4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

[kc_7777]

Pretty excited to try my new 2012-13 186 Rens next year. But I kept my 184 Bibbys too. Glad I did - some days it is nice to not have to be super "on" all the time. Other times the challenge is good.

Got some Cochise boots with both AT and alpine soles. So both Rens and Bibbys mounted with Sollyfits (STH and Radicals) for Baker sidecountry. Goodbye MFD.

K

[StopMakingSense]

Pretty excited to try my new 2012-13 186 Rens next year. But I kept my 184 Bibbys too. Glad I did - some days it is nice to not have to be super "on" all the time. Other times the challenge is good.

Got some Cochise boots with both AT and alpine soles. So both Rens and Bibbys mounted with Sollyfits (STH and Radicals) for Baker sidecountry. Goodbye MFD.

K

Sounds good to me... I like QuiverKillers (simple and less stack height) but to each their own, you're going to have a blast either way

[Bird Blaster]

enjoy them man - they rock!!!!

[DudeLebowSKI]

I'm kinda bummed out. After 3 seasons, 2 models (OG's and 2013) and a love hate/relationship (mostly love) with the Rens, I am sad to say I've chosen to move on. There's no doubt that on a perfect day of steep pow or the average resort day of charging mixed conditions they rock. Unfortunately, I have had my my last day of trying to muscle them around in mank, breakable crust or unpredicatable snow. When the snow is unpredictable, the Rens seem to follow suit. I know I know, it's the skier...I suck. I could suck less on a different ski however. I need something more forgiving for unpredictable snow. My parting note would be a plea to 4FRNT soften the first 30-40cms in the tip and the last 30cms in the tail. That would address both float and forgiveness.

Still awesome skis. Enjoy.

[JRainey]

That's why god made quivers.

[DudeLebowSKI]

That's why god made quivers.

I agree. I have a huge quiver and I'll be keeping my Renegades. I just won't be focusing as much time on them.

[JRainey]

I feel ya. I only take them out when it's time to crush. EHPs for the rest.

[otto parts]

I'm kinda bummed out. After 3 seasons, 2 models (OG's and 2013) and a love hate/relationship (mostly love) with the Rens, I am sad to say I've chosen to move on. There's no doubt that on a perfect day of steep pow or the average resort day of charging mixed conditions they rock. Unfortunately, I have had my my last day of trying to muscle them around in mank, breakable crust or unpredicatable snow. When the snow is unpredictable, the Rens seem to follow suit. I know I know, it's the skier...I suck. I could suck less on a different ski however. I need something more forgiving for unpredictable snow. My parting note would be a plea to 4FRNT soften the first 30-40cms in the tip and the last 30cms in the tail. That would address both float and forgiveness.

Still awesome skis. Enjoy.

Exactly the reason I pushed Splat for the softer tip in the Kusala (and a bit more rise). Maybe our AK trips will intersect this year....

[kc_7777]

So....

Did some mounting today.

Back in June I had bought my first pairs of Sollyfits for both my new 186 Rens and my 187 Hojis. Sollyfits mounting went perfect.

Dynafit Radical 12s on the Rens and Solly STH 16s on the Hojis.......both mounted 87cm from tail (per Hoji). One sweet thing is the boot center works perfect on both the Dynafits and the STHs as my Tecnica Cochise boots can fit both bindings.....tech sole and din sole.

[Altaholic]

I don't wanna be called a JONG, I looked through this thread, but since it is HUGE I could not find the mounting answer I wanted.

I lucked out this summer on Geartrade getting some new & undrilled '11-'12 196cm Rens (from some moron who bought them on bc.com & figured out he was not man enough for the skis) for $343 shipped (I hit the lottery for brand new Renegades). I called 4Frnt & they said 90 cm from tail. Comparing it to my 194 Salomon El Dictators (mounted on the line), the recommended seems a little far up. I know the Renegade & El Dictator are two different kinds of of skis to charge the mountain with.

I know they are two different types of skis (Dictator is a tradition 114mm waist ski slight tip rocker & flat tail), I love the 194 El Dictator & I'm excited about 196 Renegade. Has anyone had good luck going 87 or 88 cm from the tail??? I'm 5'11/180 lbs., I am going on season 12 out west (first 7 in AltaBird & now going on 5 seasons in Jackson), pretty much I do strictly big mountain style stuff. I'm gonna put race bindings on these, not an AT setup.

Thanks for your input.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ the mount point on the 196 looked too far forward for my taste.

however, i've got no time on them so no help here.

[markcjr]

Got a line on some 2011/12 raven 196's in the wrapper. Have there been any major changes to the ski that would warrent paying a bit more for last years or this years?

[Supermoon]

Got a line on some 2011/12 raven 196's in the wrapper. Have there been any major changes to the ski that would warrent paying a bit more for last years or this years?

They definitely have improved year over year with the build quality, but it's iterative, not monumental. It all depends on how cheap you can get them.

The new ones will ski a bit better I think because they have more reverse camber built in.


As far as mounting goes, the recommended point makes you ski them more centered which highlights their maneuverability and quickness edge to edge. It does take some time to dial that in though.

If you want to ski from your shins more I would move it back to 88 or 89.

[markcjr]

Hmm, yeah I want the most rocker they offer. Maybe new is better. I'll go take a look at them and we what the profile looks like

[Supermoon]

Hmm, yeah I want the most rocker they offer. Maybe new is better. I'll go take a look at them and we what the profile looks like

Yeah, it's not a ton more. Just a bit

[Altaholic]

They definitely have improved year over year with the build quality, but it's iterative, not monumental. It all depends on how cheap you can get them.

The new ones will ski a bit better I think because they have more reverse camber built in.


As far as mounting goes, the recommended point makes you ski them more centered which highlights their maneuverability and quickness edge to edge. It does take some time to dial that in though.

If you want to ski from your shins more I would move it back to 88 or 89.

That is what I was thinking, probably go with 88 cm from tail. Being different than my other two fun fat skis (191 Bluehouse Shoots/194 Salomon El Dictator), they are a traditional camber flat tail fat ski with early rise rocker, I knew they would be a little different when I got them.

[otto parts]

Alta, there's been tons of discussion about this, but it boils down to this:
On the 186, Hoji skis it fwd at 88 from tail, the other designer at 86 or 85.
So if 4frnt says 90, that's pretty far back already (88+10/2 would be 93)

[Bobcat Sig]

Alta, there's been tons of discussion about this, but it boils down to this:
On the 186, Hoji skis it fwd at 88 from tail, the other designer at 86 or 85.
So if 4frnt says 90, that's pretty far back already (88+10/2 would be 93)

I believe he updated it to 87 from the tail on the 186.

[Altaholic]

I'm not a huge fan of on the line at 90 cm from tail, unless someones tells me it the spot to mount at. Not looking at putting them too from the 90cm spot, just want something I enjoy. I could be just over thinking things that could not be that major. Anyone had luck with 88/89cm from tail??? I want to make sure before I mount them up.

[Bobcat Sig]

I'm not a huge fan of on the line at 90 cm from tail, unless someones tells me it the spot to mount at. Not looking at putting them too from the 90cm spot, just want something I enjoy. I could be just over thinking things that could not be that major. Anyone had luck with 88/89cm from tail??? I want to make sure before I mount them up.

Which length are you asking about; 186 or 196?

[auvgeek]

Alta, there's been tons of discussion about this, but it boils down to this:
On the 186, Hoji skis it fwd at 88 from tail, the other designer at 86 or 85.
So if 4frnt says 90, that's pretty far back already (88+10/2 would be 93)

Hoji skis the 186 at 87 from the tail. His OG recommended mount was 88, but he moved back a cm for skinning and decided he liked them better there. Just FWIW.

Personally, I think the centered stance is one of the best things about the Renegade. After skiing the 186 at 87 for a few seasons, I think that mount point is pretty perfect for the way the ski was designed. Maybe I'd consider trying 86, but no way I'd want to move further back than that. I think mounting the 196 further back than about 90 from the tail would be messing with the way the ski was designed to ski (neutral stance with lateral motion as the primary method of turn initiation). If you're going to do that, you might as well be on a ski that was designed to be driven from the tips (202 L138, 196 Lhasa Pow, 193 C&D, etc.) Also: you're not a huge dude. You're about my size, maybe 15# heavier. I don't think you'll have an issue sinking the tips. Just trust the mount point. It does look very far forward, but it works!

Edit 2: The Rens are a completely different animal than a ski that you drive from the tips. It takes adjusting to the neutral stance and committing to it. The first time I skied the 186 Rens after skiing the 191 BGs for a while, I went over the handlebars quite a few times until I adjusted my stance to not drive them from the tips. But once you adjust, they ski SO well!

[Altaholic]

Hoji skis the 186 at 87 from the tail. His OG recommended mount was 88, but he moved back a cm for skinning and decided he liked them better there. Just FWIW.

Personally, I think the centered stance is one of the best things about the Renegade. After skiing the 186 at 87 for a few seasons, I think that mount point is pretty perfect for the way the ski was designed. Maybe I'd consider trying 86, but no way I'd want to move further back than that. I think mounting the 196 further back than about 90 from the tail would be messing with the way the ski was designed to ski (neutral stance with lateral motion as the primary method of turn initiation). If you're going to do that, you might as well be on a ski that was designed to be driven from the tips (202 L138, 196 Lhasa Pow, 193 C&D, etc.) Also: you're not a huge dude. You're about my size, maybe 15# heavier. I don't think you'll have an issue sinking the tips. Just trust the mount point. It does look very far forward, but it works!

Edit 2: The Rens are a completely different animal than a ski that you drive from the tips. It takes adjusting to the neutral stance and committing to it. The first time I skied the 186 Rens after skiing the 191 BGs for a while, I went over the handlebars quite a few times until I adjusted my stance to not drive them from the tips. But once you adjust, they ski SO well!

Good point, I did not think about it that way, in some some way it looked like a park mounting. Maybe I'm looking at from a different point of view, my rocker fat skis (Bluehouse Shoots & Salomon El Dictators) have mainly been something with a flat tail & slight early rise rocker. That is why I asked on this thread to get a different point of view, from those who ridden have them over the past couple years.

[gaijin]

Good point, I did not think about it that way, in some some way it looked like a park mounting. Maybe I'm looking at from a different point of view, my rocker fat skis (Bluehouse Shoots & Salomon El Dictators) have mainly been something with a flat tail & slight early rise rocker. That is why I asked on this thread to get a different point of view, from those who ridden have them over the past couple years.

I think you should listen to the builder. They've been having this conversation for a long time.

Another thing to think about- The Ren is already in its sweet spot in its neutral state. Traditionally cambered skis flex into that sweet spot with speed and as speed picks up, like all skis, the sweet spot dies and the ski caves. (The sweet spot is where speed and turn shape match.)

That range of effective-sweet-spot is higher on the speed dial than traditionally cambered skis. Traditionally, (Shoots, Dicts) you need your shin just to instigate turns and eventually the sweet spot comes alive.

You won't even start driving the Ren until you're hauling ass and turns matter. Do you really want to be on your shins at that point? Shins count at the beginning of a turn. The ren has no beginning. It goes from "This is boring- go faster." to "This is it." to "It's still there and I'm ready to shut it down."

The bonus is it's so easy to shut down and return to neutral.

[Altaholic]

I think you should listen to the builder. They've been having this conversation for a long time.

Another thing to think about- The Ren is already in its sweet spot in its neutral state. Traditionally cambered skis flex into that sweet spot with speed and as speed picks up, like all skis, the sweet spot dies and the ski caves. (The sweet spot is where speed and turn shape match.)

That range of effective-sweet-spot is higher on the speed dial than traditionally cambered skis. Traditionally, (Shoots, Dicts) you need your shin just to instigate turns and eventually the sweet spot comes alive.

You won't even start driving the Ren until you're hauling ass and turns matter. Do you really want to be on your shins at that point? Shins count at the beginning of a turn. The ren has no beginning. It goes from "This is boring- go faster." to "This is it." to "It's still there and I'm ready to shut it down."

The bonus is it's so easy to shut down and return to neutral.

Sounds good. I knew the skis were solid & awesome, just wanted input from others who had them. I just wanted to be sure before I mounted them up.
I knew they would ski different than my other everyday fat ski skis, I guess these will be sweet pow day/slackcountry skis keeping them closer to the recommended mounting spot.

[kc_7777]

Went for a little hike at Baker today.

Cochise AT Pro boots + Sollyfits/Radicals + new 186 '12/13 Owl Rens. Mounted 87cm from tail.

This was the maiden voyage for the Rens. Only skiied for a bit after a shortish hike up, and not that fast.....made some turns and little jumps in crappy, soft wet pow.....but the Rens got me pretty excited. Can't wait to get them in real snow and open them up.

Also my first time hiking with Dynafits. Way better than Barons or MFDs. Really happy with the Sollyfits!

This season is taking its time to get going.

K