If you only had 1 setup to bring on a trip.....

[bern43]

on3p construction is really top notch. Can't say enough good things about the build quality on my Viciks. Especially for a relatively new company. From what I've read, the 191 Billy Goat is supposed to be pretty good on hardpack.

[JoeStrummer]

My one ski for a trip like that (say Europe with lifts and tours) is the Movement Goliath Sluff with Dynafit Comforts. I wouldn't "tour" on a ski with dims like you mentioned but touring means different things to different people.

[ClarkleberryFinn]

I love my Bibby Pros for mixed conditions in Austria, unless the snow is properly frozen hard. Much more versatile than I expected. Similar to your dims, and I have Barons on them, but screw skinning them for more than an hour - I just want to flexibility to skin to pretty lines rather than bootpack.

[Skeeze]

From what I've read, it seems like the 191 Lhasa or its slightly fatter version would be perfect. The 191 Billygoat and Caylor might be a bit better in powder, but not as good on hardpack. Plus, they're heavier. The Wrenegade would be better on hardpack, but not as good as the Lhasa in powder. For the ability to do everything at least fairly well at a light weight, I don't think the Lhasa would be beat. Perhaps the DPS 112 would be better if you prefer shorter turns. The Praxis Concept could also be in consideration.

[Ted Striker]

on3p construction is really top notch. Can't say enough good things about the build quality on my Viciks. Especially for a relatively new company.

I agree with this. I'm really impressed with the quality of their skis.

From what I've read, the 191 Billy Goat is supposed to be pretty good on hardpack.

But the billy goat is pretty far from a flat tail, and weighs almost 11 lbs for the pair.

My one ski for a trip like that (say Europe with lifts and tours) is the Movement Goliath Sluff with Dynafit Comforts. I wouldn't "tour" on a ski with dims like you mentioned but touring means different things to different people.

Me too. The Sluff is such a great under the radar ski. Or maybe a Praxis BC or Freeride.

The idea of touring on a really fat ski just seems like too much work to me. I guess I'm getting old.

[spindrift]

Praxis Concept would be my choice. I am a big fan. It has a definite personality in how transitions between carving and smearing. But I find it solid, nimble, predictable and forgiving. Without a doubt my "I don't know what I'm gonna get and I can only take one pair" ski. Keith's construction is a as bomber as it gets. If you were looking at slightly skinnier skis, the Praxis BC is a pretty darn nice ski.

If you are looking at skis like the Bent Chetler & JJ, consider the Rocker 2 as well. Really nice ski (as is the Bent Chetler). Regarding the CRJ, maybe it was my skiing mediocrity (which I fully own up to), but I found it twitchy about getting on and holding an edge. As I used it, it felt more comfortable, but I don't think it gets really top scores in that dimension.

As data, I've skied Concepts a few dozen days. And the Bent Chetlers, Rocker 2 and CRJ about a half day each.

[shasti]

The bibby pro is a cool idea. If only they were easier to find cheapish...

I appreciate the perspective that some prefer a narrower, lighter ski for this application as that often helps skiing in crummy snow, and skinning

I have owned the lhasa 191. It did not plane much in pow. I found myself leaning back more than I wanted to. Also maybe the interaction of the tip rocker and sidecut was strange but I just could not predict when the tip was going to grab, allowing my edge to engage, and when it was going to slide. Super light, stable, and decent in every condition, just not my cup of tea

I know nothing about the Rocker 2, and I would consider the CRJ, but I feel like the tip should be wider. I heard it likes to slarve more than charge, and is not very stable at speed.

The concepts seem strange. Not sure what that technology would feel like. I would want either a ton of positive reviews, or to try them first before i would consider them.

[Ted Striker]

I think you are in a similar conundrum as the old bike adage: light, strong, cheap - pick any two.

Both the DPS 112RP and the Lotus 120 meet many/most of your qualifiers, but are spendy. Same could be said for the Lhasa (but you don't dig it). Most of the other skis mentioned in the thread aren't particularly light, and/or have rockered tails.

[theetruscan]

I have owned the lhasa 191. It did not plane much in pow. I found myself leaning back more than I wanted to. Also maybe the interaction of the tip rocker and sidecut was strange but I just could not predict when the tip was going to grab, allowing my edge to engage, and when it was going to slide. Super light, stable, and decent in every condition, just not my cup of tea
...
The concepts seem strange. Not sure what that technology would feel like. I would want either a ton of positive reviews, or to try them first before i would consider them.

It sounds like your Lhasas need a tune. My one complaint with the Lhasa as I have them set up (splat says I was supposed to bevel/detune instead of just slamming them on rocks for 40 days) is that the tails let go a touch before I expect it sometimes. The tips and underfoot are very predictable though. I always figured the tails let go a bit early because I'm a hack.

Everyone I've talked to who has skied the concepts says they're amazing. I'm hoping for a less horrible topsheet next year.

[hoarhey]

I don't think you can get a 190 cm ski at those dimensions (118 mm waist) to come in at 9 lbs
A 176 cm S7 and 175 cm prior overlord weigh 9 lbs

190 lotus 120 pure is around 8.2 lbs or so

New volkl shiro would fit the bill possibly (except for maybe price, weight, tail rocker, flat camber)

prior overlord, but you'll get killed on price and probably weight

I think you may find that a lotus 120 might ski like your lhasa (pintail effect)

[GeezerSteve]

I'm wid Joe Strummer on this. I'd tour on something shorter, narrower and tighter radius, so that's what I'd take. Of my current skis, I'd pack my AP (Coomback)/Dynafits for mid-winter or Trab Stelvio Light XL/Dynafits for spring conditions. Also, if I were lift skiing for 3 days and then touring for 5, I'd take it easy on the lift days to save my legs for the tour.

ETA: And I'd be in my TLT 5 boots all 8 days

[Beyond]

So this is more a thread about what new very wide very cheap touring ski should you buy. Of the ones you list, and given what you don't like about the Lhasa's (never had issues carving mine, but irrelevant if you really hate yours), Bentchetler. Rest are either too heavy for hut touring or not as stabile as the Lhasa, so non-starters. Incidentally, none of the skis you list are going to be available for $500, although the Charger might be close. And the worst choice, given your issues with the Lhasa.

Of the ones you don't list, two with more normal waists: Elan Olympus, 110 waist, very light (4020 gm for the 176's), metal so strong and grippy, moderate front rocker, world-class construction, currently can be found near your price point. Prior Husume, 105 waist, also light, rocker, maple core strong, designed for touring and sidebounds, currently on sale at their site, but still on the high side for your budget.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Thanks for the suggestions about plates and inserts. I realize that this would make sense, but the ft12 inbounds isn't the issue that is making me consider the atlas/duke combo. Its the fact that I do not like the lhasa. Call me crazy, (and then buy them from me for 500$) but I'm skeptical that detuning the tip is going to make this ski do what I think it should, which is have smooth, predictable, fully engaged edge grip. I feel like if a ski makes me search for its sweet spot so hard, and I still dont find it......there is a problem. I like the skis that make it clear when you are on its sweet spot, that spot where the ski performs just as it should. Then all I have to do is stay there. This spot exists on most skis I have skied. Long short, fat, skinny, and all kinds of other things, but I cant find it on the lhasa.

I posted the thread because I wanted to hear what people think about skis that they would seriously enjoy in pow, and also if there wasn't much snow as well. Personally I am not interested in DPS stuff, although I expected a lot of people to suggest them. The Voile Chargers are real interesting, and I'm sure the Renegade is an amazing ski. Would anybody ski the Katana as a quiver of 1 or is the tip rocker still not enough to eliminate having to lean back in pow ? How about the the CRJ, does it hold an edge ? or the Bent chetlers or the Whitedot redeemer ? Liberty Double Helix ? or anything by Moment or Praxis or ON3P or Fatypus ?

There are so many goddamn skis to choose from.

Lhasas need a tune. I put a 1 base 2 side on mine. Thoroughly de burr. Take a mill file and put a radius on the tip edges from the contact point forward. Lightly de tune for a few centimeters back of contact point. Do the same to the tails. Adjust the length of turn to half a football field and rail. After doing this they didn't feel hooky at all and edge grip was amazing. I found the solution to planing was to get more forward oddly enough.

[shasti]

So this is more a thread about what new very wide very cheap touring ski should you buy.

Thank you for the suggestions of the elan and prior skis, which I had not thought of. I did not mean to limit the discussion of this idea to my preferences. My aims was to further discussion on a "quiver of 1" that would allow you to tour, ski pow inbounds and out, and make the rest of the time enjoyable too (which I think interests more than just me). I appreciate all the input and feedback with regards to my specific preferences, and I apologize for steering the people towards solving my conundrum.

Please, if you wish, feel free to offer what ski you would pick for this application and why

[Ted Striker]

I found the solution to planing was to get more forward oddly enough.

The pintail effect, like hoarhey mentioned. Forward and fast.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The pintail effect, like hoarhey mentioned. Forward and fast.

Exactly. Then push on the heels and shut 'er down. I'm amazed at how fast you can scrub speed on these skis in deep snow.

[shasti]

^But does that bug you ? That sliding out of the tails, sort of a back end slarve? When I ski my Atlas, the more you angle the edges, the faster/easier the tip engages your turn. So as long as you are balanced and creating edge angle (the same you would on a groomer) you are going to be able to turn on a dime. You never even need to scrub speed because you are in more control. It feels more dynamic to me. Maybe its just personal preference

[MagnificentUnicorn]

^I like it. In powder you can angle your turns on Lhasas and make big gs turns like on a groomer or you can slarve. I feel I can ski faster all the time because I can slow down faster, I guess it makes me feel like I have more control. I don't feel like the tails wash out at all, in fact it's the opposite they dig in if pressured but the tips stay up. I mounted boot center on the line and there is a lot of tail. I really think of getting forward, more as getting centered. Of course I have them mounted for tele, so it's probably different with your heels fixed.

[XavierD]

196 Blizzard Bodacious? It fits what you are looking for, but I would go for the cochise instead. Cochise with one of the stronger tech bindings would not be a bad option for what you are looking for. Not supper light, but increadably versatile and and fun to ski.

[neufox47]

Rossi RC112 meets all but the weight qualification. DPS W105's 188 Pures would be my choice, now if DPS would just give the ski a rocker instead of early rise... I got mine used for $400. They railed groomers, floated / cut through pow predictably, skied trees well (as long as you stayed forward and are ok with going fast), and absolutely railed on steeps. Best ski for 50 degree corn I have ever experienced.

[|K_M|]

DPS W112RP Pure, mounted with Quiverkillers for both Duke and Dynafit. Problem solved.

This, but with 200cm lotus 120 pures and dukes/plum guides.

I can dream.

[kix515]

I'll bring this thread back up as I'm having a similar dilemma. Tahoe skier taking his first trip over to the Alps this winter. 2 weeks total. Chamonix>?>St. Anton and I can't figure out what skis to bring. I'll be traveling with 2 people only rocking trekkers so we'll only be looking to do more than a boot pack if its necessary to find good snow.

What I've got/considered.
Praxis BC w FT12s & Virus boots. Love this set up but, do I want to spend that much time in bounds on my dynafits with more resort oriented skiers.

CRJ's w STH16s I lose all touring ability or get trekkers which wouldn't be much fun.

Bros w Dukes. OK skis but, not really thrilled off piste/powder where I definitely want some rocker and more shape.

Praxis Mtn Jib w Dukes This is the setup I think I would want but, I would have to buy the skis before the sale ended on the 1st.

2 pairs of skis. Not really considering because I would do CRJs and Praxis BC which would then require 2 different pairs of boots as well.

Any thoughts for a first timer to the alps who will mostly be skiing with a guide but, not really touring much unless the snow is really bad.

Thanks

[shasti]

I don't think this applies perfectly to your situation, but it might be useful.

From what I know about the current technology, I think that while there are many skis I can enjoy thoroughly in soft conditions (they are all around 139 in the tip, 119 in the waist, and 129 in the tail WITH tip rocker and only slight underfoot camber) and the Dynafit Titan is good both for skiing inbounds and touring, I still prefer 2 bindings if I am going to ride lifts and tour.

My current quiver is Movement Goalith 191 with 916 and Salomon Rocker2 with PLUM Guides. I plan to use inserts on both setups, and switch my 916 and PLUM bindings back and forth as needed. This way I only have one major choice to make: which ski. If it seems like I will be skiing primarily harder snow, I will stick with a 109 underfoot ski, which ideally has a slightly stiffer flex. If I am going to find some pow, I will go with the 119 underfoot ski, which ideally has a slightly softer flex, (just my preferences).

What I would choose on your trip depends on the people you are going with, and the time of year. I think it sounds like your 2 friends are not going to be touring much, because alpine trekkers are not fun. To me that sounds like the time for a ski with alpine bindings that is about 134-112-124 and has slight tip rocker but normal camber underfoot.

[1000-oaks]

The pintail does something that I can't comprehend. I felt like I could never stand on the ski comfortably, like I always had to be accounting for the tendency of the tip to hook and pull, harder then the tail would agree to hold. It was like every turn resulted in a mini slide because the ski wants to rotate, instead of grip and bend like I expect, throughout the turn.

Couldn't have described the original Pontoon better, digging Sumo's much more.

[sqikunst]

Europe does not need something wider than 105 maximum 110 for a trip ski. Completely redundant!! Its about big ass lines here and if you rock up and its shit which it can be for a long time. Think last winter all euro dudes out there. Now I like my FAT/LONG ass skis. PowBoards, Protests, Rocker 2 etc. Have them and I love them. Got 30 days on them last year. Fischer Watea 101 182cm with dyn. Touring heaven. Love my long skis but you do not really want have to be jump turning 190cm of ski in a 15' wide chute over nasty exposure. 99mm-105 is the quiver of one for Europe.

E.g Dolomites March 2011. 80cm of new snow over 2 days. Only had by 191 shoguns with me. First day 40 cm of fresh tree skiing, 191 shogun = AWESOME. Crazy skandis = Pontoons, Hellbents, Solly Rockers, i.e really fat!!! But I was busting pillows bombing little 10 footers like the rest of them. Next day tracks filled in total of 80 laying on the ground = bottomless agh!!!! 101mm shogun tree skiing face shots all the way just as stoked as everyone else on my little itty bitty 101mm. 3rd day bluebird, cold till lunch then sun influence and warming temps. 3000' vert lines all morning then started to mash potato. Only time in the trip I wanted my super fats. Next day refrozen breakable crust in certain places. Dude on the hellbents went from confidant crazy skandi to shittin his pants. Long story short the boys on the big toys didnt have fun that day and most of them gave up till early afternoon when it started to corn up (wrong word, firn like) in the sun. But the 101mm killed it in the deep the slush the groomers the mank the pretty much everything.

Not sure of this is a good summary but its huge ass terrain where the snow is not going to be friendly to you. Touring rig is a must so plates are a good idea. Shit gets tracked fast the cool thing is lifts go up everywhere so short skins = large rewards.

When I think of my Euro quiver of one i.e train trip where late in the year if I do not know if the snow is coming in wet cause its warm or how much is coming in (prediction accuracy can be dicy, e.g said trip to the Dolomites was only meant to get 40cm), I picture the ski which I can have the most fun on in the shittiest conditions that that particular weather pattern "could" produce.

You don't want to be stuck on a pair of 120mm skis in Europe. If its like many periods in 2010/2011 you are going to be begging for some skinny rando ass things that let you go slay big vert. Best, most fun place to ski in the world. Come for the terrain, the crazy lifts, the mad parties, Face shots are a bonus .... You want to get white crap all over your face head to Japan or interior BC.

Long rant.

Cheers, and bring some some la nina snow with you cause last year in Europe made me feel like a heroin addict.