How Do High DIN Bindings Relate to Knee Injuries?

[Darkside]

Not being able to ski has given me a lot of time to think...probably not a good thing.

So this question is: If you're involved in a backwards twisting fall, does your DIN setting matter? From what I know, it seems that no matter what, bindings just won't release in this instance(except maybe Lines). So whether you had your DIN at 3 or 13, aren't you just as likely to not release and to tweak your knee?

[AltaPowderDaze]

line and tyrolia both have upward pressure releases for this reason. i'd assume that if you twisted enough on a low toe setting you'd be more likely to come out than on a high one.

i know you can turn the upward releases on/off on the tyrolia. don't know about line.

edit: clarification-- when twisting on a toe piece in a regular alpine binding you should be more apt to come out when on a lower din. in the fall you described, it would depend on where the pressure was on the binding. if you're lucky, the twisting will get it before the upward does.

[hucksquaw]

most bindings have toe peices that allow you to release in this type of fall, this didnt used to be the case but now it is. and some allow you to turn this type of release on or off. however in this case DIN does matter.

[Darkside]

most bindings have toe peices that allow you to release in this type of fall, this didnt used to be the case but now it is. and some allow you to turn this type of release on or off. however in this case DIN does matter.

Most bindings have upward releasing toe pieces? I myself am somewhat of a tech JONG, but that seems fishy to me.

[BakerBoy]

Fischer/Tyrolia race bindings don't have upward toe release, but do have a pivoting heal piece (in theory, similar to a Look/Rossi turntable) that is supposed to help release in odd falls, like forward and backward twisting ones.

[hucksquaw]

hey darkside it only seems fishy to you b/c you dont know what your talking about! im a former tech and racer, sponsored by atomic, so im not an idiot when it comes to these subjects. companies have developed bindings (not all their models) that release in these types of falls b/c they didnt used to have the tech. and people were getting injured.

[Darkside]

hey darkside it only seems fishy to you b/c you dont know what your talking about! im a former tech and racer, sponsored by atomic, so im not an idiot when it comes to these subjects. companies have developed bindings (not all their models) that release in these types of falls b/c they didnt used to have the tech. and people were getting injured.

You are a fucking idiot. That is it. Get the fuck out of here, and stay out. Actually, PM me with you address, and I'll come kick your ass.

[hucksquaw]

ya ok. way to come back on that one. you cant even justify why im an idiot because your too fuckin stupid. and keep telling yourself that you can kick my ass.

[AltaPowderDaze]

Fischer/Tyrolia race bindings don't have upward toe release, but do have a pivoting heal piece (in theory, similar to a Look/Rossi turntable) that is supposed to help release in odd falls, like forward and backward twisting ones.

i forgot that he said high din. the tyrolia demos and some of the lower din binders they make do have the upward release.

i don't want to have an acl injury, but it would seem that some of the counter measures binding companies use (upward release) would be counter productive for hard chargers that huck. you can't stick em all. sometimes you end up back slapping and want to stay in the binding.

[Darkside]

ya ok. way to come back on that one. you cant even justify why im an idiot because your too fuckin stupid. and keep telling yourself that you can kick my ass.

"Oh, look at me, I'm sponsored by a company that makes shitty bindings!" You're an idiot mostly because when I asked a question(s), you for some reason decided to start talking shit. Also, I looked at all of the major binding manufacturers websites and only Tyrolia and Marker claim that their bindings release upwards, even though BakerBoy (who's opinion I can respect) says they don't. In actuality, it looks like those toepieces rely on mostly side pressure (the Marker page says that the boot has to move laterally before it will release upwards, and even then it's not certain).
Obviously you're afraid that I would kick your ass, otherwise I'd have your address and be at your fucking door right now. :knock knock:

[hucksquaw]

actually they dont make shitty bindings and they probably have the most sophisticated binding manufactured this year. do you get all your info online? maybe thats why your so fuckin stupid when it comes to skiing. not every component of a manufactured product is listed on a co. site because most people, including yourself, wont understand what theyre talking about.

[Darkside]

actually they dont make shitty bindings and they probably have the most sophisticated binding manufactured this year. do you get all your info online? maybe thats why your so fuckin stupid when it comes to skiing. not every component of a manufactured product is listed on a co. site because most people, including yourself, wont understand what theyre talking about.

If you can explain how Atomic bindings toepieces release upwards, I'm sure I'll understand it.

[Dromond]

[CaddyDaddy77]

Beyond the pissing contest, while some are still squatting to get the job done....


Salomon uses their spheric toe piece to weight the actual AFD in a backward twisting fall. This in turn is designed to release the toe wings in correlation to the side where the downward pressure is applied. From what I understand, it is correspondant to the DIN.
Marker uses their Biometric release, to release upwards but I'm not sure if it is corresponding to the DIN setting.

As mentioned lots of the greens etc., don't have the same toes or the same releases as the normal production models.


BTW, integration of circutry does not make a superior binding.
One of these years it would be nice if Atomic addressed the weight problem.

[hucksquaw]

well maybe you should check atomics site again b/c it does say their bindings release backwards.. dumbass

[Darkside]

Beyond the pissing contest, while some are still squatting to get the job done....


Salomon uses their spheric toe piece to weight the actual AFD in a backward twisting fall. This in turn is designed to release the toe wings in correlation to the side where the downward pressure is applied. From what I understand, it is correspondant to the DIN.
Marker uses their Biometric release, to release upwards but I'm not sure if it is corresponding to the DIN setting.

As mentioned lots of the greens etc., don't have the same toes or the same releases as the normal production models.


BTW, integration of circutry does not make a superior binding.
One of these years it would be nice if Atomic addressed the weight problem.

Thank you for an actual response. It sounds to me like the term "upwards release" is not quite accurate, as it is in actuality a lateral release initiated by upwards pressure?

Oh, and I'm hoping that hucksquaw can convince me to buy some $1000 bindings.

[The AD]

If you can explain how Atomic bindings toepieces release upwards, I'm sure I'll understand it.

But didn't you say a "backward TWISTING fall?" Won't the twisting cause a torque in the toe piece which should cause a release? I know fuck-all about bindings, but this seems logical to me.

[AltaPowderDaze]

But didn't you say a "backward TWISTING fall?" Won't the twisting cause a torque in the toe piece which should cause a release?

not on din 18. high dins 12+ take either a lot weight or a lot of torque.

[hucksquaw]

who said you had to buy them, i just said they had superior technology. and word for word on the atomic site says the binding has "backward release" thats what the technological component is called.

[Darkside]

But didn't you say a "backward TWISTING fall?" Won't the twisting cause a torque in the toe piece which should cause a release?

Well, I think the operative word is should. It seems like if that was the case, there wouldn't be any injuries related to these type of falls, and it wouldn't be such an issue that companies are developing new technologies (i.e. Line) to try and solve it. Not saying you're not right, just thinking outloud.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Without getting too technical the Salomon weights the AFD and releases laterally.
I think the Marker does rthe same general thing but with the weight being displaced over the top of the toe of the boot, the center piece that is unique to Marker toes.

Either way, yes the idea is to let the binding release laterally, when there is not enough torque to normally release the boot form the system when there is a backward twisting fall. The reason being the force is generally applied in a pivot manner across the horizontal access, instead of straight across the same access. Or, that the force is going down more than out because your in the backseat trying to correct it, and your knee either makes a nasty pop or doesn't.

Oh, and wait until you have to replace the nifty little battery in your $1,000 binding, it has to be soldered in, wonder what that will cost.

[AltaPowderDaze]

just figured out what all this animosity is about. here is where the chip on the shoulder came from.

[hucksquaw]

if youve got the money to buy $1,000 bindings you should have the $$ to replace the battery

[Darkside]

if youve got the money to buy $1,000 bindings you should have the $$ to replace the battery

The pearls of wisdom keep coming.

[BakerBoy]

Without getting too technical the Salomon weights the AFD and releases laterally.
I think the Marker does rthe same general thing but with the weight being displaced over the top of the toe of the boot, the center piece that is unique to Marker toes.

Either way, yes the idea is to let the binding release laterally, when there is not enough torque to normally release the boot form the system when there is a backward twisting fall. The reason being the force is generally applied in a pivot manner across the horizontal access, instead of straight across the same access. Or, that the force is going down more than out because your in the backseat trying to correct it, and your knee either makes a nasty pop or doesn't.

Oh, and wait until you have to replace the nifty little battery in your $1,000 binding, it has to be soldered in, wonder what that will cost.

This is the main premise behind Fischer/Tyrolia race bindings as well. I haven't looked at any of the non-race ones lately, since I only ski on the Fischer FR17s... The AFD is not teflon, but rather a piece of treaded rubber on a series of rollers that mechanically pushes the toe laterally out of the toepiece in a twisting fall. This, coupled with the laterally releasing heel piece, is supposed to offer more protection, since the static teflon AFD of the Salomon's can get unweighted during a backward twisting fall and not function properly. They definitely do not have "true" upward release, which is something that the Salomons (and the Look/Rossi race bindings with the pedastal toes) are closer to with their pedastal toe design, but the as somebody mentioned, the last thing I want while charging is a low elasticity binding that will release upward from the toe === MARKER.

...I ski for Fischer...