Ahh so where do you think we are.

[dubu]

Ok, so witnessing the election, what stage do you think people are. The local NPR station clearly was in bargaining, I saw denial on tues night. I think we are getting to anger.... which should be fun.. I think some members here are definitely at that point..

[mrw]

I can't vote. Joy and euphoria are missing from the list

[cmsummit]

all of the above?

[KQ]

I can't vote. Joy and euphoria are missing from the list

I am seriously curious - please tell me how you have seen your life and the lives of your family and community improve during the last four years. I want concrete examples of ppls lives being enriched - ppl you know. If you think it's just stayed steady, but that is a good thing, please state that also.

I DO NOT what hypotheticals and "what ifs" just the facts and please try to be honest.

[Viva]

Last night a 25 year old server at my local brewpub said to me:

"!VIVA!, we need an assassin."

As far as she's concerned, my money's on angry.

[1080Rider]

Seriously, this shit is old. People on this board are acting like they've lost a family member. If you're so wrapped up in you party's flag then I feel sorry for you.

KQ- I think your question is a valid one. I too think this is a proper way to evaluate an administration. I would venture to guess that I'm either equal or possibly in a worse position than I was 4 yrs. ago (a caveat though is that any worse position I'm in is from LOCAL politicians and not from a national stage). When I looked at the two viable choices I ultimately rejected both. I honestly did not feel either one would improve my position. I voted for a party that I knew would not win but one that may improve my position if elected. It should be noted that I had this luxury since western washington would make my mind up for me on a presidential scale. I think this might also have been close to the analysis that most American's went through.

I said months ago that Kerry would lose. His "I'm not bush" platform gave people NO basis to believe they would be better off in 4 years (the liberals here won't beleive that- but its true, indipendent voters didn't see anything from Kerry to sway them). I think people on this board (who, I might add are hardly looking at the election objectively) are reading WAY too much into the election results. All this "I'm embarassed to be american," "we've proved we're idiots," "I'm moving to cuba" bullshit overstates the outcome. Many people voted for bush not because they approve of his actions/messages but because the didn't know what the fuck Kerry would do. Maybe in this case, people felt more comfortable w/ where they were at than going w/ the unknown.

[mr_gyptian]

Where is the "Sticky, Broken, and Confused" option.

Pearl Street in Boulder looks like Jonestown right now. Just a bunch of blank 1000 yard stares.

I thought you people would be used to it by now.

You should have your next convention at Wrigley Field so you have some people to cry in your beer with.

[schuss]

I've accepted it and moved on, but I'm still angry. I'm ready for the midterms already. 1080 raises a good point though, how many of you know your local candidates? And if not, why do you not? It amazes me that most of the people on the ballot are complete strangers to someone, despite the fact that they can pick up a phone book and call them at home about their views.

[optics]

You should have your next convention at Wrigley Field so you have some people to cry in your beer with.

Or, you could just come to pretty much any city on the west coast.
Or New England.

[mr_gyptian]

didn't they try that?

Oh, and not to MMQB this, but that is one of the Dem's biggest problems.

I really can't believe all the attention paid to Kerry's loss.

The dem's got alley whipped in Congress.

supreme court nominations are going to be a snap.

[mrw]

I am seriously curious - please tell me how you have seen your life and the lives of your family and community improve during the last four years. I want concrete examples of ppls lives being enriched - ppl you know. If you think it's just stayed steady, but that is a good thing, please state that also.

I DO NOT what hypotheticals and "what ifs" just the facts and please try to be honest.

First, welcome back

In the last 4 years, I have seen my business grow by at least 50%, my real estate holdings have increased in value so much that I sold off something and bought a beach house for cash and with a little luck, I will be semi retired within the next 4 years. Capitalism works. Bush's tax cut did it's job. I see people investing in their homes, taking advantage of low interest rates to move up or add additions to the homes they are in.
Someone in my family was diagnosed with cancer and recieved instant treatment and surgery with no waiting for tests or to see a doctor. They went to the doctor that they knew would be the best for them and is today cancer free. My own father went to his doctor and on a hunch, the doctor sent him for some VERY expensive tests which uncovered a heart condition that could very well have killed him if left undiagnosed.NONE of that would have played uot as well if the federal government was running health care.
Last but not least, my children will know a future of limitless possibilities living in a country with limitless growth. With luck, this Ponzi scam called social security will be a dim memory and they will have hefty retirement funds at an early age. Hopefully, this is a sign that the nanny state is being dismantled.

[natty dread]

supreme court nominations are going to be a snap.

Maybe. But the scalia/thomas lovers still need 60 votes to break a fillibuster.

[cololi]

I am seriously curious - please tell me how you have seen your life and the lives of your family and community improve during the last four years. I want concrete examples of ppls lives being enriched - ppl you know. If you think it's just stayed steady, but that is a good thing, please state that also.

I DO NOT what hypotheticals and "what ifs" just the facts and please try to be honest.

I have tried to stay out of the political threads, but KQ's question is almost the same question that I discussed with my mother on Tuesday night. I must preface my comments with the following: my family, including extended, generational, etc, have been heavily involved with politics in Utah forever (not literally, but pretty much since the late 1800's). We are strongly oriented to the Democratic Party. I voted for a repub (state attorney general) for the first time in my life on Tuesday. Members of my family have held public office, held positons within the party at the local, state, and national level, have run several campaigns, and worked for Governors, Senators, and Congressman.

Some members of my family received unprecedented tax refunds the last few years. These are family members who are in the highest tax bracket. Every single one of them says that they have made more money since Bush was in office then they did in the previous 8 years. Being democrats, they cannot conceive having these tax breaks when there are people who cannot afford to provide for their kids, to see a doctor, to get prescription drugs, etc. They don't need to look far to see how the economy impacts low and moderate income families, many of their children (my cousins) have young families and struggle to make ends meet. And yes, the tax refunds have been donated to various charities, schools, etc. So, I guess, there is an example of how someone could be better off, but society as a whole, is not better off (my own opinion)

[KQ]

Last but not least, my children will know a future of limitless possibilities living in a country with limitless growth.

Let's hope they aren't gay........

Seriously, great for you guys. I wish we were living under the same colored sky.

My friends and family have not been so lucky. I've watched friends lose jobs, be unable to get health care or reasonably priced perscriptions and parents have to supply their children with school supplies because the schools can't. The most tragic of all are the lives of loved ones lost in Iraq.

As I said before - where you stand depends on where you sit.

[dubu]

I said months ago that Kerry would lose. His "I'm not bush" platform gave people NO basis to believe they would be better off in 4 years (the liberals here won't beleive that- but its true, indipendent voters didn't see anything from Kerry to sway them). I think people on this board (who, I might add are hardly looking at the election objectively) are reading WAY too much into the election results. All this "I'm embarassed to be american," "we've proved we're idiots," "I'm moving to cuba" bullshit overstates the outcome. Many people voted for bush not because they approve of his actions/messages but because the didn't know what the fuck Kerry would do. Maybe in this case, people felt more comfortable w/ where they were at than going w/ the unknown.

Well said, I agree 100%.

I really hope this election was a good message for all politicians, run your own platform.

Politicians your job is to describe what you are going to do and how you are going to do it. It is the voters responsibility to evaluate your plans and decide which candidate meshes with the direction he or she wants the government to take. To me Mr. Kerry did not define what his plans were, yes I have done research, at best he give me some lofty idealistic plans which in my opinion were not realistic. In the end I had no idea what Kerry would have actually accomplished while in office.

[optics]

Let's hope they aren't gay.........

Let's also hope they don't care about the deficit they inherit.

[Dexter Rutecki]

All this "I'm embarassed to be american," "we've proved we're idiots," "I'm moving to cuba" bullshit overstates the outcome.

Only if you have no idea who was elected. If you've paid any attention to this guy at all, you have to be embarassed. The citizens of any other country led by such an idiot would (I hope) feel the same.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Someone in my family was diagnosed with cancer and recieved instant treatment and surgery with no waiting for tests or to see a doctor. They went to the doctor that they knew would be the best for them and is today cancer free. My own father went to his doctor and on a hunch, the doctor sent him for some VERY expensive tests which uncovered a heart condition that could very well have killed him if left undiagnosed.NONE of that would have played uot as well if the federal government was running health care.

Bullshit. For 40 million people without health insurance your story might have a much different, sadder ending. If the federal government was running health care we wouldn't be enriching thousands of different insurance companies at our own expense.

[mrw]

parents have to supply their children with school supplies because the schools can't. The most tragic of all are the lives of loved ones lost in Iraq.

Yet another reason why the Federal Government should not be involved in the education process. This should be solely the provence of the State Government. Billions are lost to bureaucracy overhead that should be going direcly to the schools. The smaller the government the better the accountability.
I too mourn the lives lost in Iraq and Afganistan I do believe we are involved in a war and it's not a fight we picked.We can fight it there or here but fight it we must.My theory is that the increase in violence we have seen in Iraq was the terroists attempt to unseat the President. I believe they will be re-evaluating their actions now that they know America has stood firm

[Viva]

Let's also hope they don't care about the deficit they inherit.

mrw's kids apparently are going to be well off, so they won't have to worry about such trivialities. Remember, capitalism works! Really. But how well it works depends a lot on the extent of government corruption.

[optics]

We can fight it there or here but fight it we must.

You're not one of those idiots who parrots the talking points, are you? Say it ain't so.

You really think the terrorists can't do both?

You think they can't spare another 20 guys to go on a field trip?

I agree we need to fight it, but it should start here. We're swatting flies while the window's open.

[KQ]

Yet another reason why the Federal Government should not be involved in the education process. This should be solely the provence of the State Government. Billions are lost to bureaucracy overhead that should be going direcly to the schools.

George Bush's "leave no child behind" is not working.

The smaller the government the better the accountability.

The present day GOP is bigger than ever - what happened to their platform of less government?

I too mourn the lives lost in Iraq and Afganistan I do believe we are involved in a war and it's not a fight we picked.We can fight it there or here but fight it we must.My theory is that the increase in violence we have seen in Iraq was the terroists attempt to unseat the President. I believe they will be re-evaluating their actions now that they know America has stood firm

Will you be joining up? Will you send your children? Your brother? Your wife?

I had my gas fireplace worked on the other day - the repair guy insisted on engaging me in a political discussion. His view was "Ppl have to die. It's a war and they must sacrifice their lives for us just like WWII" He was 31yo, single with no dependents. I asked him why he got to decide ppl had to die when he sat here at home - he said it wasn't his choice.

Okay - well thanks for the answers but there really aren't any answers are there? There are just "theories" and "opinions." The proof will be in the pudding and for that all we can do is wait and hope for the best.

[schuss]

the funny thing is that if anyone had read kerry's health plan they'd know that it was simply designed to make things cheaper and more manageable, not give up control or choice. It was market based. Also there was an interesting chart in the paper today with a comparison of economic benchmarks of presidents since LBJ I think. Dems outperformed repubs in everything but inflation, and that was just due to the jimmy carter stagflation stuff during the oil crisis. If you truly believe the GOP will shrink the government and be better for the economy, you haven't been paying much attention.

[joshbu]

KQ:

It's a losing argument with most rich people these days because our communities have become so insular that they are utterly clueless about the way the other 90% of the population lives. They haven't been without health care int he last few years, so they have no idea how much that medical care costs. They haven't been out of work recently, so they have no idea how long it takes to get a job. They have assets and savings accounts, so they've never worried about where the money is going to come from to pay the bills.

But hey, the rich are better than all of the people who don't have jobs right? They worked "hard." Anyone who can't make ends meet in this society must be a loser. Just a free loader. Probably on drugs. And having premarital sex. And gay. God hates them. Jesus himself said: the rich will inherit the earth," right? "Blessed are thou if thou has a summer home?" "Blessed are thou if you think everyone who is poor is a loser."

[natty dread]

We can fight it there or here

That is such a crock of shit.