"Eat Like A Predator, Not Like Prey": Paleo In Six Easy Steps, A Motivational Guide

[Spats]

deeppo: Read the article which started this thread. I wrote it specifically so you wouldn't have to read an entire book to go Paleo.
http://www.gnolls.org/1141/eat-like-...ational-guide/

To address the confusion, there are several variants of Paleo and Paleo-ish.

* Paleo 1.0, from the original "The Paleo Diet" book. No one follows this anymore, not even its author Loren Cordain, because it advocates some bizarre bunk in order to conform to anti-saturated fat dogma of the time (frying things in flaxseed oil...a bad idea for many reasons).

* Paleo 1.1, found in Cordain's "The Paleo Answer" book. Also known as "clean Paleo" or a "Whole 30", and popularized in "It Starts With Food". Anyone attempting to address autoimmune disease or other health issues should probably start here. Summary: no grains or grain oils, sweet potatoes OK, nightshades (white potatoes, peppers, tomatoes) OK unless you're dealing with autoimmune issues.
http://www.gnolls.org/3151/book-revi...lissa-hartwig/

* Primal, found in Mark Sisson's "Primal Blueprint". This is basically Paleo Lite, and is more tolerant towards dairy products and high fat intake generally.

* Perfect Health Diet, which is basically Primal plus white rice. This is where I personally end up: I need a decent amount of carbohydrate due to lots of intense glycolytic effort, I'm trying to gain muscle mass right now, and one can only eat so many goddamned potatoes.
http://www.gnolls.org/3284/book-revi...december-2012/

Skipping breakfast will kill you.

That article is so factually wrong in every respect that it's painful to read. Fasting dramatically improves insulin sensitivity (a good thing): heavy caloric restriction has been proven to reverse type 2 diabetes (which is defined, in part, by a lack of insulin sensitivity) in a few weeks. And I can show you plenty of citations which show that people who don't consume breakfast consume fewer calories throughout the day; that breakfast skippers lose more weight than breakfast eaters; etc.

Plus, the typical American breakfast is just snacks and dessert.
http://www.gnolls.org/2131/the-breakfast-myth-part-1/
http://www.gnolls.org/2181/the-break...ing-breakfast/

PROTIP: the quote "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" has no basis in fact: it was first spoken by Gregor Samsa's father in Kafka's "Metamorphosis".

Hey has anyone heard from Mr. Stanton? (SPATS)

I'm here, and just updated. http://www.gnolls.org

The problem is that I just love breads

Look into the Weston A. Price foundation...they're big on ancestral methods of preparing grains (soaking, sprouting, etc.) that increase nutrition and decrease toxin load. I find it much easier to just avoid them, but YMMV.

[altachic]

Since this was bumped....

I had a physical with blood work done last week. I was pretty sure my results would be pretty good since dropping 50 lbs in the last year, but they were stellar! So proud of myself.
I will eat a paleo/primal lifestyle forever. My mom has been worried about how many eggs and meat I eat and I've proven to her (and the rest of my family) that it's a myth and there are SO many other factors that go into having high cholesterol.

[liv2ski]

^^^50lbs!!!! Wow, great job. I can only think your skiing will kill it this winter

[deeppo]

Rather Ripped- That was my diet before going towards the paleo way. Yes I know bagels and pasta are not paleo.
I ran a lot this summer because I was training for a couple of races including a 40 mile 14k of climbing trail run. I enjoy running but will be cutting back a little next summer. Certainly my ITBS is from running. Been trying to follow the perfect health diet. With my auto immune issues I have stayed away from most nightshades but find it hard to give up tomatoes. Potatoes seem to have a very negative impact on me. The PHD does have confusing stuff in it. On one part they tell you to stay away from wheat and soy but they also say a beer or 2 is ok and use soy sauce(are there any good non soy alternitive?) in many of there recipes. Its also been tough because all of the grocery stores near me suck so getting good meat has been tough. Luckily my roommate just got an elk and I think I have a line on good local grass fed beef. I must say its amazing how after a good meal without wheat I am totaly satisfied where when I was eating a huge portion of pasta I would be hungry even though I was full(I know this does not make sense). I still have been eating some cheese and full fat yogurt(after years of eating fat free its amazing how much better full fat is) but no plain milk.
Thanks spats for all of you helpful info. Its funny I remember reading your eat like a predator when this post was first started and thinking how dumb is this. I read it last month and thought ok makes some sense. Reading it today it seems to make perfect sense.

All in all its been a fun and tasty process

[astralboy15]

"Now clear those frozen pizzas and Weight Watchers out of your freezer and give them to your fat neighbor, because you are going to the supermarket right now. And you will take a shopping cart, not one of those demure little baskets, because you are going to fill it with heavy, fatty, delicious MEAT."

I run 50-70+ miles a week. My best runs are ALWAYS when my meal preceding the run has been pizza - though I don't eat pizza that often - and LOTS of it.

Kilian Jornet eats lots of pizza and is basically a god.

Therefore, everyone needs to eat more pizza.

/troll.

[Spats]

altachic: WOOT!

deeppo: Gluten free soy sauce is relatively easy to find. If you're trying to eliminate all traces of soy, "coconut aminos" are Whole 30-approved, though they don't taste quite like soy sauce (it's a similar taste, but not at all the same). Congratulations on the elk!

I would stay away from beer. Stick to sake or, even better, distilled liquors.

I'm glad you're seeing improvement! Allopathic treatments for autoimmune diseases basically amount to "take prednisone until you get so fat and fucked up that you can't take anymore, then start taking steadily more toxic drugs and hope they don't kill you before the disease". Diet goes a long way towards ameliorating the symptoms, and some people even report remission. I wish you the best.

[Game Over]

I would stay away from beer. Stick to sake or, even better, distilled liquors.

Why sake? I am under the impression that sake's brewing process is very similar to beer. Both non-distilled where the mash was made converting grain starch to sugar.

[Rideski]

So what is the latest thinking about cholesterol? I've read most of this thread and the links but forgot. Why is mass media still saying fatty meat contributes?

[Dantheman]

So what is the latest thinking about cholesterol? I've read most of this thread and the links but forgot. Why is mass media still saying fatty meat contributes?

Because they are too lazy or uninterested to pay attention to recent research.

"Meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD."
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract

"Consumption of processed meats, but not red meats, is associated with higher incidence of CHD and diabetes mellitus."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20479151/

"After correction for measurement error, higher all-cause mortality remained significant only for processed meat"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23497300/

[Rideski]

Thanks for the links Dan, will read in a minute.
FTR, I've been semi paleo for 5 months now.
Gave up my beloved PBJ's for breakfast and have eaten bacon and eggs pretty much every day since. Gave up the yummy tacos for lunch and just go with items on a plate sans tortilla. Have always had proper cholesterol amounts, but this seems logical. Have dropped a couple pounds, a bit of spare tire, and a lot of gas...

This is what prompted my previous question:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/health...html?hpt=hp_c2

[hitek79]

If you have an hour, listen to this podcast. Cholesterol is pretty much all a myth.

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/69-cl...h-jimmy-moore/

[Dantheman]

This is what prompted my previous question:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/health...html?hpt=hp_c2

That is hilariously contradictory. This:

"We tend to focus on 'quick fix' answers such as a pill ... whereas the risk reduction from lifestyle changes, such (as) exercise three-four days a week, reduces risk nearly double to that from any one of the medication interventions."

is followed immediately by this:

By changing the way doctors evaluate a patient for statin therapy, Nissen said these new guidelines will effectively double the number of Americans eligible for statin therapy, bringing the total to about 72 million.

I'm the first one to admit that most people are unwilling to make lifestyle changes, but how is the irony not glaringly obvious to the people saying this stuff? Never mind the fact that muscle soreness and fatigue are very common side effects of statins, meaning that people taking them are going to be even less likely to exercise.

[shera]

OMG, spats, I just put it together that you are gnolls/Stanton, so freaking cool. I read MarksDailyApple and some other sites regularly and of course I've seen yours before. So good!!!

Part of my son's responsibilities in the army as a buck sgt is running PT sessions and doing nutrition counseling for soldiers whose bmi's are out of spec. He eats paleo like his momma and is trying to learn the best language to counsel, which I guess you can imagine to be difficult given fear of fat, inability to economically purchase quality food, lack of skill preparing food in this day of wrapped up packages, etc. It's an uphill battle for sure.

So thanks for being part of the solution.

Also, I've switched over to milk kefir. If anybody wants a starter culture, shoot me a pm. You've got ten times more yeasts and bacteria living with you than you have cells in your body, they are your best and most important friends. I don't know anything better than kefir for feeding the relationship. And we're just starting to learn how incredibly important that relationship is, everything from immune function, to food digestion, to systemic inflammation, to mood and appetite regulation. Be happy and healthy and eat living fermented food, like kefir.

Hehe, I sound like an ad, but seriously! If you do your own it's so cheap compared to probiotics and many times better.

Paleo is the shizznizzle. I've been a foodie forever, never into processed foods and started reading and learning about our wrecked food system, kinda the weston price route. But grains and beans and too many carbs don't work for me, makes my appetite go completely wack, along with not feeling so good. Never been so much into sweets, I prefer to eat fatty and salty food. If I eat the way I enjoy, plenty of meat and some plants on the side, I'm strong and happy, ready to rumble. I do enjoy the dairy every day, but as a german I'm pretty near ground zero for lactase persistense so I don't sweat it. Maybe I'll step off for a month sometime and see if there's a difference.

The real reason I'm posting - I like fermenting. I used to ferment every kind of fruit (country wine) and got pretty good at it. But I'm moving around a lot these days and can't keep up with it for now. So instead I've been keeping a community of sugar (not milk) based kefir going for a few months now. It's a bazillion times stronger than expensive probiotic pills. I just eat a big spoon of the grains every day and don't bother bottling it. But I have so much, and have to send it down the drain, willing to mail to any maggots that want some. Just send me a pm. They are incredibly easy.

[Chugachjed]

I have been wanting to make my own kefir but have no idea where to get the grains. Is there a good source available anywhere?

[shera]

I have been wanting to make my own kefir but have no idea where to get the grains. Is there a good source available anywhere?

If you pm me your address, I will send you some.

[Spats]

steepconcrete: "Why sake? I am under the impression that sake's brewing process is very similar to beer. Both non-distilled where the mash was made converting grain starch to sugar."

White rice is far less of a cheat than sugar: it's much lower in protein, and no one has yet found a way in which rice protein is harmful, unlike wheat protein.

Furthermore, good sake is milled first to remove the outer part of the kernel, where the proteins reside: the objective is to leave a polished kernel of pure carbohydrate. The higher the sake grade, the more of the rice gets milled away: some Daiginjos are milled until only 20-30% of the original grain remains.

That being said, if you're trying to be absolutely strict, stick to potato vodka and other non-grain alcohols. (Though distilled liquors shouldn't have any meaningful protein residues left.)

Rideski: "This is what prompted my previous question:"

That article is scary. They've lowered the TC target AGAIN to 190, despite the proven fact that the lowest mortality risk is between 220 and 260 TC, with the absolute lowest point around 240. (See: J-Lit, MONICA, and any other study that actually reports total mortality.) It's a naked power grab that attempts to put EVERYONE on drugs that have, at best, a 2 in 100 chance of preventing a heart attack but a 20% chance (or more) of major side effects like muscle degeneration and dementia.

I believe that statins will, quite literally, bankrupt America. Just as the boomers hit social security, we are driving them senile with statins. The resulting explosion in incompetent elders requiring supervised care will bankrupt anything that remains of our so-called health care system.

SheRa:

Yes, that's me. I do my best: I'm glad to hear you and your family are benefiting!

Someday I need to do a "How To Eat Paleo On The Cheap" guide, with lots of slow-cooking recipes to make cheap meat taste delicious. Just made a giant batch of beef stroganoff out of a slow-cooked brisket

[Lonnie]

Archaeologists Officially Declare Collective Sigh Over “Paleo Diet”

“Look, the diet itself is sound; it’s the philosophy that’s bullshit. Eat what you want. Just leave the damn cavemen out of it.”

http://mumanu.wordpress.com/2013/11/...er-paleo-diet/

[Spats]

http://mumanu.wordpress.com/2013/11/...er-paleo-diet/

1. Fake. A well-written parody.
2. A combination of straw men and bullshit. Read Kevin's comment/reply in the article
3. The few valid points in there are already well-understood by the community. See this article I wrote over two years ago: "What Is The Paleo Diet, Anyway?" http://www.gnolls.org/2226/the-paleo...o-diet-anyway/

The same goes for that bunk Christina Warinner video, ably debunked here by an actual, published anthropologist in the very field she's misrepresenting: http://www.paleostyle.com/?p=2143

[rather ripped]

All the new talk about Cholesterol is frustrating. They are using 190 as a key number. Mine is 277 and has always been in that range except for a few years when it hit 230ish.

My numbers are Cholesterol 277, Triglycerides 107, HDL 67, LDL 188.6 and VLDL 21. I cannot take statins. Father died at age 42 from heart attack and I see this issue as a serious threat to my health.

Everyone is talking about 190 as being too low, but what about 277! FKNA!

I keep reading about dementia and its relationship to high Cholesterol. Yikes! This is going to f#$% up my skiing.

[Spats]

All the new talk about Cholesterol is frustrating. They are using 190 as a key number. Mine is 277 and has always been in that range except for a few years when it hit 230ish.

My numbers are Cholesterol 277, Triglycerides 107, HDL 67, LDL 188.6 and VLDL 21. I cannot take statins. Father died at age 42 from heart attack and I see this issue as a serious threat to my health.

Everyone is talking about 190 as being too low, but what about 277! FKNA!

I keep reading about dementia and its relationship to high Cholesterol. Yikes! This is going to f#$% up my skiing.

Actually, it's the other way around: high HDL and high cholesterol appear to be protective against dementia. Your HDL is very high at 65:

http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=801799
Results: Higher levels of HDL-C (>55 mg/dL) were associated with a decreased risk of both probable and possible AD and probable AD compared with lower HDL-C levels (hazard ratio, 0.4; 95% confidence interval, 0.2-0.9; P = .03 and hazard ratio, 0.4; 95% confidence interval, 0.2-0.9; P = .03). In addition, higher levels of total and non–HDL-C were associated with a decreased risk of AD in analyses adjusting for age, sex, education, ethnic group, and APOE e4 genotype.

(Risk ratio of 0.4 = only 40% as likely to develop AD as someone with HDL < 55.)

"Our study clearly makes the point that high cholesterol may contribute directly or indirectly to plaques in the brain," Sasaki said, "but failed treatment trials of cholesterol-lowering drugs in Alzheimer's disease means there is no simple link between lowering cholesterol and preventing Alzheimer's."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0912164005.htm

Apparently being a Swedish woman also means that high cholesterol != Alzheimer's:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/...study_suggests

Result: either high cholesterol causes dementia or low cholesterol causes dementia. Unless you're a women in Sweden. Since the results are all over the place, I'm inclined to believe that it's not a big risk factor either way and you should stop worrying about it.

(Also note: "Cholesterol test" is a grievous misnomer: it measures lipoproteins, not cholesterol, and intake of dietary cholesterol (i.e. actual cholesterol) is not at all correlated with levels of blood lipoproteins (called "blood cholesterol").

[rather ripped]

Actually, it's the other way around: high HDL and high cholesterol appear to be protective against dementia. Your HDL is very high at 65:

http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=801799
Results: Higher levels of HDL-C (>55 mg/dL) were associated with a decreased risk of both probable and possible AD and probable AD compared with lower HDL-C levels (hazard ratio, 0.4; 95% confidence interval, 0.2-0.9; P = .03 and hazard ratio, 0.4; 95% confidence interval, 0.2-0.9; P = .03). In addition, higher levels of total and non–HDL-C were associated with a decreased risk of AD in analyses adjusting for age, sex, education, ethnic group, and APOE e4 genotype.

(Risk ratio of 0.4 = only 40% as likely to develop AD as someone with HDL < 55.)

"Our study clearly makes the point that high cholesterol may contribute directly or indirectly to plaques in the brain," Sasaki said, "but failed treatment trials of cholesterol-lowering drugs in Alzheimer's disease means there is no simple link between lowering cholesterol and preventing Alzheimer's."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0912164005.htm

Apparently being a Swedish woman also means that high cholesterol != Alzheimer's:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/...study_suggests

Result: either high cholesterol causes dementia or low cholesterol causes dementia. Unless you're a women in Sweden. Since the results are all over the place, I'm inclined to believe that it's not a big risk factor either way and you should stop worrying about it.

(Also note: "Cholesterol test" is a grievous misnomer: it measures lipoproteins, not cholesterol, and intake of dietary cholesterol (i.e. actual cholesterol) is not at all correlated with levels of blood lipoproteins (called "blood cholesterol").

So I should be more concerned about the HDL and not so concerned about the total. BTW eggs cause my total number to climb. I eat 2 eggs per day 5 times per week.

Thanks so much for taking the time on this stuff.

[Spats]

Low cholesterol is just as predictive of death as high cholesterol. Some examples:

Circulation. 1992 Sep;86(3):1046-60.
Report of the Conference on Low Blood Cholesterol: Mortality Associations.
Jacobs D, Blackburn H, Higgins M, Reed D, Iso H, McMillan G, Neaton J, Nelson J, Potter J, Rifkind B, et al.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1355411
The U-shape for total mortality in men and the flat relation in women resulted largely from a positive relation of TC with coronary heart disease death and an inverse relation with deaths caused by some cancers (e.g., lung but not colon), respiratory disease, digestive disease, trauma, and residual deaths. Risk for combined noncardiovascular, noncancer causes of death decreased steadily across the range of TC.
http://healthydietsandscience.blogsp...linked-to.html
The analysis found:
(a) Women with the highest cholesterol levels (over 240 mg/dL or 6.2 mmol/L) had 13% lower death rates than women with the lowest cholesterol (below 160 mg/dL or 4.1 mmol/L).
(b) Men with the highest cholesterol levels (over 240 mg/dL or 6.2 mmol/L) had 3% lower death rates than men with the lowest cholesterol (below 160 mg/dL or 4.1 mmol/L).

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2011 Oct 26. [Epub ahead of print]
Rethinking dietary cholesterol.
Fernandez ML.
"...existing epidemiological data have clearly demonstrated that dietary cholesterol is not correlated with increased risk for CHD. Although numerous clinical studies have shown that dietary cholesterol challenges may increase plasma LDL cholesterol in certain individuals, who are more sensitive to dietary cholesterol (about one-quarter of the population), HDL cholesterol also rises resulting in the maintenance of the LDL/HDL cholesterol ratio, a key marker of CHD risk.

SUMMARY: The lines of evidence coming from current epidemiological studies and from clinical interventions utilizing different types of cholesterol challenges support the notion that the recommendations limiting dietary cholesterol should be reconsidered."

J Eval Clin Pract. 2012 February; 18(1): 159–168.
Is the use of cholesterol in mortality risk algorithms in clinical guidelines valid? Ten years prospective data from the Norwegian HUNT 2 study.
Petursson H, Sigurdsson JA, Bengtsson C, Nilsen TI, Getz L.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3303886/

The study population comprises 52 087 Norwegians, aged 20-74, who participated in the Nord-Trøndelag Health Study (HUNT 2, 1995-1997) and were followed-up on cause-specific mortality for 10 years (510 297 person-years in total). Results  Among women, cholesterol had an inverse association with all-cause mortality [hazard ratio (HR): 0.94; 95% confidence interval (CI): 0.89-0.99 per 1.0 mmol L(-1) increase] as well as CVD mortality (HR: 0.97; 95% CI: 0.88-1.07). The association with IHD mortality (HR: 1.07; 95% CI: 0.92-1.24) was not linear but seemed to follow a 'U-shaped' curve, with the highest mortality <5.0 and ≥7.0 mmol L(-1) . Among men, the association of cholesterol with mortality from CVD (HR: 1.06; 95% CI: 0.98-1.15) and in total (HR: 0.98; 95% CI: 0.93-1.03) followed a 'U-shaped' pattern.

Conclusion  Our study provides an updated epidemiological indication of possible errors in the CVD risk algorithms of many clinical guidelines. If our findings are generalizable, clinical and public health recommendations regarding the 'dangers' of cholesterol should be revised. This is especially true for women, for whom moderately elevated cholesterol (by current standards) may prove to be not only harmless but even beneficial.

===

The most predictive set of numbers you can get out of a "cholesterol test" (actually a lipoprotein test) is your TG/HDL ratio.

Circulation. 1997; 96: 2520-2525
Fasting Triglycerides, High-Density Lipoprotein, and Risk of Myocardial Infarction
J. Michael Gaziano, MD, MPH; Charles H. Hennekens, MD, DrPH; Christopher J. O’Donnell, MD, MPH; Jan L. Breslow, MD; Julie E. Buring, ScD
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/96/8/2520.long

Summary: if your TG/HDL ratio is in the top 25%, your risk is 16 times greater than if you're in the low 25%. Your LDL doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, this result is not well known, since the best way to raise your HDL is to eat lots of saturated fat, and the best way to lower your TG is to eat less carbohydrate.

[Mazderati]

All the new talk about Cholesterol is frustrating. They are using 190 as a key number. Mine is 277 and has always been in that range except for a few years when it hit 230ish.

My numbers are Cholesterol 277, Triglycerides 107, HDL 67, LDL 188.6 and VLDL 21. I cannot take statins. Father died at age 42 from heart attack and I see this issue as a serious threat to my health.

Everyone is talking about 190 as being too low, but what about 277! FKNA!

I keep reading about dementia and its relationship to high Cholesterol. Yikes! This is going to f#$% up my skiing.

Find someone without an agenda and get evaluated. You're in close proximity to some of the best physicians in the country.

[Alaskan Rover]

Re: My query into the eating of artisan breads

Look into the Weston A. Price foundation...they're big on ancestral methods of
soaking, sprouting, etc.) that increase nutrition and decrease toxin load. I find it much easier to just avoid them, but YMMV.

Thanks, I'll look into that. I already do much sprouting (mostly alfalfa, mung bean and brocolli seeds). I am trying to do more research on the eating habits of the plains 'indians' pre-european contact.

As far as artisan breads and homemade breads...I think moderation is key. Pick one day a week (for me it is Sunday) and eat, within reason, what you enjoy. I don't mean going batshit crazy on commercial junkfood...but I enjoy a warm, fresh croissant on Sunday mornings...sometimes even with a helping of Nutella...YUMMM! Some fresh homemade bread with a hearty pea soup afternoons after skiing. Maybe a calzone or homemade pizza for dinner. ALL of the above include some form of grain-derived bread or at least flour. Sure, the plains indians had none of the above...but in my opinion, they missed out on some good things foodwise.

Just because a certain anthropologic group of people did not consume certain foods does not mean that those excluded foods are necessarily bad. There is no logic in that. The key is to eat food groups in moderation. The body is fantastic at achieving equilibrium if the certain known 'comfort foods'...including honemade breads and croissants, I suppose, are moderated.

But I agree that meats like moose and buffalo and deer are fantastic and tasty sources of goodness...and when combined with a healthy amount of greens and fruits, form a diet vastly more nutritious than the heavily preservative-laden prepared food of the standard modern american diet!

[XXX-er]

I been eating these sprouted breads for a few years and it seems to go down good

http://www.silverhillsbakery.ca/