Need just the SLIGHTEST amount of room in my boots...suggestions?

[justcuz]

So my feet were definantely burning today, whether it was due to early season effects doesn't really matter. I'm done with the pain. I love the fact that my boots are "tight" because I truly do feel it helps with control.

There are no boot fitters in this area. My shell fit is good....

Having said those two things; is there a way just to make a little room (lengthwise) in the boot? Maybe a little cut in the liner or something? I don't know, I'm ready to try something after three years, the boots are getting a little old anyway so if it ruins em', that's just an excuse to get new

I wear light socks, not nylon thin, but as thin as I can find. Don't need much, just a hint.

Thanks for any help. Did a search and didn't find too much....

[shirk]

My girlfriend had the same problem with her boots. She was gunna buy new boots, but I insisted on a re-fit of those boots first. At the shop I found she had removed the foot bed to get a little extra room last seaon. So her foot had no arch support and was flattening out, thus toes hitting the end. The guy at the shop hooked her up with some new Superfeet foot beds with a little heel lift. She says they feel like new boots and now has lots of room in the toes. I use Sole heat moldable foot beds and they work great.

Try making some sort of heel lift and put it under your current foot beds. Or new foot beds with good arch support.

[Evil E]

pics of your boot/liners/footbeds would be helpful for this type of question.

there is a bunch of stuff you can do to create space, but where you take the space from will make changes in boot fit, performance, and might create new hot spots that werent there before. Im a big fan of thermoflex liners and good footbeds as a bare minimum for custom bootfitting. The race thermos have a stiffer outer layer and last a bit longer. If youre looking for a ghetto fix...pull the plastic footbed from underneath your liner and see if you can shave some off of it, it might dop you into the shell a bit deeper and open up some room.

[justcuz]

Here are some pics of the boot and liner. I'll comment underneath each photo



Liner is stock, nothing changed or different about the liner.



Here is a pic of the bottom of my custom insole. I really don't feel qualified to change anything, but I would feel fine about going into the shop I bought them from and have more grinding done, but I know he did not suggest doing so.



This is a picture of the INSIDE of my boot. Notice the black thing at the bottom, I'll point this out in the next pic.



This is a pic of the black thing that's inside my boot. It's made of rubber. I'm imagining it's designed to soften some landing. I'm sure, however, that's not it's only purpose as it clearly makes things "flush" at the bottom. Hope this might help. I'm not looking to make any major changes, I was merely hoping someone had a trick like: Oh just do this dumb sh!t!

Thanks all.

[CaddyDaddy77]

The black thing is your Zeppa, or boot board. Being that you already have a custom insole and some decent ramp angle on it, adding to it would likely just push you further up in the boot, maybe giving way to some fit problems in the ankles and instep. Grinding down your Zeppa might give you alittle width but not length.

Looks like you might need a slight punch or wee-bit of a grind. Definitely prefer both of those over cutting a liner, that's just asking for cold toes in that region.

Edit, try a little extra heel lift at home to see if it helps, cut an old insole off at the heel region and tape i to the top of th Zeppa and re-insert the liner over it, might be enough to skip the shop work.

[mntlion]

good info all around.

Also make sure your heel is all the way back in the boot. Heel too far forward the toe is too far forward. A bit more padding on the tongue of the liner might help that too.

Also, for an at home job, cut open the end of the liner, on the seam, for the big toe. Make the cut on the stiching and just 1cm or so long, and tape with duct tape. (cut on the white stiching)

[Lance_K]

Clip your toenails.

That or cut them off.

[BakerBoy]

I've got those same boots (Salomon Pro Models), and they are just a teeny little bit too small. That black little thingy on the top caused me to lose both my toenails. There really isn't much to do to get rid of that thing, since you can't just grind it down. If the liners are too small (like mine) you'll definitely have to cut them, because there is zero stretch in them, and no padding to pack out. Furthermore, it is really hard to punch or grind these boots because its fairly thin plastic in the toes, so be careful.

[splat]

Thin will punch. I wouldn't start grinding with a dremmel, though. Have you compared your liner to others, like maybe a thermoflex? That said, how's your cuff fit? Extra padding on the tongue (there's lots a ready-made add-ons) will push you forward, but tighten the cuff fit. You can dump the boot board (maybe), or plane it, to drop down a bit. That bit can help with arch crunch sometimes.

[gonzo]

I have the same boots - buddy who used to work at surefoot ground the inside of the shell in the tight spots for me. haven't tried it yet on the hill but feels great putting them on inside. i may cut the liner and tape it as described above if they are still not wide enough...

[L7]

I didn't see it anywhere so where exactly do you need the room? Sounds like the toe length but I'm not sure. You yourself suggested the liner and that's probably a good start. It would be nice to see a shot of the otherside of the footbed to see where the toe imprints are.

I'm not a big fan of slicing open the front of the liner as Mtnlion suggested and I've certainly made that clear to him. (He know longer has to care though). The liner slice is certainly easy but not that much harder is heating the bottom of the liner peeling back the rubber rand and then cutting the bottom where you need the room. Reglue the rand and liner bottom then let the glue dry, then flash heat both sides and stick them together with the bottom slice open to give the room you need. A forefoot expander is handy here but your foot could probably do as well. Mtnlion knows how to do it, he's just lazy.

As mtnlion also said make sure your foot is well back. Padding in front of the tongue to drive the heel further back and hold it there is easy and effective.

If you need to mess with the shell I suggest you DO NOT grind up at the front it isn't thick enough. You're better to do a punch which can be removed of altered. Once you grind you're kind of stuck with it and quite likely can no longer punch if you didn't get enough room.

If it is toe room and you need quite a bit you could try this but stretch the liner first or there may be no point.

[BakerBoy]

Hmmm...

Extra padding on the tongue (there's lots a ready-made add-ons) will push you forward, but tighten the cuff fit.

Padding in front of the tongue to drive the heel further back and hold it there is easy and effective.

What if I only want 2mm?

[L7]

I'm pretty sure Splat meant will drive you back. You can pad the tongue closer to the bottom just in front of the ankle and not pad up the shin where cuff room starts to become more of an issue. Just make sure it tapers nice and doesn't leave a ridge that will bite when pressured.

2 mms is squat and usually not so much the room you need but stopping any movement forward.

[Darkside]

I think Caddy's idea of trying a small heel lift to take up a bit of length is a good idea. Also, is your heel staying seated well in the heel pocket? If not, a butterfly pad on the lower back of the liner could keep your foot from sliding forward, unless it already stays in there well.

[splat]

2 mms is squat and usually not so much the room you need but stopping any movement forward.

Pay no attention the measuring deficient individual in the pink tutu.

edit: \Yeah, I meant tongue pads drive your foot into the back of the boot.

[splat]

I think Caddy's idea of trying a small heel lift to take up a bit of length is a good idea. Also, is your heel staying seated well in the heel pocket? If not, a butterfly pad on the lower back of the liner could keep your foot from sliding forward, unless it already stays in there well.

Butterflies work best for added cuff cushion and narrow heels. I don't think any I've ever used kept my foot from sliding forward.

[justcuz]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Here's what I've decided to do:

The insoles are fairly new and are much more bulky that the old superfeet insoles I used to have. In a few weeks I will be heading back to Washington and will have the opportunity to see a good boot fitter when I arrive. So until then, it's back to the unsupportive ol' superfeets!

I'm leary to try some of this myself as I just do not have that much experience with fitting boots, nor does anyone else in my area.

Thanks a ton for all the help, the thread is interesting and maybe it will help out someone with some similar issues.

Edit:

I Have tried a few of the suggestions: The heel lift thing made things worse, as I think I just don't have enough room in the boots for that to work. My heel sits in the pocket so nice, that's what I like about these boots. I was close to getting a pair of Technica Diablos this year, but bailed b/c my heel moved.

I have decided to try and get some boot work done and see if I can't make these boots fit excellent.

Thanks again, mags!

[Darkside]

Butterflies work best for added cuff cushion and narrow heels. I don't think any I've ever used kept my foot from sliding forward.

I'm just commenting on what I've seen done for people at the shop. If you have a narrow heel that floats around in the heel pocket, it would make sense to me that if the heel slides forward out of the heel pocket, toes will move forward too. A butterfly placed just above the heel, in about the achiles area will keep the heel in the heel pocket better. A whole butterfly isn't needed either, just a 1/2 one placed in an upside down "u" shape does the job. Maybe this isn't the best way to go about solving a problem with toes hitting the front of the boot, but I've seen it work.

[L7]

I'm just commenting on what I've seen done for people at the shop. If you have a narrow heel that floats around in the heel pocket, it would make sense to me that if the heel slides forward out of the heel pocket, toes will move forward too. A butterfly placed just above the heel, in about the achiles area will keep the heel in the heel pocket better. A whole butterfly isn't needed either, just a 1/2 one placed in an upside down "u" shape does the job. Maybe this isn't the best way to go about solving a problem with toes hitting the front of the boot, but I've seen it work.

It's always made sense to me and apparently Splat to drive the foot back which would put the heel and ankle into narrower areas. End of problem. The butterfly might help for a narrow ankle but will always run the risk of pushing the foot forward.
I'm still assuming it was toes that were tight.

[LimesC1]

As a bootfitter of the last 12 years, I can say that there are a couple of thoughts.... first one of the most common misconceptions with older boots is that they have somehow gotten smaller. In fact often the liner has packed out and now the foot is loose and tends to slide forward in the boot. This leads to people having the misconception that the boot has somehow gotten smaller.
A proper shell fit should help confirm some things. Take the liner out, put your foot in the shell. Put your foot all the way to the front so your toe touches. Reach down into the shell behind your heel. You should be able to get about two fingers between the back of your heel and the shell wall. Anything close to that range, means you have a good size boot. If you have excessive room between the the foot and the back of the boot you may have too much room with the liner packed out.
If that is the case, locking the heel down with a butterfly pad can help lock the heel in place and keep you from sliding around as much, but splat and team are right that this does not necessarily give you any relief in the toes.
Minor heel lifts directly below your superfeet insoles or custom insoles (not underneath the liner) have been the most effective at giving just a skosh of room in the toes without affecting the instep all that much.
Since you are not around any good bootfitters, stretching is not an option (repeat... do not try this at home!). Short of the heel lift, I am not sure what you can do as a home remedy.
Cutting the liner is a quick way to force yourself into buying a new boot, as your foot will get wet, cold and just plain uncomfortable.