"Eat Like A Predator, Not Like Prey": Paleo In Six Easy Steps, A Motivational Guide

[mrryde]

Did the fasting thing today. Ate at 7:00 PM last night and decided to eat again when I was hungry...that was at 3:00 PM today. Wasn't a struggle at all, didn't feel overly energized, but certainly didn't feel tired either. I'll do it again later in the week.

[shroom]

its been a daily thing for me for the past year or two. i generally dont eat until ~1:30, after about a two hour workout. i can't run with much food in my system, which is how i came about this by accident.

i think it has advantages in regards to mental toughness. a lot of people think they need to eat or drink whatever during/before workouts, and this has taught me that isn't really true, at least in my experience. hunger is something that should be experienced.

[Spats]

hafilax: Perhaps I wasn't clear. I haven't been tested in many, many years, so I have no idea what my numbers are or which direction they're going.

Frankly, I don't care, because they're misleading at best, for reasons I've already discussed. If I really wanted to figure out what was going on I'd get a calcium score...but it's not worth the radiation dosage at my age. Or oxLDL, CRP, HBa1c, etc., which might actually tell me something relating to my likelihood of heart disease.

But the standard "cholesterol screening" is bunk, because 1) "LDL" is just a guesstimate based on TG and TC and has absolutely nothing to do with your actual LDL, and 2) even if it did, LDL particle size is a much more useful factor. Higher calculated "LDL" just happens to be related to particle size because it's really just calculated off of triglycerides, and high TG is strongly associated with small dense LDL, which is more likely to be oxidized.

It is sad that I understand more about this than most doctors, whose understanding is "that number is too high, take this statin drug whose logo is on all the notepads and pens in my office and which company paid for me to go to a conference in Hawaii last year".

Nevertheless, my mother's numbers improved on such a diet, so I wouldn't expect anything different from my own.

[Trackhead]

It is sad that I understand more about this than most doctors, whose understanding is "that number is too high, take this statin drug whose logo is on all the notepads and pens in my office and which company paid for me to go to a conference in Hawaii last year".

Don't forget who dropped off that note pad in your office....the cheerleaders turned drug reps. What a great way to get the attention of the doc than to use yesteryear's cheerleader fresh out of undergrad with a biology degree and a nice set of fake tits.

[concretejungle]

Nevertheless, my mother's numbers improved on such a diet, so I wouldn't expect anything different from my own.

Can you really do that? I'm trying this out Spats and have appreciated this and the starter Paleo post but stuff like this doesn't really sway anyone to your side.

TH-Thanks for the pic of Jessica Alba. It really brightened up my day.

[Trackhead]

Can you really do that? I'm trying this out Spats and have appreciated this and the starter Paleo post but stuff like this doesn't really sway anyone to your side.

TH-Thanks for the pic of Jessica Alba. It really brightened up my day.

Any time for the pic.

This term Paleo or whatever the hell you want to call it is a bit retarded. Why label it? It's not some freak diet. It's eating REAL food, not processed shit. It's essentially trying to eat what people ate a couple hundred years ago, minus the grains. It's not some big stretch of the imagination, or some radical, new diet.

Little House On Prairie: Grass fed meat from cows grazing on the land, chickens hopping around in pasture, pigs rooting and snorting, fruits and vegies that were in season and local No fancy terms like "free range" "organic" "paleo" "primal" or other stupid labels to sell books and promote blogs.

High Fructose Corn Syrup did not exist, nor did all this other shit we call "food".

[splat]

Exactly. I'm down to buffalo burgers with sauteed veggies.

But the Starbucks chai tea is my downfall.

[hafilax]

Any time for the pic.

This term Paleo or whatever the hell you want to call it is a bit retarded. Why label it? It's not some freak diet. It's eating REAL food, not processed shit. It's essentially trying to eat what people ate a couple hundred years ago, minus the grains. It's not some big stretch of the imagination, or some radical, new diet.

Little House On Prairie: Grass fed meat from cows grazing on the land, chickens hopping around in pasture, pigs rooting and snorting, fruits and vegies that were in season and local No fancy terms like "free range" "organic" "paleo" "primal" or other stupid labels to sell books and promote blogs.

High Fructose Corn Syrup did not exist, nor did all this other shit we call "food".

The issue I keep coming back to with Spats' version is the encouragement of eating specifically saturated fat. For someone like me who is at risk of clogged arteries I need an independent measure of what exactly is going on there. My father just had 7 bypasses in a 10 hour surgery. He's making a full recovery because he is otherwise incredibly healthy but I would prefer to not go through that to begin with. Given that I am at high risk it is not enough for me to simply take on faith that what I'm eating is right. I would like an impartial measure of what my diet is doing to my cardiovascular system.

I have a friend who follows the Paleo diet including fish oil supplements and has borderline high cholesterol. Luckily we don't have the problems with over-prescribing like in the States so the doctor made some recommendations to his diet which includes watching the saturated fat intake. He'll have regular tests to see what's going on. I realize that our current method of evaluating LDL:HDL isn't great but it is a data point. Maybe his LDL:HDL ratio is fine but the risks of ignoring the doctor's advice are much higher than the risks of following.

The thing with diets and health in general is that you can get the statistics and find out what is best for the average person but in the end the individual is not necessarily the average. Even within the Paleo framework there are an incredibly wide range of possible diets and each person will benefit from some customization.

[Sessiøn]

The issue I keep coming back to with Spats' version is the encouragement of eating specifically saturated fat. For someone like me who is at risk of clogged arteries I need an independent measure of what exactly is going on there. My father just had 7 bypasses in a 10 hour surgery. He's making a full recovery because he is otherwise incredibly healthy but I would prefer to not go through that to begin with. Given that I am at high risk it is not enough for me to simply take on faith that what I'm eating is right. I would like an impartial measure of what my diet is doing to my cardiovascular system.

I have a friend who follows the Paleo diet including fish oil supplements and has borderline high cholesterol. Luckily we don't have the problems with over-prescribing like in the States so the doctor made some recommendations to his diet which includes watching the saturated fat intake. He'll have regular tests to see what's going on. I realize that our current method of evaluating LDL:HDL isn't great but it is a data point. Maybe his LDL:HDL ratio is fine but the risks of ignoring the doctor's advice are much higher than the risks of not following.

The thing with diets and health in general is that you can get the statistics and find out what is best for the average person but in the end the individual is not necessarily the average. Even within the Paleo framework there are an incredibly wide range of possible diets and each person will benefit from some customization.

You just read my fucking mind. I started eating paleo the day before I got my lab results back. Along with the suggestion to lose some weight. I have high cholesterol. Now I'm more confused than ever.
This might even need another thread.

[Dantheman]

The last time I had my numbers checked was almost 2 years ago for a life insurance physical. I hadn't been into paleo eating very long at the time and still ate more grains and less saturated fat than I do now but not by a particularly large degree. I had been eating 30-40 eggs/week for a couple months. Total cholesterol was 153, I can't remember my HDL/LDL ratio but it was well into the "excellent" range. I can't remember my exact triglyceride numbers either but they were very low.

[Trackhead]

The issue I keep coming back to with Spats' version is the encouragement of eating specifically saturated fat.

Breast milk from your mother is over 50% saturated fat. If it is so bad, why did your momma make it for you?

I'm not here to convince anyone, the only thing I suggest is spending literally 6-12 months reading, researching, etc. Then form your own opinion. You won't find all the answers here, on TGR.

[Trackhead]

Read these blogs, and more importantly, read the studies that are often linked in them. They are all blogs by cardiologists, biochemists, nephrologists, radiologists, etc.

http://www.heartscanblog.org/
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/
http://nephropal.blogspot.com/
http://www.paleonu.com/
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cardiovascular.html
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/l...lie/#more-4422
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...tarianism.html

Like I said, read an article or two, every day, for six months. THEN FORM YOUR OPINION.

Spoon feeding in this thread won't work. Don't listen to a bunch of skiers, read what those who are working in the field are saying from their observations of the studies, and the effects of these diets on their patients.

[Spats]

Exactly. I'm down to buffalo burgers with sauteed veggies.

But the Starbucks chai tea is my downfall.

There's nothing wrong with tea or coffee in moderation! Just keep the soy milk out of it: use heavy cream.

Don't forget Thai curries! Coconut milk, curry paste, basil, maybe some Sriracha if it isn't hot enough already, and a hint of fish sauce...they're super-easy and delicious. I just did some red snapper in a red curry...delicious.

I know you've got Asian markets in Reno because there's even one in Carson. Mae Ploy curry paste is $$$...I've only tried the red so far, but I've got a tub of yellow I'll be breaking out next time I fix chicken.

[mrryde]

http://www.heartscanblog.org/
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/
http://nephropal.blogspot.com/
http://www.paleonu.com/
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cardiovascular.html
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/l...lie/#more-4422
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...tarianism.html
.

NICE! Adding them to my reading list. Just finishing "The Primal Blueprint" now.

[Spats]

Most of the sites Trackhead linked (plus several more!) are at the end of the original article "Eat Like A Predator." Of that list, here are my favorites:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
http://www.paleonu.com/
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...tarianism.html

Here's a great article from Dr. Michael Eades:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/c...s-old-and-new/

And a study to chew on: patients with existing heart disease put on a 50% saturated fat diet, from red meat and cheese. All measured markers of health improved.
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com.../1331.full.pdf

I'm very skeptical about Dr. Davis' Heart Scan Blog...he'll do a bunch of great posts about gluten, and then go off on a weird rant about how oatmeal or butter is toxic. (I don't eat oatmeal, but AFAIK the net acid/base balance theory is not supported by the data.) Proceed with caution.

Spoon feeding in this thread won't work. Don't listen to a bunch of skiers, read what those who are working in the field are saying from their observations of the studies, and the effects of these diets on their patients.

That's what I've been doing for years. I didn't just pull this stuff out of my butt -- and neither did Trackhead or Dantheman, who have each ended up in a very similar place, completely independently.

However, for those of you who just want to read a single book about the cholesterol, saturated fat, and statins end of things, you can do worse than Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's "The Great Cholesterol Con".

[Spats]

the risks of ignoring the doctor's advice are much higher than the risks of following.

For centuries doctors bled their patients in response to any illness. I'd say the risks of ignoring that advice were far lower than the risks of following it.

Also, which doctor? Talk to Dr. Kurt Harris, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, or Dr. Michael and Mary Eades (all MDs), just for example, and you'll get a very different answer -- one based on actual research and human biochemistry, not one based on an utterly discredited scientific fraud (Ancel Keys) and an attempt by drug companies to define all humans as sick and in need of patented statin drugs.

As Trackhead says, it's your life. You're all adults and you can make your own decisions. I'm sharing this because I am happier, stronger, and healthier than I've ever been, and I can perhaps save some other people some time compared to the months and years I spent rooting through all this stuff. That's why I write the articles.

Can you really do that? I'm trying this out Spats and have appreciated this and the starter Paleo post but stuff like this doesn't really sway anyone to your side.

I've got no recent data on myself, and I freely admit that.

But I don't think n=1 (me) is terribly important compared to the n=several hundred (or hundred thousand) in the studies I've been referencing, or the several million years of evolution that produced me, and you, and all of us.

[DJSapp]

To those concerned about the cholesterol argument, do some research on Atkins. The studies are out there, and both diets stress similar principles. Atkins was specifically developed to combat high blood pressure, cholesterol, weight and diabetes. Paleo is different, but not by a whole lot. The principles are similar as to carbs spiking blood-sugar and wrecking havoc on the body.

Sweet blog below
---------------------------------------

Week 3: energy level is level and awesome. Co-workers think I'm nuts, but f-them. Can skip lunch when I need to, no need for snacking. Lost 14 lbs to date.

Did cheat on half a slice of birthday cake at a friends party (homemade, felt the need to be polite). Very tasty, felt like shit that night and half of the next day.

I miss pizza, but I have a weight goal to hit first before I start thinking about cheating.

Red and Green Mae Ploy curry paste arrived Saturday, and holy crap they're awesome. Now I need to find cheap coconut milk in 12 packs.

[mrryde]

Originally Posted by mrryde
Can you really do that? I'm trying this out Spats and have appreciated this and the starter Paleo post but stuff like this doesn't really sway anyone to your side.

When the hell did I say this?

Congrats DJS, isn't it great not to be a slave to food!

[hafilax]

And a study to chew on: patients with existing heart disease put on a 50% saturated fat diet, from red meat and cheese. All measured markers of health improved.
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com.../1331.full.pdf

Thanks. This was along the lines of what I was looking for. The current best analytical health markers. It looks like NMR analysis is where it's at right now. Something I actually know about since it is related to my field of study. When I go see my doctor in the near future, I would like to know what are the best tests I can have done and avoid the ones that are useless. I wonder if I can request NMR analysis. (I wonder if I can figure out how to do it myself)

There have to be some valid markers of a good diet otherwise all of the studies and published papers are useless. You can't argue that the health indicators are all wrong and then point to a bunch of articles that show that the health markers improve. Which is it? No good health markers or that Paleo diets improves some health markers. How people 'feel' is a very weak indicator (see placebo video). I'm a scientist so maybe I'm overly fascinated with the numbers. I would definitely feel better with numbers indicating good health which in of itself would set up some positive placebo feedback.

I find most of the blogs very unprofessional with all of the hyperbole and prefer the journal articles. It's hard to separate opinion and exaggeration from the reasonable conclusions. I don't need someone else telling me what they say. Everyone is trying to sell their side of the argument and there's nothing quite like a little colourful language and controversy to draw in the reader.

[Trackhead]

I'm very skeptical about Dr. Davis' Heart Scan Blog...he'll do a bunch of great posts about gluten, and then go off on a weird rant about how oatmeal or butter is toxic. (I don't eat oatmeal, but AFAIK the net acid/base balance theory is not supported by the data.) Proceed with caution.

I think Dr. Davis is learning as he goes. You have to realize, he is a doc that was brainwashed conventional wisdom, and you have to give him credit for learning to treat his patients successfully with diet, and less with meds. That's a HUGE step for a doc, especially a cardiologist.

He does contradict himself at times though, but his information about Vitamin D, K2, etc is worth reading, at least for a primer.

[Trackhead]

I find most of the blogs very unprofessional with all of the hyperbole and prefer the journal articles.

Read Weston A. Price's book from 70+years ago........."Nutrition and Physical Degeneration". It's a classic, well respected book WAY ahead of it's time. It's also a good starting point.

[Spats]

There have to be some valid markers of a good diet otherwise all of the studies and published papers are useless. You can't argue that the health indicators are all wrong and then point to a bunch of articles that show that the health markers improve. Which is it? No good health markers or that Paleo diets improves some health markers.

You'll note that the health measures in the Delaware study, as measured by the traditional consumer "cholesterol test", didn't change much: triglycerides went down (good), but HDL and "LDL" stayed the same.

What changed are the measurements much more strongly associated with CHD/CVD: LDL and HDL size, VLDL size and concentration, etc. I really would have liked to have seen oxidized LDL (I tend to agree with Masterjohn that oxLDL is one of the biggest culprits), but I'll take what I can get.


In addition to the other blogs, I'll also point you at Denise Minger's excellent http://www.rawfoodsos.com for some wonderfully detailed debunks of USDA guidelines, the China Study, etc.

[Trackhead]

Enough science, pubmed citations, references, blogs, and other weeny stuff. Let's talk food!

Home made yogurt from local raw milk, fresh coconut meat, a bit of fresh coconut milk mixed with the yogurt, walnuts, berries. Mmmmmm...........


Lunch will be a big ass salad with home made feta cheese from raw milk. I'm a weenie, I'm home pasteurizing my milk.

[Rontele]

awesome post on Mark's Daily Apple today re: cold cuts.

[Game Over]

im a wennie too, the lady across the street when i was a kid almost died from contaminated raw milk. she was never the same.