VERTICAL TOE RELEASE - Does it matter?

[stuckathuntermtn]

The 14 and down Look toe pieces release straight up, and it's upward release tension is set by your din, since the tow wings are basically just connected to one spring. From pushing on my 912, they definitely go straight up without having to go to the side. I'm pretty sure Tyrolias can go straight up too. The upward release tension in Tyrolias and Driver tows seems to depend on model type. I have no idea about the 15-18 pivots. I was under the impression that they couldn't so if you land a cliff switch, or were squatting way back in a DH race, recovering from getting knocked off balance, etc. you wouldn't release.
It seems like Marker and Quadraxes (Z included) and other low end garbage has to turn to the side before it releases upward, but with less lateral play or boot contact than a higher end binding, it just releases anyway.
And I thought you were most likely to be injured in a backwards twisting fall in the lift line? That's about the only time I do it. I'm also a klutz.
And Damian Sanders, lol, where've you been with your JONG self?

[karpiel]

I had a diagonal heel and toe, they would release at odd times. One time in double ejection, go flying fashion for no legit reason. Would frequently lose a ski coming to a quick stop, it would just fly off and I'd finish the stop on one ski.

Switched to a Look/rossi single release style and never had another problem.

[Core Shot]

I had a diagonal heel and toe, they would release at odd times. One time in double ejection, go flying fashion for no legit reason. Would frequently lose a ski coming to a quick stop, it would just fly off and I'd finish the stop on one ski.

Switched to a Look/rossi single release style and never had another problem.

Agreed, the Diagonal Heel is not available on their higher DIN bindings for that reason.

The higher DIN bindings also have a different diagonal toe (same one used on world cup racers).

[TWINS]

I buried the tails exactly backwards down the fall line in a mogul field and thought I broke my legs off at the boot top.

Same thing here.Laying upside down with 1 tail burried in the snow head first down the fall line.Waiting forever it seems for a slight lateral upward release to save my leg.It did release after breaking my Fibula.
Tyrolias /Mojo 15's might have saved my leg so I tried them the next season.Ended up not liking the sloppy interface on the toe mechanism though.

[The SMP]

Same thing here.Laying upside down with 1 tail burried in the snow head first down the fall line.Waiting forever it seems for a slight lateral upward release to save my leg.It did release after breaking my Fibula.
Tyrolias /Mojo 15's might have saved my leg so I tried them the next season.Ended up not liking the sloppy interface on the toe mechanism though.

Are you talking about heel release? I'm confused to how this type of fall would trigger an upward toe release...

[TWINS]

Picture the tail of a ski stuck in the snow with the base facing uphill.The weight of your body is pushing the boot heel down and pulling up on the boot toe.I was happy to get away with what I did.Could have easily been a tib/fib break.

[karpiel]

Agreed, the Diagonal Heel is not available on their higher DIN bindings for that reason.

The higher DIN bindings also have a different diagonal toe (same one used on world cup racers).

These had the race diagonal toe with the diagonal heel (HD14) for some reason. They were my first ever alpine binding coming from tele, didn't know shit about them.

Didn't know (until now) that there was a non diagonal heel.


I gave them to my mom and she couldn't be happier.

[JRainey]

I just got some 4frnt deadbolt 15s out of necessity. The are they same design as the world cup tyrolias minus the track afd. I went to a backcountry freestyle comp in Pucon this weekend. First jump landed back seat, back slapped, pop, out came the toe and it felt like straight vertical angle. Toe din was on 9, i'm 150, it seemed like it came out a little too easy. In this case it wasn't a problem because I was already stopped, but it i back slapped off a cliff or something i wouldn't want the same thing to happen. It might have been a good release though because my knee was a little sore afterwards.

It still makes my think I would want to turn up the din if I keep the bindings. I ran fks all last season at a toe setting of 8 and heel of 10 and never came out ounce even in some rag dolls. But I was always glad they stayed on. The season before I was on fis 914s and had to keep the toe on 10 and the heel on 12 to feel secure. I'm guess it's just because the fks are so elastic.

As far as pure pre-releases on the tyrolias. They gained my trust well enough going over refrozen tracks and icy shit at speeds were losing a ski would have been bad. It's just kinda hard to trust a binding you haven't used ever. It's a process i guess.

[Beyond]

...but it i back slapped off a cliff or something i wouldn't want the same thing to happen. It might have been a good release though because my knee was a little sore afterwards.

Quoted for essential dilemma: A toe that gives you more knee protection (dead easy to blow ACL's coming down backseat with ligs already taut) by releasing may be the same binding that sends you whirling into space off a cliff because it "prereleases" under same load. Meaning, it released when it was designed to, but you didn't want it to.

IMO, there is no solution. No binding that equally protects your legs and avoids prereleases. People who say their binding does both just haven't run into the fall - or cliff - that'll test that.

So no brainer solution: If your mission includes frequent no-release zones, pick a binding that obeys. Regardless of the possible cost to your anatomy. Blown ACl's are better than severed spines. Or funerals. OTOH, if your mission doesn't, pick a binding that releases when your knee needs it to, even if that's gonna create some yard sales.

[newe english]

QFT

So no brainer solution: If your mission includes frequent no-release zones, pick a binding that obeys. Regardless of the possible cost to your anatomy. Blown ACl's are better than severed spines. Or funerals. OTOH, if your mission doesn't, pick a binding that releases when your knee needs it to, even if that's gonna create some yard sales.

And to the comment about how blowing your ACL is for intermediates, I'd say if you don't know at least a couple "expert skiers" that have blown their knees you probably need to go skiing more. It happens all the time unfortunately, I'm just thankful I still have virgin knees.

[Climber Joe]

I have a couple friends with horror stories involving broken fibula where vert toe release would have been quite handy to have.

As for reliability and gnarability. The release mechanism in each toe wing takes a full din rating to release, and upwards takes both, so double. So on my Head mojo 18x, if I have the din set at 11, it takes a force double that to release upwards.

Unlike the rest of you jongs, I clearly never ski in the backseat, so it doesn't matter, but I have not had any problems with pre-release of the toe in any direction. And in fact I like these bindings more than any I have ever owned (including FKS, because the damn brakes are so hard to get a hold of.)

And since I am clearly the gnarest one of them all, I am right, and you are suck.




Forgot to mention. I was dropping into a 1000ft vert, 45ish degree chute last season, and turned out of the toe piece. Turns out my buddy had used them (told him he could) and hadn't set the forward pressure back. I didn't check, and I had to sidestep 30 feet back up to my ski (somehow didn't fall down), reset the forward pressure (I have it marked) then put it back on, make a turn, take the other ski off, do the same, and then continue. It was socked in, and my buddy thought I had died cuz he couldn't hear me. He had already gotten his beacon out and started "running" back up the couloir. He was pissed when I came skiing out of the fog.

[zartagen]

I've released my toes on my jesters vertically a few times. I'm pretty sure it was my heel pushing back on the forward pressure spring and my boot pulling away from the toe piece, not a designed vertical toe release. I was trying to get a backflip around on a tiny jump and kept hitting my tips on the landing. Skis would come off, and then I would complete the flip to land on my feet, sans skis. I'm definitely glad they came off, because if they stayed on, it would have ended in a painful faceplant.

Just adding to the list of instances where you might want vertical toe release, designed that way, or not.

[jfost]

...Just adding to the list of instances where you might want vertical toe release, designed that way, or not.

*now adding "backflip-specific setup" to quiver this year*