Back Surgery: Years Later?

[zIPPY]

Anybody out there that has had back surgery? Wondering what life is like years later. Did it work? What was the reason you chose surgery?

I have spondylolisthesis (disc on top is sliding forward: fracture between 2 discs) at L4-L5 that causes serious pain all the time. I don't want surgery but I will need it within the next 10 years I am told. So why would I wait?

[marcusling]

It was really scary when I heard those dreaded words from my doctor. Just relax and get ready for a tough ride. I had exactly what you have fifteen months ago. My 4-5 were fused using my own bone and 4 screws with two rods. My surgery was in Aug 2009 and I was skiing by January 2010. The recovery time for this procedure is said to be 12-18 months. I can still hurt a little on some days but I am soo much better than I have been for years. I didnt realize how long I had been hurting until my gf pointed out to me that I had complained about having a "bad leg day" as far back as 2007. As far as your question goes , I wouldnt wait. You will only be older and less likely to do what it takes to make a full recovery. I type about four words per minute, so just email me and we can talk .marcusling42@gmail.com[/email] . Leave your number and Ill call you back. forget all that just call 1-916 761-3114.

[zIPPY]

Thanks for the input. Exactly what I was looking for. I will hit you up.

[Meathelmet]

In short,did a hemi 2006 because of totally shattered disk between L5-S1 (and wrecked pelvis).Suffered a lot in the 4 months as we tried to avoid surgery. Worst time in my life.Did the operation,walked out of the hospital 6 hours later got instant relief to pain/nerve weirdness.


The recup did take its time: could walk fine next week,easy biking withing 1 mont,slight jogging in 2-3 months skied 7 months after surgery.Was expecting it to
be a drag but it was suprisingly good.
Next season I could ski 90% and nowadays at 99.9%.

I know that the back isnt as good as new,but well,what can you expect when you are 35... It takes its time to warm up,needs constant care with massage & streching and in general have to take care of it with work outs.
But I have no problems running,be it marathons or what, no problems hiking for several weeks daily,ride downhill or whatever. But if I lazy up, like not train or be bedridden in a flu for few days, it starts to act up and I need to get moving.
Wich isnt a bad thing actually...


Personally I would definately recommend it,but what worked for me,might not work for you.

[Buzzworthy]

Piggybacking here in this thread.
Unfortunately I too am about at the time where nothing is working and surgery is being discussed.

Hoping for some good info in here.

I know Skideeppow had back surgery, if not 2. He is still killing it.

[skideeppow]

^^ Thanks
Back surgery 2x. I am no DR, but have lots of accumulated knowledge of surgeries, rehab, alternatives to them all.
You can search for my posts. I have had 2 micro disechtomys. 6 weeks out i was skiing and 8 weeks out heli skiing in AK. Great surgeon and even greater rehab program. It really is all about the rehab. 1 week nothing after surgery, 2nd week i was on a bike trainer, pulled the handle bars so they were straight up. Rahb 2x a day 7 days a week in home multifidus and transverse work. Went to my PT 2x a week for the 4 weeks after surgery.
The surgery is relativly painless, much less so than a knee. YOu are up and walking an ohour or two after yo wake up.

Last Aug, i averted a third surgery. Had MRI and the worst herniation of the 3 . I wanted to wait and not have a 3rd surgery , because the next time around i would be looking at fusion. Also, i only had pain, no nerve issues.

I had two great surgeons look at my film. Dr Chad Prusmack, the neuro surgeon for the Broncos in Denver. And Dr Corneman at Steadman Hawkins. Both said i needed another micro disc.

I toughed it our for 2.5 months, rehad, surfing. I dealt with a lot of pain. I got married in San Jose in NOv and i swear that right after the wedding, boom, all the pain ceased. Why was that? Well stress plays a heavy hand in back pain. I would reacommened reading Dr John Sarno's books.

So moral of the story, if you can deal with the pain and there is no neurological problems (drop foot, quada equina, both of which i had in frist surgeries) take the high rode. If these symptoms occur i would stay positive and try and beat the pain.

[Buzzworthy]

Thanks M!
Laurant once told me you are one of the strongest chargers on this board. And with 2 back surgeries.

[skideeppow]

Ahh thanks, that is real nice of him and you. Had a great trip to ak with him a long while ago.
hope you heel up.
it is funny, my mri right now is a disaster, but no pain. I have read studies that once that gell gets into the spinal canal and starts pushing agains the nerves, a small % of disc can actual "dry out" and the pressure can be relieved.
I thought that is what happened to me, but after my last mri who the fuck know.

Everyone reacts differently. People with bad MRI have no pain, people with great looking mir can not even move.

I believe splat has had some homeopathic remedies that work. The problem is they take time. ANd if you are in that much pain, it is hard to wait it out.

Lastly, i would not do more than 2 cortizone injections a year. That shit desctroys soft tissue in your body.
L8r

[Buzzworthy]

Yeah, I am done with steroid shots since they did pretty much nothing a few weeks ago.
Grinning and bearing, stretching and watching weight again. Sneaked on 10 pounds after I dropped 15 and that is no good on the back. BUT, hard to get it back off exercising in pain like this.

I am going to see several specialists over the next few months and see what my best options are.

Hope to meet you one day M, heard nothing but nice things from quality peeps here.

And I need another MRI, thinking wait till first of year now for insurance so I meet my deduct next year and get it all taken care of.

[skideeppow]

where do you live? up in hood river?

[Buzzworthy]

where do you live? up in hood river?

SLC. Been to Hood several times to see Natty though.
Am a SoliSundayer.

[Meathelmet]

Grinning and bearing, stretching and watching weight again. Sneaked on 10 pounds after I dropped 15 and that is no good on the back. BUT, hard to get it back off exercising in pain like this.

Remember you talking about the issues way back when I was gimped. Stand strong,mang.

Out of curiosity: Have you tried a combo of PT+antidepressants? You probably have tried all the tricks in the book by now,just checking..
If you have tried and done with it,maybe someone else will find more tools to their box. So please,dont take this the wrong way,just sharing some experiences..



A friend suffered a blown disk (mogul rider) and it got quite bad. Decided not to operate,took the cortisones,waited several months in pain and started to have issues with the painkillers.
So,in short,his head caved in. They decide to do "one more try" with the doc, one of the most established back specialists here and the went anti dep route.
In short,they made a 2 week start with the meds,and after they started kicking in they started a intense 2 month fysio.
Did bloody miracles to him. I think he stayed on the meds for 6-7 months while continuing the rehab.



The point being, when you have pains for extended periods of time, your brain gets fucked.I know. The pain practically burns into your brain. Even with the actual pain removed,the brain continues to believe you are still fucked. The antidepressants in these cases (if I remember right,regular seratonin inhibitors?) start to "normalize" the brain so it is not all wound up and over reactive to pain signals, thus freeing you to move and exercise,wich in turn helps the rehab.
The other benefit is that when dealing with chronic pain, you are probably getting affected by the pain and getting depressed and that affects your motivation to PT, makes you more suspectible to pain and in general affects your quality of life. Vicious circle.
When friend told about his experience, he just stated that he wasnt "high" or anything, just that he wasnt so preoccupied with the pain, slept better and in general had a more normal life, thus enabling him to do things instead of lying home alone bedridden in pain.


I still bear the marks in my from my half year episode from 5 years ago.
If I feel a twinge in my back (my belt scraching,mosquito stinging...) I freak out. It is a really weird feeling,allmost tears coming to eyes,being like "OH FUCK!NOT AGAIN!!" ,hell,getting all catatonic for a few seconds.

And in general being super protective of the back when lifting or kids jumping on trying to get piggyback...some days it feels like having a PTSD,wich I probably have.



But that said,I have been lucky and living now pretty much normal life for 5 years.
Big renovating projects, weekends in the forrest with a chainsaw,skiing the 50-100 days season, touring ,running etc. It just requires that I maintain my back regulary:
-Massage 2-3 times a month (especially thighs & arse!)
-daily stretching
-keeping fit (running,biking,gym) 4-6 days a week
-getting a new bed,adjusting my sleeping style (VERY Important!)
-adjusting ergonomy (car,home,computer,whatever)
-stop being a fool (no jumping etc..)
-living a varied,active,happy life.

[Buzzworthy]

Nothing taken wrong way, in fact, are you in my head???

Not only am I on antideps because of several things, including getting so down this summer I got to the depressed point of not wanting to leave the house. It got pretty bad.

I am also on anti-anxiety to boot. It helps me sleep and helps to keep my mind off 24/7 pain. And it calms me. When you hurt, it is easy to fly off the handle, like I have been for too many months. Not good for work either. I really have to keep it in check.

My mood is up, partly as there are 40" up top in SLC here. Opening day for Soli for my pass will be Sunday Nov 14. Stoked to get out, after too many months not wanting out. Something must be working.

With the degeneration surgery is becoming inevitable in my mind.
Want to get back on the snow even if it is only at 50% at the beginning of the year. If I get fit, I may push a little bit. Still grounded though.

And I COMPLETELY understand any twinge or pull in the back and saying "OH FUCK NO, NOT AGAIN". Said this way too many times for my taste.

I am trying to get my head back in the game to then fix up the back.
Thanks Meat!

[Meathelmet]

Nothing taken wrong way, in fact, are you in my head???

Not only am I on antideps because of several things, including getting so down this summer I got to the depressed point of not wanting to leave the house. It got pretty bad.

Oh crap! So you definately know the score!
Damn!

(and hopefully I am not in your head either,Buzz!)



Years ago,after my experiences I was thinking of doing a short essay,or you know,release a pamphlet on the the topic. You know,pain and dealing with it? A lot of stories (especially on this site!) of people getting fucked up and learning to cope with it. Wrote it over couple of times and discarded because it sounded so fucking lame and pretentious.Living in,not with, the pain 25/7 is a hell.

But at some point I realized that the interwebz in itself is (at that point was for me) one of my largest problems. With few clicks I could find the most miserable forums (not TGR!) with injuries,full of shells that used to be humans,hordes of vicodin addicts and the like, with some griefers thrown with their hobby injury that they nurtured like a child that they never had. Fuck it..
Searching for info on some of the back issues was a real mindfuck.
Internet really can be a hell,if you dwell too much into it. Stay out of it,kids.


So,I took the info I got from docs,physios, friends and foremost from my self, and continued living. Doing actively stuff that would dodge the pain. Going to the beach and watch teenage nubilees,go extempore to a art exhibition,buy a house,get married etc... You know the score?
Just.Doing.Stuff.


And again I sound smug and pompous...
Damn.

If I get fit, I may push a little bit.

When. Not if. When.

[Buzzworthy]

Yes, good point, when!

[BC13]

^^ Thanks
Back surgery 2x. I am no DR, but have lots of accumulated knowledge of surgeries, rehab, alternatives to them all.
You can search for my posts. I have had 2 micro disechtomys. 6 weeks out i was skiing and 8 weeks out heli skiing in AK. Great surgeon and even greater rehab program. It really is all about the rehab. 1 week nothing after surgery, 2nd week i was on a bike trainer, pulled the handle bars so they were straight up. Rahb 2x a day 7 days a week in home multifidus and transverse work. Went to my PT 2x a week for the 4 weeks after surgery.
The surgery is relativly painless, much less so than a knee. YOu are up and walking an ohour or two after yo wake up.

Last Aug, i averted a third surgery. Had MRI and the worst herniation of the 3 . I wanted to wait and not have a 3rd surgery , because the next time around i would be looking at fusion. Also, i only had pain, no nerve issues.

I had two great surgeons look at my film. Dr Chad Prusmack, the neuro surgeon for the Broncos in Denver. And Dr Corneman at Steadman Hawkins. Both said i needed another micro disc.

I toughed it our for 2.5 months, rehad, surfing. I dealt with a lot of pain. I got married in San Jose in NOv and i swear that right after the wedding, boom, all the pain ceased. Why was that? Well stress plays a heavy hand in back pain. I would reacommened reading Dr John Sarno's books.

So moral of the story, if you can deal with the pain and there is no neurological problems (drop foot, quada equina, both of which i had in frist surgeries) take the high rode. If these symptoms occur i would stay positive and try and beat the pain.

I had just about an identical experience to Skideepoows, fortunately minus one chapter.

The first time around (herniated L4/L5 at age 28) I waited two years for surgery. I tried everything (PT, Chiro, Anti Depressants for Myo Fasial(sp) pain, religous work out routines) and nothing worked until surgery. As said above the micro lamanectomies or disectomies are pretty short and sweet. It was not until the moment I woke up from surgery that I realized how much pain I had been in for two years. I was 100% pain free after surgery. The surgical pain was slim to nil. Nothing like getting a knee scoped, let alone an ACL repair. I started to have reocurring issues with back spasms within a few weeks of surgery. Those intermittant spasms lasted into my mid 30s.

About 5 years later (age 33) I blew L5/S1 and was in level 10 pain (on fire from Ass to Toes). Interestingly, there is an increased risk of blowing an adjacent disk after a disk repair surgery. My doc scheduled me for surgery 7 days out and put me on a steroid pack. I got some relief from the steroids and put off surgery. Within 3 months I was free of any nerve pain. For the next few years I would occasionally get some leg pain/numbness when I pushed it to hard. The aforementioned spasms continued.

I am now 41. Due to family and work responsibilities I have really dialed back the level at which I attack sports. I was a 6 day a week gym/activity guy for 20 years. When I had my most severe back problems I was in my best physical condition (strength, cardio, lean muscle). I became the father of twins a couple years ago and as a result have been to the gym 4 times in two years and put on about 25 pounds of pure boiler. Go figure, I basically quit working out and my back pain is 99% gone. I sense my body found an equilibrium, that constant work outs and strenuous activities would not allow it to find. Or perhaps carrying two babies/toddlers has been the best medicine for my core. Regardless, I have not had ANY significant back episodes in over two years. This is how much my focus has changed. I broke my leg and partially tore my Patella and two knee ligaments skiing last January. I am trying to mentally prepare myself to trust my leg again. I had not even thought about mt back until I read your post. So, I have gone from pretty much a solid decade of nerve pain/spasms/worrying when the next flair up would occur, to not even thinking about the back.

Everyone responds to back pain and back injuries differently. Here are some insights I picked up over the past 13 years.

1) Everyone preached abs, abs, abs to strengthen my core. Nothing screwed me up worse than spending 2 hours a week doing ab and core excercises. I threw my core strength out of balance and suffered frequent muscle spasms as a result. Find your own balance point regarding core strength. YOU could be a guy who needs less core work rather than more.

2) As mentioned by SDP, stress plays a huge role. Find a coping mechanism that works for you.

3) Don't ever sleep on your stomach. Sleep with a pillow between your legs and hug one if you need to in order to keep you from rolling on your stomach. Pay attention to how you feel when you lay on one side versus the other. And get a really good bed.

4) You have to find your own path regarding surgery. If you've tried everything but the knife and the pain has you mentally fried, I'd really think about going for the surgery.

5) It WILL get better. I thought it never would. I feared reaching into a cabinet for a glass, thinking the slight bend and reach might bring me to my knees. I thought carrying kids would wreck me. I'm better, and you will be too.

Hang in there man, your not crazy, you're just in pain.

[skideeppow]

3) Don't ever sleep on your stomach. Sleep with a pillow between your legs and hug one if you need to in order to keep you from rolling on your stomach. Pay attention to how you feel when you lay on one side versus the other. And get a really good bed.

Great Point, i forgot all about that one.

[Meathelmet]

Great Point, i forgot all about that one.

Albeit with a small caveat...

I personally are a tummy sleeper. Just cant sleep on my back and sleeping longer periods on the side with the pillow between knees is awkward.
So I sleep on my stomach with a flat pillow under me.

In general I have had problems sleeping with the übersuper soft and comfy american style beds. Even one night is enough. Futons, Karrimats, bare ground is ok,but soft beds...njet.
So for me a hard/stiff bed is the only way to go.

The difference between a meh and gooood bed is enormous,peeps,make sure you have one that suits you.

[Buzzworthy]

Awesome thread so far, thanks also to BC13. Your back and mine are extremely similar in injury. Nail hit on head for sure.

Thanks all, and zippy, sorry for the hijack, but great info in here.

I wish another mag that PMd me would chime in on his progress so far. He may not want it here though.
He had some very encouraging info for me as well.

[Lurch]

I had back surgery for a herniated disc in 1996. I took my time returning to activity after the surgery. I wore the Dr. provided back brace religiously after the surgery and didn't ski with out for ~5 seasons. It took a few years before I was 100% but now I have no back issues worse then the average Joe. I just ran a marathon and I do Triathlons with out issue.

[DeutschBag]

I know this is an older thread, but wanted to comment on the topic of the antidepressants. I had been taking Zoloft (Sertraline) to manage anxiety and stress for about the past six months. My plan had been to take it for only a short period and then get off of it for good after things had settled down. I'm just not a big fan a prescription drugs and never thought I'd be taking an anti-depressant, but dammit, it worked. However, I did begin weening myself off of it about two weeks ago. Yesterday was the fourth day I had been completely off of the drug, and boy did I notice a difference! I was edgy, pissy, and wanted to tear everyone's head off who looked at me. It didn't help that it felt like my L4/L5 herniation was ready to burst out of my back and that my entire upper back and neck was on fire. As much as I want to quit the drug, I don't think now is a good time while dealing with my back injury. I'm picking up a refill later today and hope it can level me back out. Excuse my french, but I am fucking miserable right now.

[spanghew]

I herniated l4&5 three years ago. Dr recommended surgery, but l&i would only pay for cortisone. Several months of doing nothing but riding my bike had me feeling ok; the shot either helped or came along when I was feeling better without it.

Just last week, aftet two years of never thinking about my back--skiing, climbing, lifting heavy objects--i woke up unable to stand up straight, no reason for it at all. Exercises got me able to backpack a week later, have climbed a few moderate routes and i feel back to normal, but now i don't trust it. Resumption of back pain was a big psychological hit, remembering how long I was gimped and in pain.

Whether this would have happened if I'd gone the surgical route instead, i wish I knew.

[DeutschBag]

Sorry to hear that, Ann. I keep hearing from doctors and people who have experienced back pain and herniations "that things will get better in a week or two". Ummm, it's been 8 weeks now that I have been severely debilitated and in pain and things are not getting better. In fact, just a couple of hours of light walking yesterday set things off pretty bad again.

I know exactly what you mean by not trusting your back. My back 'went out' on me a two years ago and it hasn't been the same since. I pretty much skied all last winter with little problem, but something like stepping up to get in the shower at my house would send me to the couch for a day or two. I mean, how can you make any decisions off of something as finicky as that? I really don't want another surgery (had enough on knees and other body parts), but with as active as I like to be, I'm not sure what choice I will have. Stop all outdoor activities? Nah, 'cause then I'd throw my back out clipping my toenails or something mundane like that. This is not a fun way to live.

My mom just got out here to Germany to visit my wife and I for a couple of weeks.. Playing tour guide during this time is going to suck, but I have smartly planned the first stop to be in Amsterdam on Tuesday. I know a great bakery off the beaten path that sells wonderful 'special' pastries. These things helped knock out my gout pain (which is actually worse than back pain), so I'm stocking up and will be liberally chowing them down when I don't have to drive. I can't let this latest injury stop me from living. Besides, I'm a photographer/artist and can't do much work from the couch in my living room.

Hope you get to feeling better, Ann.

[splat]

I herniated l4&5 three years ago. Dr recommended surgery, but l&i would only pay for cortisone. Several months of doing nothing but riding my bike had me feeling ok; the shot either helped or came along when I was feeling better without it.

Just last week, aftet two years of never thinking about my back--skiing, climbing, lifting heavy objects--i woke up unable to stand up straight, no reason for it at all. Exercises got me able to backpack a week later, have climbed a few moderate routes and i feel back to normal, but now i don't trust it. Resumption of back pain was a big psychological hit, remembering how long I was gimped and in pain.

Whether this would have happened if I'd gone the surgical route instead, i wish I knew.

There's some rotational hip thrust/arch combos done in circles while lying on a floor that really help that low back. Just envision what I said and try it. I was in agony for years and it has been the most instantaneous low back cure I've ever done. I'm going to have to get some pics of this move...

[DeutschBag]

I'm going to have to get some pics of this move...

Please do. Just, please, not x-rated

I can't believe just slowly walking around for 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there, could worsen things so much for me. A lot of people have been telling me to go out for short walks. I don't know if my body is ready for that quite yet, let alone any other PT-type therapies. Really tired of this.......