We are the bastards the rest of the world thinks we are

[Free Range Lobster]

I don't know. I really don't see how gay marriage affects non-gays one bit.

It goes deeper than just being gay, it has mostly to do with rights and abilities to get the same financial and insurance benefits that normal married couples get, and its just not fair that you have to be straight and married to get that.

[rip]

I can't believe what happened, I thought the young voters were gonna swing it, but the numbers are the same for the last election.

I've already listened to the decline like 5 times, it rings so true today


And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
Why go against tradition when we can
Admit defeat, live in decline
Be the victim of our own design
The status quo, built on suspect
Why would anyone stick out their neck?

[Sublime]

I am sad. Nothing more it say it's going to be a grim tough 4 years, we are going to have to watch everymove he makes. Be smart and exercise our weaning right to protest against his actions. If we are careful he won't get away with taking our rights.


I am sad to be an American it's coming to be everything the world hates.

[bigsugar]

Why would a skiier run to Tijuana?

I dunno, I wanted to use Tijuana in a sentence. There, I did it again.

Point is, we should not be ashamed of our country because 51 or 52 or whatever percent of us who bothered to show up at the polls decided fllubdub A was better than flubdub B. The world will think of us what it will; Kerry being president was not going to change that. It will take drastic change to garner more respect overseas......and to make things right hereat home. kerry was not the man for that job.......he might have stopped the bleeding but the wound would still be there.

[natty dread]

As depressing as having this dumbfuck puppet of the religious right/extraction industries in office for another 4 years will be, and as much as I'd like the dems in congress to obstruct and fillibuster every repub nomination and proposal that comes up for a vote, I say fuck it--let the right wingers have their way with the economy, foreign affairs, the courts, the environment. We will get what we deserve. Sometimes, in life and politics, you've got to hit rock bottom before you wake up.

Osama Bin Laden is the real winner in this election.

[milton]

I thought the younger voters would help this time around too....

- SIOBHAN McDONOUGH, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, November 2, 2004

(11-02) 21:39 PST WASHINGTON (AP) --

This was not the breakout year for young voters that some had anticipated.

Fewer than one in 10 voters Tuesday were 18 to 24, about the same proportion of the electorate as in 2000, exit polls indicated. Still, with voter turnout expected to be higher overall, more young people appeared to have come out.

A vigorous push on college campuses by both parties and national mobilization drives had raised expectations that 2004 would be the year of the youth vote.

Exit polls indicated that young people who did vote were strongly supporting Democrat John Kerry over President Bush, while they were evenly split between Bush and Democrat Al Gore four years ago.

The exit polls were conducted for The Associated Press by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International.

First-time voters made up about 10 percent of the electorate, about the same as in 2000, and they favored Kerry. Four years ago, the group leaned toward Gore.

The economy and moral values were the top issues for young voters, with about one-fifth of those surveyed choosing each. Young people concerned about moral values strongly supported Bush, while those interested in the economy and jobs chose Kerry.

Iraq and terrorism were next on the list -- with Kerry winning the Iraq vote and Bush taking the terrorism group.

"It's definitely the war," said Eliana Deutsch, 20, of San Diego, explaining why she came out. "People see these soldiers who are 18 and don't have an education, and they're over there dying. It's really sad that that (the military) is their best option."

Sarah White, 18, a North Palm Beach high school student in Florida who was excited about voting for the first time, went for Bush, saying, "I agree with a lot of what he stands for."

Jay Strell, a spokesman for Rock the Vote, a campaign targeting 18- to 25-year-olds, said the voter turnout among young people was impressive this year.

"The issues at stake in this election -- the war in Iraq, the prospect, however remote, of a draft, the economy -- are all reasons more young people came out to vote this election, " he said. "They are clearly being more impacted by the issues at stake in this election."


Link to article

[splat]

This thread fucking sucks!!! Delete this bullshit now.

I'm sorry, 1080, you'll have to give Bush another year or two before you can turn us in for speaking our minds.

[str8line]

Could not agree with you more... It goes to show that the majority of Americans are dumb and un-educated, or at the very least, completely mis-guided. Dont come bitching to me about your $240 per month health care plan, or the possible scenerio of an overturned Roe vs Wade.

A lot of people voted for Bush because he is an incumbant, and feel like they are better off not having change... Most voted for him due to "The War On Terror". Well... when your foreign policies are such as his, and you are the un-welcomed and un-justly sefl-pronounced POLICE OF THE WORLD, you better have a strong army... because the whole world hates you and wants to kick your ass!

I know a lot of you are also world travelers, and I am sure most of you while in a different country ( at least should be) emberrassed to be an American.

We wont even get in to the enviroment.... There isnt even a debate there.

Now that the world knows that over half of voting Americans support our "leader" in his shiting on the world... I believe there will be MORE retaliations and terror inflicted on us than there would have been had we shown the world we were concerned about our image and future, by voting for a new and better President.

Bush is the and we are all riding his coat tails down.

So true knockneed. Bush never seems to miss an oppurtunity to "shit" on the world and its future. So sad that we can't lead by example. I'm excited to see what Putin and the rest of the fucked up nations of the world have in store. I think it's safe to say that we won't be able to call them on any of it because it would be like the pot calling the kettle black.

I too am ashamed and embarrassed KD.

But look on the bright side, Bush will now have the stress of his own Vietnam to deal with instead of Kerry being saddled with it.

Many friends of mine voted Bush and even my dad did. I am embarrassed for their near sited greed and ethnocentrism.

[1080Rider]

So you guys were relying on a group of people who think a "civic duty" is the duty to attach wings sticker and spoilers to every honda civic in the united states to win this election. I guess hind sight is 20/20, but that doesn't seem like a good strategy at any point.

[Knockneed Man]

So you guys were relying on a group of people who think a "civic duty" is the duty to attach wings sticker and spoilers to every honda civic in the united states to win this election. I guess hind sight is 20/20, but that doesn't seem like a good strategy at any point.

What did you do to better the world 1080???

[Sublime]

its time for some real world politics, economics, history, math and english.
there are some of us who have, and some that go without.
america and justice are not synonymous.
for all the fights, for all the songs, all we said.
all we have is these pictures of us.
and if it doesnt matter now then it never really did, withouth this we might as well be dead.
theyre all black and white people, and that doenst have anything to do with us.
after all these years its still an arms race, after all these years they still dont fucking get it.
lives and cultures matter more than capitalist interest.
its the cia; its the fbi; the imf, from hmo's to mtv. fuck you.
for all the fights, for all the songs, all we said.
all we have is these pictures of us.
and if it doesnt matter now then it never really did, without this we might as well be dead.
when you are so hungry that youd believe anything.
theyre selling you the politics of starving.
what the fuck does that mean to us.

[Harry Dunne]

My tears are for you, too, my friend. My tears are for America. This is not sour grapes; I don't route for politicians as if they were a sports team. I honestly fear for the future. The war with Iran will be our most costly yet. That's not a typo.

Save your tears. I can respect your views and even sympathize with your disappointment, but don't fucking call me a bastard. "We" are not bastards, and "we" DO NOT "deserve" anything that happens. And no, Knockneed, everyone who voted for Bush is not dumb, "un-educated," or misguided. I guess, by definition, you are smarter, more educated, and more divinely enlightened than anyone who voted for Bush. It is exactly this fucking arrogant, self-aggrandizing attitude that makes people stop looking at issues and start saying This is a goddamn DEMOCRACY. Don't be ashamed of your country, be ashamed of yourself for this post. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit, this is emabarrasing.

[1080Rider]

I'm sorry, 1080, you'll have to give Bush another year or two before you can turn us in for speaking our minds.

I don't care if you speak your mind but the fucking whinning is annoying. This country was based on the belief that anyone can be anything they want. You need to bust your ass and stand up for what you believe. You have the freedom to do that and hopefully make changes. This country was ripped in two many years ago. We set aside out differences to make this the greatest county on earth. This election has been polarizing but nobody died over it, the country will be stronger in the future over these issues.

The thing is, this pathetic, "poor us" bullshit attitude held by most liberals is what brings this country down WAY more than anything any president could do. This fucking shitty attitude lets people give up. It gives them an out, an excuse, to not take responsibility for anything. That's the thing liberals either can't see or won't admit. The things wrong w/ this country all rest in the lap of the american liberal. Stop the sniveling and get over it...

[The Reverend Floater]

I was going to put this in an email to KD and some others but it turned into this massive rant that lost all coherency, so I knew this was the perfect place to put it. Thanks for bearing with me!

I just wanted to say that I feel your pain.... I am so horribly ashamed and embarassed right now that I've been visiting Canadian imigration sites just because. It makes me sad to know just how apathetic, disconnected and ingnorant the vast majority of Amoricans are.

Most people live their lives in a mundane existence of redudancy through their adherence to the sociological blueprint that is American life. They follow the plan minute for minute, dollar for dollar, vote for vote until they've expended their lives marching down this road to golfy retirement, RV's, grandkids and safe complacency. When someone strays from this path--crumples up the blueprint and burns it by devoting their life to a passion, to travel, to self exploration or even to others, the perpetrator is usually branded as "crazy" or "out there" or "irresponsible."

But what exactly is crazy?

Following someone else's paved sidewalk to the cafeteria of mass sedation or enjoying a healthy dose of sociopathy by blazing your own? Living life in the cradle of safety in numbers and and never feeling pain, immediate fear, dire exertion and primordial challenge or pushing yourself in any number of ways and really experiencing what it is to be human, to know your own mental, emotional and physical limits. What's more irresponsible--adhering to your responsibility to what you've been told all your life by so many people to do or choosing to recognize a responsibility to yourself, to your passions and callings and to what your very being tells you do?

It's this mentality and corresponding lack of socio-inspection that has become the norm. It's the subscription to an unchallenged apathy that keeps people on the sidewalk and prevents them from considering crossing the street to the unpaved, unexplored forest that never goes away. And to me it's the same animal that fuels our current mentality: Fear of change, fear of introspection and fear of a real examination of the world in which we live. It's so much easier, safer and socially nondescript to pull the lever on that lazyboy, dial Pizza Hut for the tripple decker meat loaded cardiac bomb and suck in fatburning patch commercials than it is to challenge ideals and truly examine the world that immediately surrounds you.

Yeah, I write this in a feeble attempt to vent my disbelief of yesterday's election. It's true...had Kerry won, I probably wouldn't be neck deep in this morass of frustration and disgust. So I suppose it's a good thing, in a way--Defeat of ideals somehow inspires more of what I cherrish and hold as truly necessary: Opening my eyes and really looking around at what's going on where we live and how we live.

I hope you guys aren't as frustrated as I am. Sorry to bang this out on you but I just had to get it off my chest.

Cheers

[Sublime]

Double post.

[kush1]

So you guys were relying on a group of people who think a "civic duty" is the duty to attach wings sticker and spoilers to every honda civic in the united states to win this election. I guess hind sight is 20/20, but that doesn't seem like a good strategy at any point.

I am one of those people you speak of in you post, but i drove 2 1/2 hours to vote. I also know they should have went for the un-educated imbread rednecks of the south, insted. Seems to have worked for this guy in 2 elections now..........

[Sublime]

I am ashamed of my country. Being American downright sucks and I am ashamed to be American

Here comes the draft folks. Oh yeah I still haven't sent in my draft card. Civil disobedience motherfuckers.

[1080Rider]

damn, I got 3 for the price of 1...

[bigsugar]

[QUOTE=Sublime]I am ashamed of my country. Being American downright sucks and I am ashamed to be American

yeah, fuck this shit, I'm moving to Somalia


C'mon dude, take a deep breath and count to ten.

[elevens]

What scares me the most about this election (and so much scares me about Bush) is that in the next 4 years a few Supreme Court Judges will retire and Bush will nominate his "moral agenda - higher calling" judges which are life long appointments. Not to mention they will have an easier timing passing now due to the republicans controlling both houses.

Bush has made it very clear regarding his "moral" views and he seems to forget or doesn't care about that famous ruling our founding fathers created called seperation of church and state.

elevens

[Sublime]

I am one of those people you speak of in you post, but i drove 2 1/2 hours to vote. I also know they should have went for the un-educated imbread rednecks of the south, insted. Seems to have worked for this guy in 2 elections now..........

I hate the south. My Chinese girlfreind went on a family trip there a few years back. She said the whole thing was horrible due to the fact that people stared constantly and gave her scary looks constantly. Ignorance and racism has deep deep roots in the south no way around that.

[Knockneed Man]

And no, Knockneed, everyone who voted for Bush is not dumb, "un-educated," or misguided. I guess, by definition, you are smarter, more educated, and more divinely enlightened than anyone who voted for Bush.

Im not saying I have a higher IQ... I believe I did however spend more time learning the issues at hand than a lot of folks voting for Bush. If my educating myself on the issues before I make a decesion is by "definition" arrogant, as you say... then FKNA!

[zion zig zag]

I hate the south. My Chinese girlfreind went on a family trip there a few years back. She said the whole thing was horrible due to the fact that people stared constantly and gave her scary looks constantly. Ignorance and racism has deep deep roots in the south no way around that.

Can somebody please put the kids to bed so that the grownups can talk now?

[1080Rider]

two posts for the price of one... cool!

[str8line]

Save your tears. I can respect your views and even sympathize with your disappointment, but don't fucking call me a bastard. "We" are not bastards, and "we" DO NOT "deserve" anything that happens. And no, Knockneed, everyone who voted for Bush is not dumb, "un-educated," or misguided. I guess, by definition, you are smarter, more educated, and more divinely enlightened than anyone who voted for Bush. It is exactly this fucking arrogant, self-aggrandizing attitude that makes people stop looking at issues and start saying This is a goddamn DEMOCRACY. Don't be ashamed of your country, be ashamed of yourself for this post. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit, this is emabarrasing.

Hi Harry,

Maybe not dumb, "uneducated", or misguided. But at least short-sighted, greedy, and selfish.

Kerry's upside might not have been huge, but Bush's downside is huge. Just ask your children or grandchildren in 50 years when they think the world could have taken a path toward sustainability but instead chose spiraling self servitude. My bet is that the year 2000 comes up. America's role cannot be overstated.