerns me. I love the alps for what it is and its mostly not like the US resorts...i worry about the commercialization, lift prices and overall "americanizing" of the old country...

[Buster Highmen]

love to get this groups thoughts on the expansion of epic and ikon into europe. its slow and methodical for now (i dont like it one bit) and with Vail/Epic buying a majority stake of andermatt....it concerns me. I love the alps for what it is and its mostly not like the US resorts...i worry about the commercialization, lift prices and overall "americanizing" of the old country...

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...edrun-Sport-AG

Plus:

Austria is not cheaper than France or Switzerland anymore, especially St. Anton/Arlberg.

And my snowpack can beat up your snowpack.

[::: :::]

Attachment 411715

I have never seen something like that — it’s like a shopping basket you climb in?

Is this a standard lift type for humans? Or it’s a materials lift that humans occasionally ride on?

[Mr. Mike]

Don’t set something in stone, be flexible. Have an idea where you’d like to go but wait to see how the snow is shaping up by around thanksgiving or so. Just got back from about my sixty fifth alps trip, sometimes I’ve gone three times in a year, (winter ski, spring touring, summer climbing). I usually look and see if my preferred location is getting decent snow by early dec. then I make plans accordingly. There’s a lot of places to go in the alps, it’s mind boggling.

And check the winter break schedule before you nail down your plans. That timeframe the poster mentioned will have a lot of euro vacation overlap. Switzerland seems less affected but you want to avoid France the couple of weeks in February when the whole country is on winter school break and same on Austria if Netherlands, a big chunk of Germany and the Austria all happen to have break at the same time. Post back here in December where you are still considering and the week you have zeroed in on and euro mags can heLp steer you in a way that will hopefully get you to the snow and away from winter break crowds.

[Buster Highmen]

I have never seen something like that — it’s like a shopping basket you climb in?

Is this a standard lift type for humans? Or it’s a materials lift that humans occasionally ride on?

There's a bunch of weirdo lifts around Switzerland.

[subtle plague]

There's a bunch of weirdo lifts around Switzerland.

Keep Lifting weird!
Im my case it's a Transport basket which is only utilized for human transport in cases of powder fever.


As for the snowpack in the alps: Varies from year to year. Big dumps early on in november =stable base.
Early snowfall in autumn and/or small dumps far apart=pwl mess.
Generally inner grisons and valais have that Problem a lot more often then Cham or Engelberg for example.

The Pyrenees are a lot more erratic snowfall wise than the alps because usually we get a Variation of a westerly flow that brings snow to the continent.

And they are warmer, being more southern, so you get a more springy ( I wouldn't call it maritime) snowpack like california (I guess. I've never been).
Although rod describes the pyrenees as the last shangri la, it is more likely to score in the alps as a traveller.

[raisingarizona13]

The Alps have a continental snowpack and the pyrenees Maritime.

And i think the pyrenees get more snow, certainly better, imo, more dense, which i prefer.

But the best thing is that you can ski untracked for a week after a storm, if you're willing to hike a bit



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Are you sure about that? I don't know squat about the Alps snowpack but I've always been under the impression that it's more intermountain in structure and behavior. If they had a true, Colorado like, upside down slide cake continental snowpack those giant Alps ski area would be pretty impossible to manage.

I'm still blown away by the grooming at Sedrun/Andermatt. Can you imagine grooming the Gemstock in a blizzard with increasing avalanche dangers? Yikes.